Did Fan Zhendong lose to Harimoto on purpose? (Asian Cup 2018)

On purpose or not?

  • Yes! To win more medals!

    Votes: 32 74.4%
  • No! Harimoto is stronger

    Votes: 11 25.6%

  • Total voters
    43
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2017
139
162
464
Maybe he did, maybe not. In any case I think FZD didn't care about winning at all costs, was tired, or both.

FZD can beat almost anybody in the world at any given time, has done so repeatedly and will keep doing so in the immediate future. I don't think he is worried about Harimoto at all.

However he has lost to ML at the last truly big event, and has lost to / been given trouble by 1 or 2 other players on occasions (like LGY). He must also be aware that the game that brought him to the top-level is a bit one-dimensional, despite the fact that he is amazingly good at it. This is not sound if you want to stack the odds overwhelmingly in your favour for big titles.

I have no doubt than FZD wants to become the very best and to get the big titles, and is determined to change his game if he has to. He's been working on his push receive (rather than banana flick) a lot, and on playing a more balanced FH/BH game. Can you think of a single instance of FZD covering the middle with his FH or even willingly stepping around a year ago?

He is doing that quite often in this game against Harimoto, and you can still see that this goes against his instincts. It is quite courageous because he has to rework all of his fundamental game schemes to get his FH more into play and to find the right balance with his BH (and he might genuinely become worse). In that game, when he goes back to doing what he does best or when everything falls into place you can get a glimpse of the difference of level with Harimoto.

Nowadays when watching FZD, I look at how much he opens up with an aggressive banana flick vs. a short push. If he touches short a lot on the receive, I assume he is practicing under real conditions (remember, he used to seemingly BH flick anything). Same if he doesn't pound every other ball with his BH. That doesn't mean he wants to lose or doesn't care, just that he is determined to make true progress towards being the absolute best in the world, vs. winning his 389685th match of the year 4 sets to 0, 10-2 -5 -4 -1.

Of course, it won't be long until his short touch becomes equal to his BH flick and his FH/BH merges into one big ruthless ass-kicking automated pain distributor. O well.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2018
236
193
502
Idiotic comments

TH will win the Chinese again and we will still have those stupid comments even if it happens in the Olympic final

Do you know what ostriches like to do in the sand? You’re doing exactly that.
I’ve been rooting for TH since early days and just hope he can keep his mind clear. Anyone who knows some inner workings of CNT and some history would find the scenario not difficult to comprehend at all
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2016
1,024
1,960
3,016
So why LGY lost to FZD in the final? Was it a fixed game too based on many of your "insider" info of CNT? Last year LGY beat FZD in the Asian Cup final and FZD got runner-up for the third time. This year, isn't it reasonable that CNT coaches ordered LGY to lose so FZD doesn't have to get a fourth runner-up?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Jun 2015
2,205
547
2,850
So why LGY lost to FZD in the final? Was it a fixed game too based on many of your "insider" info of CNT? Last year LGY beat FZD in the Asian Cup final and FZD got runner-up for the third time. This year, isn't it reasonable that CNT coaches ordered LGY to lose so FZD doesn't have to get a fourth runner-up?

That is conceivable too.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2018
236
193
502
It is conceivable, a gold and a silver, is more important to the CNT hierarchy, than just a gold.

WangHao and LiuGuoZheng are two leading candidates for the lead coach position. Their accomplishments are watched closely these days......
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
7,446
9,471
18,707
It is conceivable, a gold and a silver, is more important to the CNT hierarchy, than just a gold.
The best-case scenario would have been a gold and a bronze if FZD advanced as 1st in group, which means both players would have secured the spots for World Cup. So theoretically speaking, it's not a must to throw the match.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
Do you know what ostriches like to do in the sand? You’re doing exactly that.
I’ve been rooting for TH since early days and just hope he can keep his mind clear. Anyone who knows some inner workings of CNT and some history would find the scenario not difficult to comprehend at all

Τhe chinese guys who actually know a thing or two about the CNT and translate and the rest of us mere mortals who have watched all of LGL's interviews can assure you that the match fixing scenario is ridiculous and plain biased conspiracy theory based on stuff that happened like 40 years ago and comparing olympic badminton with asian tt is also a false arguement.

