Harimoto defeats Fan Zhendong | Asian Cup 2018

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Aug 2017
282
157
478
(Full Match) Fan Zhendong vs Harimoto Tomokazu (MS) 2018 Asian Cup (Highlights)
 
Last edited:
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
7,432
9,461
18,681
Everybody knows about Haritomo's forehand loophole. Not even a secret. Even Harimoto says himself he tries to steer the game to his BH game as much as possible. His dad has openly admitted to it multiple times since WJTTC 2016, and he just told the press that Harimoto worked on his forehand at a week-long camp in Germany in March. But apparently that is only the external factor, the real reason he lost has to do with his mindset - the psychological predisposition that they couldn't lose to other countries other than China.

That is exactly what has been haunting Miu Hirano since ATTC 2017, who admitted in a TV program during the Asian Cup 2017. The same thing is pretty much going on for Harimoto since claiming the All-Japan Championships. He admitted his bad showing at the Team World Cup was due to the fame from beating Mizutani at the All-Japan. He couldn't lose to anyone else other than the Chinese. He told the press at the start of the Asian Cup that he lowered his position again during his match against FZD, but let it get to him again after that win.

This is why it's so difficult to hold a technical discussion on English-speaking forums. The East and West are not on the same page, at all. The overall mentality of various folks here is so yesteryear. Disconnected, to be blunt. And not just the amateurs, even the pros could be superstitious.

I have access to resources from China, Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, which allows me to make observations from at least 4 different angles. There're also a few coaches stationed in Japan who would share their opinions from time to time on Chinese forums. One prominent issue raised on Japanese table tennis culture is the tendency to look for shortcuts. Ever heard of the "scapula play style"? No clue what I'm talking about? Don't bother looking it up. You won't find anything in English. Anyway, Harimoto is a victim here. A very fundamental issue. His forehand will stay crappy as long as he doesn't fix it. That's all you need to know.

The issue of cutting corners is also evident in Ishikawa. Yup, her again. Can't help it. I've been keeping watch on her since 2009. In 2014, she said in a TV program she needed to work on her backhand, with her then new coach Chen Lili. She also said she had to work on the crucial points. In 2017, in yet another program, she was still fixing it, with yet another new coach, Li Lu since 2016. Her handling of crucial points is still disastrous as she pointed out in a news report after losing to Chen Meng. She also admitted to constantly imitating other players, never truly building on her own style. She copied Hirano's style after witnessing what she achieved. She revealed that she'd been focused on protecting her place on the team until she realized Ito and Hirano were already breathing down her neck. After so many years, she is finally back to working on her fundamentals. Yup, after years of cutting corners.

Bottom line? She just doesn't have what it takes. Zhang Yining said that much during her commentary in the final at the WTTC 2016.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2017
67
65
290
Everybody knows about Haritomo's forehand loophole. Not even a secret. Even Harimoto says himself he tries to steer the game to his BH game as much as possible. His dad has openly admitted to it multiple times since WJTTC 2016, and he just told the press that Harimoto worked on his forehand at a week-long camp in Germany in March. But apparently that is only the external factor, the real reason he lost has to do with his mindset - the psychological predisposition that they couldn't lose to other countries other than China.

That is exactly what has been haunting Miu Hirano since ATTC 2017, who admitted in a TV program during the Asian Cup 2017. The same thing is pretty much going on for Harimoto since claiming the All-Japan Championships. He admitted his bad showing at the Team World Cup was due to the fame from beating Mizutani at the All-Japan. He couldn't lose to anyone else other than the Chinese. He told the press at the start of the Asian Cup that he lowered his position again during his match against FZD, but let it get to him again after that win.

This is why it's so difficult to hold a technical discussion on English-speaking forums. The East and West are not on the same page, at all. The overall mentality of various folks here is so yesteryear. Disconnected, to be blunt. And not just the amateurs, even the pros could be superstitious.

I have access to resources from China, Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, which allows me to make observations from at least 4 different angles. There're also a few coaches stationed in Japan who would share their opinions from time to time on Chinese forums. One prominent issue raised on Japanese table tennis culture is the tendency to look for shortcuts. Ever heard of the "scapula play style"? No clue what I'm talking about? Don't bother looking it up. You won't find anything in English. Anyway, Harimoto is a victim here. A very fundamental issue. His forehand will stay crappy as long as he doesn't fix it. That's all you need to know.

The issue of cutting corners is also evident in Ishikawa. Yup, her again. Can't help it. I've been keeping watch on her since 2009. In 2014, she said in a TV program she needed to work on her backhand, with her then new coach Chen Lili. She also said she had to work on the crucial points. In 2017, in yet another program, she was still fixing it, with yet another new coach, Li Lu since 2016. Her handling of crucial points is still disastrous as she pointed out in a news report after losing to Chen Meng. She also admitted to constantly imitating other players, never truly building on her own style. She copied Hirano's style after witnessing what she achieved. She revealed that she'd been focused on protecting her place on the team until she realized Ito and Hirano were already breathing down her neck. After so many years, she is finally back to working on her fundamentals. Yup, after years of cutting corners.

