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I do not think that anybody here hate China. People are pointing that IT is unfair blaming balls for the lost especially when all use the same balls
German Open 2017
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Hopefully not but there were certain opinions that leaned in that direction.
I haven't seen those comments where people here blame the ball. I know Ma Long wasn't comfortable using several different balls in a short period of time. He had a hard time adapting.
But I have to ask about ML, XX and Fzd ball misses on backspin balls. Seems that the Donic table has more "bite" making the backspin balls halt faster. I spoke to a friend who plays in the top division here in Sweden and he thinks the Donic tables are terrible. I'll dig deeper when I see him next time.
I haven't seen those comments where people here blame the ball. I know Ma Long wasn't comfortable using several different balls in a short period of time. He had a hard time adapting.
But I have to ask about ML, XX and Fzd ball misses on backspin balls. Seems that the Donic table has more "bite" making the backspin balls halt faster. I spoke to a friend who plays in the top division here in Sweden and he thinks the Donic tables are terrible. I'll dig deeper when I see him next time.
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Yes I saw that too I think table is more to do with that then the ball. Anyways all use same table so chances are equal. I do not think Lee Sangsu had more occasions to play that table or the ball then chinese
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My two cents - Dima's level has always been high. Even LGL/ZJK etc admitted to that. Dima/Timo also work quite hard (may be at max 10/20 % less than CNT ). They also suffer from ball issues. What separated them from CNT so far was a mental firewall for last decade or so. Once that mental block got lifted mostly due to Timo's effort in World Cup, now Dima (and even others) have realized they can breach CNT. Quite opposite is happening in CNT . With LGL gone and ML's defeat , CNT players mental game and strength is on the wane now.
If we look at the CNT Women's team , there are no such big setbacks. The dynamics are quite different to Men's. I also believe champion coach XZ's move to Women's has actually been a huge boost to them.
If we look at the CNT Women's team , there are no such big setbacks. The dynamics are quite different to Men's. I also believe champion coach XZ's move to Women's has actually been a huge boost to them.
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I very much agree with you on this. I always hope that Richard Prause (former international player and German men's national team coach) is commentating as he always focuses on the play - explaining lots of technical and tactical aspects of the game in a clear, knowledgable and enthusiastic manner.
He actually did the first "block" of matches yesterday (doubles and MS round of 16), so anyone interested in insights from a top level coach should check those matches out
.I accept that Adam Bobrow is a more "colourful" and "entertaining" commentator, which might be better suited for a broader audience. I would however wish that the ITTF would hire co-commentators like Prause more often to supply Bobrow. That way we could have both expert (Prause) and colour commentary (Bobrow) and all the viewers should be happy?
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YES! Prause, he's very good!
I very much agree with you on this. I always hope that Richard Prause (former international player and German men's national team coach) is commentating as he always focuses on the play - explaining lots of technical and tactical aspects of the game in a clear, knowledgable and enthusiastic manner.
He actually did the first "block" of matches yesterday (doubles and MS round of 16), so anyone interested in insights from a top level coach should check those matches out
I accept that Adam Bobrow is a more "colourful" and "entertaining" commentator, which might be better suited for a broader audience. I would however wish that the ITTF would hire co-commentators like Prause more often to supply Bobrow. That way we could have both expert (Prause) and colour commentary (Bobrow) and all the viewers should be happy?
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agreed ! Good first set by Timo too .. lets see if he can beat Dima .. rooting for Timo
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I very much agree with you on this. I always hope that Richard Prause (former international player and German men's national team coach) is commentating as he always focuses on the play - explaining lots of technical and tactical aspects of the game in a clear, knowledgable and enthusiastic manner.
He actually did the first "block" of matches yesterday (doubles and MS round of 16), so anyone interested in insights from a top level coach should check those matches out
I accept that Adam Bobrow is a more "colourful" and "entertaining" commentator, which might be better suited for a broader audience. I would however wish that the ITTF would hire co-commentators like Prause more often to supply Bobrow. That way we could have both expert (Prause) and colour commentary (Bobrow) and all the viewers should be happy?