We could talk about scenarios all day but what matters is that harimoto won the game and rather convincignly if u ask me. The logic behind these scenarions could also claim that the CNT let hirano win 3 top cnt women on purpose.

p.s. u may wanna rethink about who is acting like an ostrich :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: ping fun and langel
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2018
236
193
502
Τhe chinese guys who actually know a thing or two about the CNT and translate and the rest of us mere mortals who have watched all of LGL's interviews can assure you that the match fixing scenario is ridiculous and plain biased conspiracy theory based on stuff that happened like 40 years ago and comparing olympic badminton with asian tt is also a false arguement.

We could talk about scenarios all day but what matters is that harimoto won the game and rather convincignly if u ask me. The logic behind these scenarions could also claim that the CNT let hirano win 3 top cnt women on purpose.

p.s. u may wanna rethink about who is acting like an ostrich :p

So it ain’t so because LGL said so? It only happen like 40 years ago? I don’t know what to say, I give up, you win, I lost.

2004 Olympic semi- finals, WangHao beat wangLiQin easily and advanced to the finals only to lose it to RSM of Korea. Around that time, WLQ had huge advantage over WH based on their head-to-head record, but WH had much better results playing against RSM than WLQ did. Rumors flying all over the media afterwords, officials totally denied any game fixing. One year later, in a interview by a sports paper in 2005, Cai ZH, LGL’ boss, said the following

蔡振华直言不讳地说,“现在,我们一般不会再有让球,不会再有何智丽现象。必须指出的是,如果在奥运会上,那就是国家利益高于一切。比如说比较两个运动员对付下一个外国运动员谁更强的时候,我认为还应该以国家为重,这是我的原则,十多年来我们一直这样。”

A simplified translation: we don’t do that anymore. But Olympic is an exception. National interest trumps any individual interest. We should pick a player who plays better against next foreign player........

Guess who was the coach at the time? LGL. But then again since he absolutely denied it, we should just all .........

The CNT is doing better than before in this regard, it’ll take time to gain trust
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Feb 2012
158
158
408
People, please! Ostriches do not and have never buried their heads in the sand! Please stop reinforcing the most ridiculous piece of nonsense. Suggesting ostriches bury their heads is even more stupid than suggesting FZD threw the game against Harimoto.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
7,446
9,471
18,707
Dude.....
Enough Internet for today
[Emoji23]
Hey, remember to exercise your common sense in this age of fake news.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
7,446
9,471
18,707
So it ain’t so because LGL said so? It only happen like 40 years ago? I don’t know what to say, I give up, you win, I lost.

2004 Olympic semi- finals, WangHao beat wangLiQin easily and advanced to the finals only to lose it to RSM of Korea. Around that time, WLQ had huge advantage over WH based on their head-to-head record, but WH had much better results playing against RSM than WLQ did. Rumors flying all over the media afterwords, officials totally denied any game fixing. One year later, in a interview by a sports paper in 2005, Cai ZH, LGL’ boss, said the following

蔡振华直言不讳地说,“现在,我们一般不会再有让球,不会再有何智丽现象。必须指出的是,如果在奥运会上,那就是国家利益高于一切。比如说比较两个运动员对付下一个外国运动员谁更强的时候,我认为还应该以国家为重,这是我的原则,十多年来我们一直这样。”

A simplified translation: we don’t do that anymore. But Olympic is an exception. National interest trumps any individual interest. We should pick a player who plays better against next foreign player........

Guess who was the coach at the time? LGL. But then again since he absolutely denied it, we should just all .........

The CNT is doing better than before in this regard, it’ll take time to gain trust
There is more to it. Back in 2013, WLQ looked back on Athens in an interview by magazine Table Tennis World and said something that's open to interpretation. This is where common sense breaks down because you can interpret it how you want.

Back in 2004, RSM said he didn't know if CNT ordered WLQ to throw the match, but if he could choose, he'd want to face WH instead, citing that WLQ was WR No.1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTFrenzy
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2018
236
193
502
People, please! Ostriches do not and have never buried their heads in the sand! Please stop reinforcing the most ridiculous piece of nonsense. Suggesting ostriches bury their heads is even more stupid than suggesting FZD threw the game against Harimoto.

