Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

Lula said:

How come you played so good? It can not only be because you Opened with your backhand i think.

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Ha, not just that.

Against the chopper, I beat him earlier in the season and had confidence to keep looping (rather than loop, push, loop, push).

Against the consistent looper, when I lost to him 3-1 earlier in the year, I didn't do a lot. He got in first, I went back and started blocking/lobbing away from the table, and he was too consistent.

This time, I tried to be more aggressive - He still got in first a lot of the time, but I didn't retreat as far as I usually do, and attacked his loops more.

Against the server, he usually tries to dig big pushes long to my backhand, and I used to just push them back before he'd run around on his forehand and attack.

This time I went for it a bit more on the backhand, which caught him off guard 5 or 6 times - Just enough to stay ahead in most of the games!

It's a thinkers game for sure

NDH said:

Ha, not just that.

Against the chopper, I beat him earlier in the season and had confidence to keep looping (rather than loop, push, loop, push).

Against the consistent looper, when I lost to him 3-1 earlier in the year, I didn't do a lot. He got in first, I went back and started blocking/lobbing away from the table, and he was too consistent.

This time, I tried to be more aggressive - He still got in first a lot of the time, but I didn't retreat as far as I usually do, and attacked his loops more.

Against the server, he usually tries to dig big pushes long to my backhand, and I used to just push them back before he'd run around on his forehand and attack.

This time I went for it a bit more on the backhand, which caught him off guard 5 or 6 times - Just enough to stay ahead in most of the games!

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Yesterday I had my first pratice after my shoulder and arm pain! Until now, the pain didn't return, so I hope it goes like this! Ofc I made a good warmup, especially in my arm and shoulder before start!

It was also my first pratice with SP on backhand(802-40 2.0 boosted), and my first thoughts about it:

What is good:

- Easy to hit and block;
- I even can do banana flicks;
- My backhand receives are much better, when opponent serves to my BH I don't need to pivot to use my FH, which makes me avoid more effort.
- They seem very easy to chop if for some reason I go more far from table, probably don't create much difficulties to opponent too;
- Easier to be "in the control" of the point. Usually I was almost never in control of the point so I could not unleash my FH entirely and with SP I feel I can prepare easier point to finish with FH.

What is bad:

- Feel that the biggest change will be in FH, I should have quicker recovery, loop closer to the table and a shorter stroke. Im confident I could improve that, my FH can adapt easily as it's a strong point that I have;
- Wish my 7 ply could be a little thicker/stiffer, P777 is around 6.1mm/6.2mm and feels a little flexy and with small sweetspot for short pips.

What I need to improve:

- Coordination between FH-BH / BH-FH, making a shorter FH stroke;
- Make my game closer to the table;
- Need to play more aggressive;
- Quicker recovery from strokes.

I think I will get better with SP, at least it will make me more aggressive and more closer to the table. For now I'm enjoying this pips, but in future I'll change it to something a bit faster, I'm thinking about Spinpips Red, as they are not much deceptive like 802-40 which I want but with an extra kick!

About the blade, I think a bit thicker would solve my problem(not for now, as it's enough to improve my BH pips stroke, but next season or so). A Clipper/Clipper CR would be a bad choice as I find it too thick and didn't have a good experience before. I thought on the following ones:

- Avalox P700(afraid it will be too thick also, it's 6.8mm);
- Nittaku Ludeack Fleet(Afraid that the glassfiber will remove the wood feeling that I have). I know it's 6.2, but the composite layers give it a bigger sweetspot and more stiffness without increasing thickness;
- Sword Tan Ruiwu(6.5mm, my favourite choice, and it's allwood and enough thick to pimples and enough flex too loop, but unfortunately I don't know how to find it).

I wish I had tried SP before, it very happy with them! But the most important, the pain didn't returned until now!

Andro CSV off+
6,5 mm
Lower throw than glassfiber.
Perfect blade for pips

Konrad Bak said:

Andro CSV off+
6,5 mm
Lower throw than glassfiber.
Perfect blade for pips

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Hi Konrad! Thanks for the advice! Isn't too flexy? And what about the sweetspot?