Prause is probably too busy bringing the German team to the next level.
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There seems a CNT crisis recently when a lot of CNT players including the most formidable ones ML, FZD, XX, namely WR #1, 2, 3, lost to non-CNT players more than once. And two questions are heavily discussed, first, is this a sign of the decline of CNT dominance and can non-CNT players keep beating CNT players? Second, what are the reasons for their losses, a bad day, dismiss of LGL and change in the management structure, change of ball/racket, etc.?
Here are my two cents.
(1) What is CNT dominance? Unbeatable by non-CNT players? NO, NO, NO. ML was unbeatable by non-CNT players in 2013(35 matches) /2014(28)/2015(22)/2016(40), FZD unbeatable in 2015(44 matches)/2016(26), XX unbeatable in 2013(50 matches)/2014(35); in earlier or later years, they DID lost to non-CNT players. ZJK was NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players in any given year, even at his prime; but that's not unusual, Wang Liqin, Ma Lin and Wang Hao were NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players too at their prime, though the non-CNT rivals back then may be tougher if you argue. Therefore, the unbeatable ML, FZD, XX in certain years are only outliers.
IMO, CNT dominance means winning champions in singles and team events in Olympic Games, WTTC, World Cup, ITTF platinum tours and Grand Finals, and major continental tournaments, when TOP CNT players attend. There is no guarantee when other Team A or B players were sent out for ITTF Tours. This year, CNT lost the titles of Asian Championships women's singles, men's World Cup and German Open men's singles. That means CNT dominance is really getting challenged. However, the threat from Miu Hirano seems gone now. And Timo Boll and Dimitrij Ovtcharov are always top-tier rivals of CNT. Lee Sangsu, Koki Niwa, Chen Chien-An, Tiago Apolonia, etc are second-tier rivals. Really no new face to add to the blacklist.
(2) What are the reasons for the recent losses of CNT players especially top guns? Of course we can say there are many factors, bad form/injuries/coach change/equipment change which all add up. I do not think dismiss of LGL as head coach is the key factor. In Asian Championships this April, Miu Hirano beat DN, ZYL and CM in a row; ML lost to Jeong Sangeun and XX lost to Koki Niwa. LGL was still head coach by then and he coached the match of ML vs Jeong Sangeun without his magic working. CNT attributed the losses of both men's and women's team to the underestimated ball change to Nittaku ABS (they used different ABS balls in training). And in closing training for WTTC, they worked on the issues accordingly and got satisfactory results in 2017 WTTC in late May. After the dismiss of LGL and boycott in China Open in late June, CNT men's team canceled Austrian Open. Thus no more DHS 40+ in training as the players went back to their provincial teams to prepare for the National Games with 729 seamless ball. I don't know if CTTA or CNT or the organizers of National Games are to blame; but it is NOT the players' fault. They have to play and fight hard at National Games for their provincial teams and they have to practice with seamless balls which are totally different from DHS 40+ used in international tournament. Some people argue that in a match both players play the same ball; the change of ball should affect them equally. But as a matter of fact, the ball change, to be specific, reduced spin and faster speed, affects players of different style differently. What CNT players and coaches have complained recently is that the ball has negative effects on CNT players at the moment and positive effects on certain non-CNT players who excel in power or speed. CNT players will adapt to the new ball sooner or later, with the cost of more body-building, or more injuries, or change of blades. Of course, each player may have his/her own issues like injuries or adaptation to new coach. But since many CNT players, of different play styles and strengths, senior or young, with the same coach or new coach, complained about the reduced spin of DHS 40+ as well 729 seamless and DHS double-colored ball used in CTTSL, there are really problems of ball change - while there are always solutions.
Here are my two cents.