So that old saying is just a fallacy? My apologies go out to all ostriches in the world, especially those down under, for the unfortunate collateral damage of their reputation ������ These birds are more intelligent than we’ve given them credit for.

Joking aside, as a tt enthusiast, I’m as excited as everybody else here to see the rise of a true tt prodigy and can’t wait for the coming rivalry of the decade between him and fzd. I just hope HT will be developed into a complete player, working more on strengthening his fitness (squat, core, ...) and other fundamentals rather than spending most of the effort on short term winning. The short sightness and eagerness to grab short-term accomplishments of his handlers can be his worst enemy.
Also watch out for his little sister of 11.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
So it ain’t so because LGL said so? It only happen like 40 years ago? I don’t know what to say, I give up, you win, I lost.

2004 Olympic semi- finals, WangHao beat wangLiQin easily and advanced to the finals only to lose it to RSM of Korea. Around that time, WLQ had huge advantage over WH based on their head-to-head record, but WH had much better results playing against RSM than WLQ did. Rumors flying all over the media afterwords, officials totally denied any game fixing. One year later, in a interview by a sports paper in 2005, Cai ZH, LGL’ boss, said the following

蔡振华直言不讳地说,“现在,我们一般不会再有让球,不会再有何智丽现象。必须指出的是,如果在奥运会上,那就是国家利益高于一切。比如说比较两个运动员对付下一个外国运动员谁更强的时候,我认为还应该以国家为重,这是我的原则,十多年来我们一直这样。”

A simplified translation: we don’t do that anymore. But Olympic is an exception. National interest trumps any individual interest. We should pick a player who plays better against next foreign player........

Guess who was the coach at the time? LGL. But then again since he absolutely denied it, we should just all .........

The CNT is doing better than before in this regard, it’ll take time to gain trust

The 2004 story is totally different, internal match "fixing" can be considered the same thing as choosing A player to represent china before a tournament instead of choosing player B. Its quite simple, u dont just give away a match against ur no1 hated nation and no1 competitor in a tournament that you use for testing ur abilities. The CNT does not care much about asian events, wttc olympics and world cup are what matter the most

The whole "cnt needed FZD and LGY in the final" arguement is ridiculous because they never paid any significant attention in asian events whatsoever. If one looks the history of these tours he can observe that there are many examples that CNT lost to korean and japan players

Ask ur self which is more important, winning no1 and no2 in an event that is small potatoes, or crushing ur no1 competitor and any other competitor? because since 2017 the rest of the world is closing the gap and believe more to win against the chinese. U dont just give a psychological edge to ur opponent for 2 medals in a small event.

Through the years the CNT staff does not forgive poor performances against any foreigners even in pro tours.

ZJK zhou yu LGY yan an hao shuai LJK are all examples of players who got punished in upcoming events for performing poorly or losing in pro tours against foreigners...That fact is enough for me to to justify that the CNT didnt threw the match against the no1 threat, especially when that threat is still a small boy with undeveloped and unmatured character.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Richie
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
I don't think the Tomo-Fan match was fixed. Especially watching closely several times. However, there has been some debate on the importance of the Asian Cup on having the gold and silver in a tournament that includes the top Asian players. It looks like China has won both 26 of the past 31 gold medals and 23 of the past 31 silver medals. Wow, that's quite a record, so there may be some big deal about the medals? Wikipedia:


asian cup history.jpg
 

Attachments

  • asian cup history.jpg
    asian cup history.jpg
    18.5 KB · Views: 159
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
I don't think the Tomo-Fan match was fixed. Especially watching closely several times. However, there has been some debate on the importance of the Asian Cup on having the gold and silver in a tournament that includes the top Asian players. It looks like China has won both 26 of the past 31 gold medals and 23 of the past 31 silver medals. Wow, that's quite a record, so there may be some big deal about the medals? Wikipedia:


View attachment 16102


li xiaodong and the other tall guy who trained lixiaoxia and zhu yuling have stated that they use the asian events to test the players as a "Rehearsal" for the big events to come . off course this does not mean that they dont care about winning but they dont lose any sleep over it

several chinese both men and women have lost in singles or asian team events only to appear stronger/more solid in the next wttc/olympics/wtttc
 
Top