I had a quite entertaining evening especially as an EJ. A new lady turned up to practice and beat the crap out pretty much everyone (including some extremely high rated 13-15 year old academy players). She was probably 40 something and hadn't played for 10-15 years. Her setup was amazing. Stiga METAL Wood with Sriver. I got to try it out for a few minutes and it was so fast that I couldn't believe it. Looked up the blade online when I came home and it's quite pricy on eBay etc.

mart1nandersson said:

I had a quite entertaining evening especially as an EJ. A new lady turned up to practice and beat the crap out pretty much everyone (including some extremely high rated 13-15 year old academy players). She was probably 40 something and hadn't played for 10-15 years. Her setup was amazing. Stiga METAL Wood with Sriver. I got to try it out for a few minutes and it was so fast that I couldn't believe it. Looked up the blade online when I came home and it's quite pricy on eBay etc.

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Woow Sriver was enough for her to play like that! Never saw that blade but a team partner that already left table tennis had 2 Stiga Graphite wood, never tried it but they were old! He already retired

mart1nandersson said:

I had a quite entertaining evening especially as an EJ. A new lady turned up to practice and beat the crap out pretty much everyone (including some extremely high rated 13-15 year old academy players). She was probably 40 something and hadn't played for 10-15 years. Her setup was amazing. Stiga METAL Wood with Sriver. I got to try it out for a few minutes and it was so fast that I couldn't believe it. Looked up the blade online when I came home and it's quite pricy on eBay etc.

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This would be so cool to see on video!

whocarez said:

This would be so cool to see on video!

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Wish I had recorded it. I doubt that she will show up again as Wednesdays is pretty much some crappy old farts (including myself) and the few academy players that like to goof around with the old farts after their practice. I believe that her rubbers were speed glued as I know how Sriver plays and this was nothing like it.

mart1nandersson said:

Wish I had recorded it. I doubt that she will show up again as Wednesdays is pretty much some crappy old farts (including myself) and the few academy players that like to goof around with the old farts after their practice. I believe that her rubbers were speed glued as I know how Sriver plays and this was nothing like it.

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I was about to point out that she was likely gluing but you mentioned it.

I had an epiphany today. I have been trying to figure out how to play close to the table topspins for a while especially countertopspins. It has been a struggle as no coach or video has been able to give me good insight into how to think about it. I have tried a lot of stuff but none of it has ever felt right. Remember I don't bend my knees and I play really close to the table.

On mytt, a player was discussing backhand topspin technique and I chimed in. And then zeio chimed in and posted a video of how Wang Hao approached countertopspin on his backhand. And as someone who likes to reverse engineer his backhand technique to my forehand, it hit me. You can't spin upwards close to the table. You have to spin over to come down to bring the ball down. Someone was arguing that the follow through doesn't matter and that all that matters is how your stroke hits the ball. But I find that if I swing with the intent to come down after the stroke or in a circle not to lift but almost to make the ball curve onto the table, I can be more consistent and loop topspin close to the table better. I will experiment with this technique for a while and see how well I can master it. It has helped me see that I didnt fully grasp what I was doing on my backhand when I tried to countertopspin on my forehand but now I get it better.

@NL here is how I approach counter-topspin at the table, as you know I play close to the table as well. In both cases what matters most is timing and putting your own screen. No need for a big swing or big power in the stroke.

FH
I've been reducing my error rate recently thanks to coaching and multiball. Here is what I think the key points
- lower the body as much as possible, you will see the ball better. Given the little margin for error, its very important
- the bigger the swing, the more difficult it is, so start practising with short swing.
- try to put you own spin on the ball, don't hit hard, stay relaxed. Using good timing and the speed of the incoming ball is enough to make a fast shot. stay relaxed even at impact, try to cover the ball with a horizontal angle and just use a little bit of wrist at impact to generate extra topspin. It will make the trajectory safer if you counter with spin, the ball will fall back on the table earlier.
- keep your balance and finish with your weight on the left leg. Its easy on fast ball to lose your balance and counter just with the arm. If the incoming ball has strong spin its very important.

