Does pro success = growth of the sport

Brs said:

Now the England men are doing really well in internatiinal comps, but I read here about how British local league is dying, the average age if players in 60, a lot of the same problems as we have here. So I'm wondering, does pro/ittf success make a difference to spreading general participation in a sport, or not. What do you think?

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I think that it depends on the size of the country. In a small country - yes. In big countries like the UK or US where there's so much else to compete with (football/soccer, baseball, basketball etc) and the sport is commonly seen as a hobby type activity.

If someone from for example Slovenia would win the Worlds it would probably get so much more attention compared to in the UK. The person would for sure get some attention in the UK but it would probably be seen as a novelty and fade out fairly quickly.

I guess it also depends on the culture and history of the sport in the country. A country that used to be fairly good (like Belgium Poland, Sweden etc) would probably get a big "TT boom" if someone went a head and won a major title as the people can relate to the sport via past heroes.

Just my 0.02$.

On a side note and slightly off topic: A colleague of mine who is from Tranås (the birthplace of Stiga and the current place where some of the Yasaka blades are being made) said that table tennis must for sure be in steep decline as the Swedish public service broadcaster SVT was able to afford to buy the rights of a world championship. SVT isn't even able to buy the rights to niche sports like XC skiing any more.

mart1nandersson said:

SVT isn't even able to buy the rights to niche sports like XC skiing any more.

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Offtopic: I couldn't have imagined that XC skiing is a niche sports in Sweden.

For Japan, yes. For Taiwan, yes. For Hong Kong, yes.

England didn't really come into the limelight until 2016. It's going to take time.

It took the JTTA over 10 years of work from the day they sent Mizutani, Matsu-ken and Kishikawa over to Germany for training for table tennis to shed the negative image and reach the popularity it enjoys now in Japan. Fukuhara, in particular, played a pivotal role in re-igniting interest in table tennis. You need a national idol like her to attract the younger generations. Ishikawa looked up to her as a child. Ito looked up to her as a child. Hirano looked up to her as a child.

In an interview with Chen Jing, table tennis in Taiwan was an amateur sport until she won the silver medal at Atlanta Olympics. That medal was paramount in drawing people to table tennis.

Hong Kong has been a powerhouse in table tennis, but Li Ching/Ko Lai Chak winning the silver medal at the Athens Olympics and gold medal at the Asian Games Doha truly took it to the next level. A wave of kids picked up the sport.

Ilia Minkin said:

Offtopic: I couldn't have imagined that XC skiing is a niche sports in Sweden.

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It's like the rest of Europe here. Football (& ice hockey to a certain extent) gets 98% of the media attention so I would argue that it's a niche sport like floor ball and "Хоккей с мячом".

The Portugese team didn't even have their own national training center. They got one after winning the ETTC title in 2014. They were training in a basement before then.

pro success = growth of the sport? Yes, more or less. I'm sure it helps, but how much depends on a lot of things as others pointed out.
For countries where table tennis is already pretty popular like Japan, Korea or used to be popular like Sweden, there will be a boom in popularity. For countries where table tennis is less popular like US, there will be growth but it can be small. And it takes time to see the result. Also, if the success is long term and not just one lucky title, the growth will be even bigger.

I believe, though, if a US player win some major title like WTTC or Olympics, table tennis would be at least 2-3 times popular in US than it is at the moment.

"England men are doing really well in international comps" but IMO they are still pretty far from making a big noise in UK, they need one or two players in the top 10 who are able to compete with the best players and challenge for the big titles. But sure the current success will help more or less, especially if they can keep it up for a while, but you need to wait 5-10 years to see the results.

Its a problem of society and social mentality.
Some nations are taught to pay attention only to trumped national victory.

Believe it or not, Japan and Hong Kong are two examples where sports are not driven by nationalism.

Nationalism in Japan and Hong Kong is really weak. For Japan, it's because of the WWII where nationalism was associated with militarism. For Hong Kong, nationalism was never cultured during British colonial era nor has the HKSAR government(but China wants it to) since the handover.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/09/03/reader-mail/patriotism-nationalism-postwar-japan/
http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong...rts-foster-patriotism-through-sport-hong-kong

Brs said:

There is a constant debate in the US about why TT is a fringe sport, and what would make it grow. One thing people often say is that until an American starts winning worlds or olympics, nobody will watch or care.

