Did Fan Zhendong lose to Harimoto on purpose? (Asian Cup 2018)

Baal · Apr 13, 2018

Fixed (losing on purpose) is one thing.

Not playing your best because there is not a lot at stake is a different thing.

FZD is human. He may have not battled at his best. Doesn't mean he lost on purpose. Nothing anyone has posted here convinces me he lost on purpose. I do read a lot from self proclaimed expertz on the CNT.

tropical · Apr 13, 2018

That is why I wanted to switch my vote after falling into the conspiracy theory then Rainnever corrected me. How naive I was!

Xylit · Apr 13, 2018

I have not read through all posts. I can't imagine that FZD has lost the match deliberately. Maybe he did not play 100% seriously and concentrated as it was not a knock-out stage match. Maybe he did not care too much about this match. Maybe he wanted to save some energy for the following matches. In the end FZD won the tournament and that is all that matters.

tsunami902 · Apr 13, 2018

Bulls eye!!! Th won a game to fdz...not a "tournament".

countrybread · Apr 14, 2018

On the one hand, athletes have thrown matches. We learned that with Olympic badminton. Sports people are like anyone else: they occasionally bend the rules or do something crazy. Its naïve to think otherwise. But did Fan throw the match? Does he use viscaria with an infinity handle? Maybe, maybe not. I'll reserve judgment because the only proof is, "some guy on the internet said so."

Loopadoop · Apr 14, 2018

If I were a TT CNT bureaurocrat, with Asian pride on the line in this tournament, I would sacrifice a loss in one match of a group stage to put my team players in position to win the Silver and Gold vs only one of the two.

Murre5 · Apr 14, 2018

When I saw the match it looked more like FZD lost because he played bad then Harimoto won because he played amazing.
But I don't know I don't see why China would want Harimoto to gain any confidence in beating the chinese at all? Even though that means silver and gold in a tournament.

Michal_Z · Apr 14, 2018

Oki, I ended up with reading this topic at page two.
So this is my opinion - when you know who are you going to face based on your rank in the group, and you are certain you can go far in the draw - why would you pick up the tougher opponent in the draw?
I made this too.
Specially - from what I read, it was almost clear after being 1:1, that if he beats Harimoto, he meets LGY before the final.
So - I think he lost on purpose, but not for gain money from bets. The decision came real during the match.
And it is easy for players like this to lose on purpose. You just need to lose focus by like 5-10%. That is easy. But not easy to spot.

So all in all, my opinion is, that is was on purpose, but not for China to take medals, but for FZD to have easier draw to the final.

rainneverever · Apr 14, 2018

Come on... If FZD wanted to avoid facing LGY before the final, he should wait to see LGY's third group match and then lose his third group match "on purpose", not the second one...
Also people need to realize losing to a Japanese is something really bad for a Chinese, worse than losing to a German or a Korean, not to mention Chinese media kept making fun of this Japanese boy who got swept in WTC.

Michal_Z said:
Oki, I ended up with reading this topic at page two.
So this is my opinion - when you know who are you going to face based on your rank in the group, and you are certain you can go far in the draw - why would you pick up the tougher opponent in the draw?
I made this too.
Specially - from what I read, it was almost clear after being 1:1, that if he beats Harimoto, he meets LGY before the final.
So - I think he lost on purpose, but not for gain money from bets. The decision came real during the match.
And it is easy for players like this to lose on purpose. You just need to lose focus by like 5-10%. That is easy. But not easy to spot.

So all in all, my opinion is, that is was on purpose, but not for China to take medals, but for FZD to have easier draw to the final.

Free bird · Apr 14, 2018

Loopadoop said:
If I were a TT CNT bureaurocrat, with Asian pride on the line in this tournament, I would sacrifice a loss in one match of a group stage to put my team players in position to win the Silver and Gold vs only one of the two.

As CaiZH shockingly admitted they wouldn’t do it anymore except for Olympic Games. So I don’t think CNT bureaurocrat in general would intervene at all for such a tournament. For WH as a young coach competing for the lead coach position with LGZ at the moment it makes real difference wether both Chinese get to the finals or not. Beside, the damage of losing to a Japanese player in the group stage in such a situation is minimal compared to helping WH and LGY.