BH don't rush to the ball, wait for it to get into the hit zone. Lower the body while waiting but try to time it (inside the hit zone) so as to get as quickly as possible after the bounce. The earlier, the more closed the racket angle should be. Use a short stroke and the wrist, and push on the legs when doing the swing. Be relaxed during execution, and for a more advanced stroke, use the index finger for an extra feel and to put extra spin

I'd say 80% of my mistakes in FH counterloopspin is because i want to counter too hard or too early, 20% because i lose my balance because the ball is coming to my middle or too wide and i didn't adapt.

In BH, i tend to take the ball too early and the racket with an angle too open and miss

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

@NL here is how I approach counter-topspin at the table, as you know I play close to the table as well. In both cases what matters most is timing and putting your own screen. No need for a big swing or big power in the stroke.

FH
I've been reducing my error rate recently thanks to coaching and multiball. Here is what I think the key points
- lower the body as much as possible, you will see the ball better. Given the little margin for error, its very important
- the bigger the swing, the more difficult it is, so start practising with short swing.
- try to put you own spin on the ball, don't hit hard, stay relaxed. Using good timing and the speed of the incoming ball is enough to make a fast shot. stay relaxed even at impact, try to cover the ball with a horizontal angle and just use a little bit of wrist at impact to generate extra topspin. It will make the trajectory safer if you counter with spin, the ball will fall back on the table earlier.
- keep your balance and finish with your weight on the left leg. Its easy on fast ball to lose your balance and counter just with the arm. If the incoming ball has strong spin its very important.

BH don't rush to the ball, wait for it to get into the hit zone. Lower the body while waiting but try to time it (inside the hit zone) so as to get as quickly as possible after the bounce. The earlier, the more closed the racket angle should be. Use a short stroke and the wrist, and push on the legs when doing the swing. Be relaxed during execution, and for a more advanced stroke, use the index finger for an extra feel and to put extra spin

I'd say 80% of my mistakes in FH counterloopspin is because i want to counter too hard or too early, 20% because i lose my balance because the ball is coming to my middle or too wide and i didn't adapt.

In BH, i tend to take the ball too early and the racket with an angle too open and miss

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I think very few people stress the importance of finishing the stroke down. Stroke like an upside down U. Maybe people don't with their body when they are low. But I think you have to go up and down to be reliable close to the table. But I could be wrong. Of course saying low is not an option for me.

Makes sense completely, thats why its easier to counter when the sponge is harder , you don't have to be so precise of the angle .. one thing that helps for me is to do to small warm up counters a little bit away from the table .. it helps getting the feeling quickly ... when I mean small is I mean only with the "whip" from the forearm with a little waist movement .. similar to how we warm up our backhand counters ...

NextLevel said:

I had an epiphany today. I have been trying to figure out how to play close to the table topspins for a while especially countertopspins. It has been a struggle as no coach or video has been able to give me good insight into how to think about it. I have tried a lot of stuff but none of it has ever felt right. Remember I don't bend my knees and I play really close to the table.

On mytt, a player was discussing backhand topspin technique and I chimed in. And then zeio chimed in and posted a video of how Wang Hao approached countertopspin on his backhand. And as someone who likes to reverse engineer his backhand technique to my forehand, it hit me. You can't spin upwards close to the table. You have to spin over to come down to bring the ball down. Someone was arguing that the follow through doesn't matter and that all that matters is how your stroke hits the ball. But I find that if I swing with the intent to come down after the stroke or in a circle not to lift but almost to make the ball curve onto the table, I can be more consistent and loop topspin close to the table better. I will experiment with this technique for a while and see how well I can master it. It has helped me see that I didnt fully grasp what I was doing on my backhand when I tried to countertopspin on my forehand but now I get it better.