(1) What is CNT dominance? Unbeatable by non-CNT players? NO, NO, NO. ML was unbeatable by non-CNT players in 2013(35 matches) /2014(28)/2015(22)/2016(40), FZD unbeatable in 2015(44 matches)/2016(26), XX unbeatable in 2013(50 matches)/2014(35); in earlier or later years, they DID lost to non-CNT players. ZJK was NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players in any given year, even at his prime; but that's not unusual, Wang Liqin, Ma Lin and Wang Hao were NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players too at their prime, though the non-CNT rivals back then may be tougher if you argue. Therefore, the unbeatable ML, FZD, XX in certain years are only outliers.
IMO, CNT dominance means winning champions in singles and team events in Olympic Games, WTTC, World Cup, ITTF platinum tours and Grand Finals, and major continental tournaments, when TOP CNT players attend. There is no guarantee when other Team A or B players were sent out for ITTF Tours. This year, CNT lost the titles of Asian Championships women's singles, men's World Cup and German Open men's singles. That means CNT dominance is really getting challenged. However, the threat from Miu Hirano seems gone now. And Timo Boll and Dimitrij Ovtcharov are always top-tier rivals of CNT. Lee Sangsu, Koki Niwa, Chen Chien-An, Tiago Apolonia, etc are second-tier rivals. Really no new face to add to the blacklist.
(2) What are the reasons for the recent losses of CNT players especially top guns? Of course we can say there are many factors, bad form/injuries/coach change/equipment change which all add up. I do not think dismiss of LGL as head coach is the key factor. In Asian Championships this April, Miu Hirano beat DN, ZYL and CM in a row; ML lost to Jeong Sangeun and XX lost to Koki Niwa. LGL was still head coach by then and he coached the match of ML vs Jeong Sangeun without his magic working. CNT attributed the losses of both men's and women's team to the underestimated ball change to Nittaku ABS (they used different ABS balls in training). And in closing training for WTTC, they worked on the issues accordingly and got satisfactory results in 2017 WTTC in late May. After the dismiss of LGL and boycott in China Open in late June, CNT men's team canceled Austrian Open. Thus no more DHS 40+ in training as the players went back to their provincial teams to prepare for the National Games with 729 seamless ball. I don't know if CTTA or CNT or the organizers of National Games are to blame; but it is NOT the players' fault. They have to play and fight hard at National Games for their provincial teams and they have to practice with seamless balls which are totally different from DHS 40+ used in international tournament. Some people argue that in a match both players play the same ball; the change of ball should affect them equally. But as a matter of fact, the ball change, to be specific, reduced spin and faster speed, affects players of different style differently. What CNT players and coaches have complained recently is that the ball has negative effects on CNT players at the moment and positive effects on certain non-CNT players who excel in power or speed. CNT players will adapt to the new ball sooner or later, with the cost of more body-building, or more injuries, or change of blades. Of course, each player may have his/her own issues like injuries or adaptation to new coach. But since many CNT players, of different play styles and strengths, senior or young, with the same coach or new coach, complained about the reduced spin of DHS 40+ as well 729 seamless and DHS double-colored ball used in CTTSL, there are really problems of ball change - while there are always solutions.
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I think no one mentioned that boll and ovtcharov are on exquisit form so this another factor on why the beat the chinese in two consecutive big tournaments. LGL is definitely the biggest factor, the ball change also ( but this is something the non china players can complain about) and of course it is more than evident to me that top euro players are risking more and play with more confidence against the CNT than in the past. Eventually china will lose at a point u cant win everything, LGL's words not mine
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You're most certainly right. And it might also be difficult to find other players/coaches as good as him as co-commentator. The various female players that has assisted Bobrow at some events this year hasn't added much compared to Prause - at least as far as I can remember.
But with the number of players and coaches present at the events, one would think that it should be possible to find expert co-commentators on a regular basis?
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Timo "Backhand serve" Boll
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I'm just sitting here laughing. Timo fooling Dima time and time again with the most basic type of serve possible. Timo, what a legendary player!
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