Michael_Z’ point makes a lot of sense from a player ‘s perspective. that’s totally legit and different from being forced to do so. But I don’t believe that’s the case here. Don’t think it’s in fzd’s fighting DNA to do that.

rainneverever · Apr 14, 2018

WH's goal is simple, help FZD win whatever he needs to win. NOT LOSING... NOT LOSING to a Japanese! How many times I have to emphasize, FZD could lose his THIRD match on purpose, like making up some sudden disease or injury or just walk over. Losing SECOND match did not finalize FZD or LGY's group ranking.
And LGZ is already the head of coach group, WH is outcompeted, or in other words, it was only WJP and LGZ's competition. No room for WH.

Free bird · Apr 14, 2018

rainneverever said:
WH's goal is simple, help FZD win whatever he needs to win. NOT LOSING... NOT LOSING to a Japanese! How many times I have to emphasize, FZD could lose his THIRD match on purpose, like making up some sudden disease or injury or just walk over. Losing SECOND match did not finalize FZD or LGY's group ranking.
And LGZ is already the head of coach group, WH is outcompeted, or in other words, it was only WJP and LGZ's competition. No room for WH.

WJP is not competing with anybody. The guy got called for duty from retirement and is not there for long. LGZ and WH are in for a long while. Yes, at the moment, LGZ seems to be in a much better position.

Also your logic about losing is not quite there if you take into account that HT/FZD and LGY/LSS are both strongest players in their perspective groups.

rainneverever · Apr 14, 2018

On CNT's original and final entries of WTC, LGZ was listed as the coach.
On CNT's original entries of WTTTC, WJP was listed as the coach and on the final entries, LGZ was listed as the coach.
During the training before WTC, it was WJP who gave speech to players.
During the trial for WTTTC, it was WJP who gave speech to players and was interview by media.
During the closed training for WTTTC, it was first WJP then LGZ who gave speech to players and it was LGZ who was interviewed by media before the end of closed training.
There is NO WH's place.
If you don't follow CNT closely, and if you don't understand the complication between Chinese and Japanese, if you don't understand Chinese culture especially some subtle things like who got the interview and who gave speech, please don't jump on some hasty conclusions. TBH, I was so surprised that people who seem to favor FZD in the thread tried to find an excuse for his loss by making him and his coach WH lack of integrity. At least in Chinese culture, a man who loses AND who is without integrity is never looked up.

Free bird said:
WJP is not competing with anybody. The guy got called for duty from retirement and is not there for long. LGZ and WH are in for a long while. Yes, at the moment, LGZ seems to be in a much better position.

Also your logic about losing is not quite there if you take into account that HT/FZD and LGY/LSS are both strongest players in their perspective groups.

rainneverever · Apr 14, 2018

Plus, it is 2018 now and it is almost 10 months since China Open boycott. No matter you agree or disagree of their act, CNT players, at least ML, XX, FZD, showed that they are not someone who can be easily manipulated by coach group or bureaucrat. I respect these three players as men of loyalty and integrity. They can be defeated on a bad day, or even on a good day as no one can win forever. Why not just simply accept the defeat?

quanghuysk · Apr 14, 2018

For my compatriot *EmRatThich*, it seems like your CNT is absolute champion and if they lose, it's just on purpose.
He will never accept the defeat lmao.

rainneverever said:
Plus, it is 2018 now and it is almost 10 months since China Open boycott. No matter you agree or disagree of their act, CNT players, at least ML, XX, FZD, showed that they are not someone who can be easily manipulated by coach group or bureaucrat. I respect these three players as men of loyalty and integrity. They can be defeated on a bad day, or even on a good day as no one can win forever. Why not just simply accept the defeat?

tsunami902 · Apr 14, 2018

In a simplest WORD...STRATEGY!!!

Loopadoop · Apr 14, 2018

In my opinion, the CNT bureaurocrats see this tournament like a world championship since usually non Asians don't compete as well. So a Gold and Silver take precedence over any meaningless group stage match.

rainneverever · Apr 15, 2018

the CNT bureaurocrats see this tournament like a world championship - Joke of the day!

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 15, 2018

I guess this is just a thread for people who like to argue and want to think they are correct.

It doesn't really seem that interesting to me from either side of the argument.

The choices on the poll seem totally idiotic to me. "Yes! To win more medals!" "No! Harimoto is stronger"

I disagree with both choices and the way they have been worded, it is possible to disagree with both of them even if you think "yes" or "no".

zeio · Apr 15, 2018

FZD's response when asked about it by a reporter 2 days ago. Time to exercise your common sense.

“假如我是故意输给张本智和，这个在这里就不方便说了。”

Did Fan Zhendong lose to Harimoto on purpose? (Asian Cup 2018)

On purpose or not?

Yes! To win more medals!

No! Harimoto is stronger

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