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i don't think you should finish the stroke down, but forward. so don't be too close to the table.

finishing the stroke down is more for blocking very very spinny loops and start with the racket high, you cover it. but for counter its more a horizontal swing. its more about timing the ball perfectly when it comes in your hitzone, with that closed bat angle and finishing with your weight on your left foot.

if you cannot go down too much because of your knees perhaps a wider stance would help getting low without too much pain in your knees.

Looping upward is not good against topspin. You get No power ans loose time. I think it is more common for us that are not so good that We almost do the same stroke for topspin and backspin and havethe racket in general to low. Alot of the pros have the racket very high against topspin to be able to hit over the ball and keep up because it goes so fast. Look at Kristian Karlssons bh. He has his racket very high.

I have been working alot on having the racket high and loop forward. The difference in power is really big and you become much faster.

And for the countertopspin. Many Times is is already alot of spin and power in the ball so you Do not need to Do much to make it diffixult for the opponent, the ball Will still go back fast. Very important to wait for the ball and Do a small stroke. To unsafe to a big kill stroke at hard balls. Also important to read the spin.

Like you always say to people. If you want our thoughts and help a video of your shot would be best.

Lula,

How would you replicate this stroke on the forehand side?

https://youtu.be/JilVcyc0k_E?t=2100

NextLevel said:

Lula,

How would you replicate this stroke on the forehand side?

https://youtu.be/JilVcyc0k_E?t=2100

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I am in a somewhat hurry so do i will try to answer this fast.

You want to do the same stroke in forehand?

I think the same principles apply.

Wait for the ball, Let the ball be on the racket, then do the stroke. A backswing will make it to unsafe, to hard to time.

Do a little stroke. There is already some spin and power in the ball, so you do not need a big stroke. too many of us amatuers have a passive stroke or a big kill shot when counterlooping. I think it is better to use the shot inbetween. Do a little, more safe motion and put the opponent under pressure, then make a harder shot. Little like Wang did on the first counterloop.

Adjust to the spin. If there is alot power and spin in the ball you do not need to accelerate so much on your own since there already is much in the spin. If there is a slower ball with less spin you need to accelerate more on your own and create more power and speed on your own. I heard a coach that counter from 1-10. If the opponent play 8, you only play 2. If they play 3, you play 7 hard. Maybe you can apply this.

Stay close to the table and take the ball early to put the opponent under pressure. Like blocking. Also important to stay somewhat close so you do not need to reach for the ball and extend the arm. With an extended arm you have no power left to use and less control.

I also think this shot need somewhat practice to get it correct. Maybe you can watch Oh Sang Eun, what i remember he was very good at counterlooping.

Can not come up with anymore now.

Good luck!

@NL

i have a coaching session next week, usually we do counter-topspin during multiball, so i may film it

NextLevel said:

Lula,

How would you replicate this stroke on the forehand side?

https://youtu.be/JilVcyc0k_E?t=2100

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My 2 cents......

If you imagine the stroke to be like a clock face. Your typical bog standard forehand stroke would start at 4 o clock (with your backswing), and go through to between 9 and 10 o clock (a soft upwards motion, but predominantly forwards).

A forehand loop against backspin would start around 5 o clock and accelerate through to between 10 and 11 o clock.

A forehand counter topspin, whether a big backswing or a small one would start at 3 o clock (maybe even between 3 and 2 o clock) on the backswing and follow through to 9 o clock (or if it's loaded with top spin, between 9 and 8 o clock - i.e. You are hitting over the ball to force it down).

Generally, I'd find in a typical top spin looping rally, you probably wouldn't need to hit down too much - It's almost a "3 o clock to 9 o clock" type shot.

The chap I'm playing is using Hurricane on the forehand, so the style would need to be adapted a little bit depending on the spin sensitivity of the rubber.

But if you look at his counter at 2:13 (also in slow motion afterwards so you can see better), it shows the "3 o clock to 9 o clock" type action I was talking about.

He's a little back from the table, so you'd have less time if you were close to the table - But the principal still applies.

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