Bottom line? She just doesn't have what it takes. Zhang Yining said that much during her commentary in the final at the WTTC 2016.

I'm not sure what you mean. Kasumi is currently the best and most consistent non chinese player in the world. Is that what you mean by doesn't have what it takes?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
...
what can i see it`s this... he can prepare for one player but still lack the experience to beat all the rest ?
let the scream fades with his name . ... i really do not like him only for the scream . When he becomes real no1 player i will no watch him play only for that. ! when he stops be a "jerk" i will watch.

Why is he screaming? Because he has invented a new style/strategy for professional table tennis. One component is that he plays at 100% energy every minute. He actually does have the same energy level all the time instead of the traditional fluctuation as in almost every other sport. It is comparable with 50 yard sprint running or swimming. In many time-period sports, the player normally operates about 90% energy level and turns it up to near 100% near the end or in a clutch situation. Tomo plays like every point is a clutch situation, so the yelling reflects his attitude to each point. Many people notice that he doesn't flip out at the end of each game or match like he does for each point. This is a different strategic method. This also partly explains why he does not back more than three feet away from the table. It also explains why he does not return into the opponents' wheelhouse areas, i.e., to where the opponent can make one of his easy shots. So except for Tomo's short soft returns, Tomo is making an extreme aggressive shot. This is the strategy that guides all his tactics. It is so advanced that it is building up the only way people can defeat the Chinese players, or any big strong player that relies on power playing. The other side of that is to make shots with speed and placement that prevent the firm planting of the feet and the resultant monster looping based on leg/foot placement. Tomo tactics and strategy will allow a certain equalization between Chinese monsters and everyone else. There are a few more tactical and strategic options available for the future, especially shown by Waldner, but that is even more advanced and allowed J-O to play world championships until he was 50 and involved super advanced brain work. Tomo has a very advanced brain, so he may take that path in his 30's. I'm not going into the whole Tomo method here, just bringing up some of the major components for discussion.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
Because he hopes that his opponent will get pissed.
So far it's only worked on Lubomir Pistej at the ITTF World Championship in 2017, Dusseldorf when Tomo was 13. All his other great victories, Boll, Samsonov, Mizutani, Fan, etc., his opponents were adults.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
I'm not sure what you mean. Kasumi is currently the best and most consistent non chinese player in the world. Is that what you mean by doesn't have what it takes?


lol zeio always exaggerates on his conclusions. general quotes like that dont mean a thing. The issue here is whatever happens zeio will eventually self proclaim that he was right

I agree though up to certain extent that non chinese players tend to cut corners. But he doesnt understand that mentalities are different and there is no such thing as superior mentality.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
i...just now Sagan just beat all in Paris Roubaix...
I hate him, he yells all the time
Sagan.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobpuls
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,655
18,259
45,744
Read 17 reviews
lol zeio always exaggerates on his conclusions. general quotes like that dont mean a thing. The issue here is whatever happens zeio will eventually self proclaim that he was right

I agree though up to certain extent that non chinese players tend to cut corners. But he doesnt understand that mentalities are different and there is no such thing as superior mentality.


The thing is that he is not just exaggerating, he is trying to make his predictions reality because they are the general opinion of some cognoscenti that don't want logic to bow to facts.

Not beating the Chinese is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Ishikawa has had other relatively major missteps in her career but which player not from China hasn't? Timo Boll? Even Miu Hirano was partly inspired by being left behind by Mima Ito at the 2016 Olympics.

It is hard to beat the Chinese if not almost impossible unless they get too cocky and underestimate you.

Ishikawa lost to Kim Song I in the singles of the Olympics. But Kim Song I went on to win the Bronze medal, which was what Ishikawa was expected to win. So it's not like she lost to a nobody - the draw was just unfavorable. But of course the loss hurt and rather than put it in perspective, a lot of emphasis has been placed on her choking.

She changed equipment (like Dima did) because she is fighting to do anything to get better. And of course she can talk about fundamentals and all that crap but those are things that you have to know top players to understand that their perspective is very different from the rest of us.

If the idea is that Japan should not place much faith in Ishikawa because she is damaged goods, sure, that is the choice of the National team. But if the idea is that there is realistically some team that Japan can field and some players out there in Japan that will be beating the best Chinese in 2020 and Ishikawa is not one of them, that is ridiculous and Ishikawa is fully within her rights to try to keep her standing on the team and to continue to beat her pursuers.

The Japanese are further enough ahead of most teams that they could get the silver without Ishikawa. But to be honest, in team events, they are all shakier than she has proven to be recently. She was the best part of the 2016 Bronze team. It's just hard to beat the Chinese.

I think Ishikawa is a fighter and deserves to be beaten of her pedestal and not have it taken away because of some imaginary theory that other players can do better against the Chinese than she can.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2010
3,779
4,573
16,166
I just wish I had the personal email of Ishikawa to sent this to her , it is a very nice and inspiring post NextLevel , you should write more :)

The thing is that he is not just exaggerating, he is trying to make his predictions reality because they are the general opinion of some cognoscenti that don't want logic to bow to facts.

Not beating the Chinese is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Ishikawa has had other relatively major missteps in her career but which player not from China hasn't? Timo Boll? Even Miu Hirano was partly inspired by being left behind by Mima Ito at the 2016 Olympics.

It is hard to beat the Chinese if not almost impossible unless they get too cocky and underestimate you.

Ishikawa lost to Kim Song I in the singles of the Olympics. But Kim Song I went on to win the Bronze medal, which was what Ishikawa was expected to win. So it's not like she lost to a nobody - the draw was just unfavorable. But of course the loss hurt and rather than put it in perspective, a lot of emphasis has been placed on her choking.

She changed equipment (like Dima did) because she is fighting to do anything to get better. And of course she can talk about fundamentals and all that crap but those are things that you have to know top players to understand that their perspective is very different from the rest of us.

If the idea is that Japan should not place much faith in Ishikawa because she is damaged goods, sure, that is the choice of the National team. But if the idea is that there is realistically some team that Japan can field and some players out there in Japan that will be beating the best Chinese in 2020 and Ishikawa is not one of them, that is ridiculous and Ishikawa is fully within her rights to try to keep her standing on the team and to continue to beat her pursuers.

The Japanese are further enough ahead of most teams that they could get the silver without Ishikawa. But to be honest, in team events, they are all shakier than she has proven to be recently. She was the best part of the 2016 Bronze team. It's just hard to beat the Chinese.

I think Ishikawa is a fighter and deserves to be beaten of her pedestal and not have it taken away because of some imaginary theory that other players can do better against the Chinese than she can.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
New Member
Sep 2017
4
1
5
Why is he screaming? Because he has invented a new style/strategy for professional table tennis. One component is that he plays at 100% energy every minute. He actually does have the same energy level all the time instead of the traditional fluctuation

Science taught us in the 1920s. Matter does not exist. Well that's the quote. Meaning we used to think it all boils down to molecules and atoms and atomic parts. But it's not true. At the core is energy that holds it all together. We may know of quantum physics but we have barely learned to live as if we are energy!

One advantage of being 13 is the natural idealism and the simplistic belief of the future.

The complexity of adult emotions is a disadvantage. It may contribute to creative strategy and the memory of experience is useful for sure but attentive confident energy trumps other great qualities because at our core we are energy.

This also makes me refer to your point about placement and imbalance. His Energy is not just exerted it is also aimed at points of lesser energy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
No wayyyyy .... howwww??? I never wanted this to happen .ah and I found out LGY lost too ... not a surprising one . Even not an upset . I just wanna know when he's gonna be a top chinese player after these many defeats ?? China must do something . They dont have enough promising young players as before ( ml , zjk, xx ) .

What are you talking about? China has a lot of promising young players. FZD is only 21 years old, that's young. Wang Chuqin is a promising player, only 17 years old. Liang Jingkun, Liu Dingshuo, Yan An are all rising stars. And then there is Fang Bo and Zhou Yu. They might not be on the same level as Ma Long, FZD, and Xu Xin, but any of them has the potential to become the next world #1. In terms of average skill level, the Chinese national team still dominates.

IMHO, the top tier table tennis players consists of Ma Long, FZD, Xu Xin, Timo Boll, and Dima Ovtcharov (in no particular order). They can certainly lose matches to lower ranked players, but they are the most consistently strong players. They regularly best each other in major events. For example, Ma Long beat Timo in WTTC 2017, then Timo beat Ma Long in World Cup just a few months later; and Dima beat FZD in German Open 2017, then FZD beat Dima a few months later in World Tour Grand Final.

Harimoto is still too young. He lacks sufficient physical strength to be a serious threat to the top 5 players. But as I said before, it does not mean the top 5 are invincible. Anyone can lose a match. Harimoto has beaten Timo in 2017, during one of the ITTF World Tour Open, can't remember which one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobpuls
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
7,432
9,461
18,681
Bottom line? She just doesn't have what it takes. Zhang Yining said that much during her commentary in the final at the WTTC 2016.
There you have it. Even Bobrow said during the final that Japan might've been better off benching Ishikawa and going with Hayata instead.
 
Top