Now the England men are doing really well in internatiinal comps, but I read here about how British local league is dying, the average age if players in 60, a lot of the same problems as we have here. So I'm wondering, does pro/ittf success make a difference to spreading general participation in a sport, or not. What do you think?

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I like your question. Thank you.

I think idolising TT stars is the only way to drive the sport forward TBH. Look at ZJK. He literally became a celebrity after the London Olympics. He has drawn a lot of attention to TT across China. LGL knew the secret. When he was still the head coach in China, he booked up a lot of famous Chinese TV shows for his TT champions like ML, XX, ZJK and FZD. Their popularity shot up the roof. They went on stage and sang with famous celebrities. Their Weibo profiles get millions of followers. Chinese TT stars were never in such a high profile before.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib said:

I like your question. Thank you.

I think idolising TT stars is the only way to drive the sport forward TBH. Look at ZJK. He literally became a celebrity after the London Olympics. He has drawn a lot of attention to TT across China. LGL knew the secret. When he was still the head coach in China, he booked up a lot of famous Chinese TV shows for his TT champions like ML, XX, ZJK and FZD. Their popularity shot up the roof. They went on stage and sang with famous celebrities. Their Weibo profiles get millions of followers. Chinese TT stars were never in such a high profile before.

Passionate about TT

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Exactly. Just look at J-O promoting himself

SFF_lib said:

I think idolising TT stars is the only way to drive the sport forward TBH.

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I politely disagree. I think the love of star athletes comes after people already play, not the other way around.

What table tennis has, is that it is really fun (I don't think anyone here will disagree with that) and that almost anyone can play it, almost anywhere. It's just like football in this respect - and THAT is why football is popular! Because every schoolkid can go down the nearest park or empty block with a ball and play. Not because of Ronaldo or Messi.

And also what we maybe miss is that table tennis IS enormously popular. What's missing, is the connection between basement players and club players. So my proposal is that every single cheap recreational table and bat should come with a flyer saying "HAVING FUN? GOOGLE YOUR LOCAL TABLE TENNIS CLUB TO LEARN AND PLAY MORE!"

My second proposal is that the ITTF should spend the rest of the marketing budget, on putting outdoor tables in local parks. With a sign with the address and name of the nearest club. And subsidise cheap table purchases for schools and sports halls.

hillwalker said:

I politely disagree. I think the love of star athletes comes after people already play, not the other way around.

What table tennis has, is that it is really fun (I don't think anyone here will disagree with that) and that almost anyone can play it, almost anywhere. It's just like football in this respect - and THAT is why football is popular! Because every schoolkid can go down the nearest park or empty block with a ball and play. Not because of Ronaldo or Messi.

And also what we maybe miss is that table tennis IS enormously popular. What's missing, is the connection between basement players and club players. So my proposal is that every single cheap recreational table and bat should come with a flyer saying "HAVING FUN? GOOGLE YOUR LOCAL TABLE TENNIS CLUB TO LEARN AND PLAY MORE!"

My second proposal is that the ITTF should spend the rest of the marketing budget, on putting outdoor tables in local parks. With a sign with the address and name of the nearest club. And subsidise cheap table purchases for schools and sports halls.

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It is a good point. Connecting casual players to a local club.

Another issue I see in my local club is the lack of training pathway.

I have seen newbies turn up for a few times. They want to learn but advanced players won't play with them. Training costs $60/hr + club fee. Many can't afford it.

It has become so inaccessible and expensive to get better in TT.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib said:

I have seen newbies turn up for a few times. They want to learn but advanced players won't play with them. Training costs $60/hr + club fee. Many can't afford it.

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Yes I see this too. My club has 2 tables informally as "beginner" tables closest to the door, with the guideline that the level of play is higher the further the table is away from the door, but I wish they would be more organised about it and make that guideline official.

I think this sort of thing also gets better as the club gets more popular. More people = more beginners to play each other at the same level.

It has become so inaccessible and expensive to get better in TT.

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Well, yes and no. I ride bikes as well, and I had a friend who does club/state level mountain bike racing seriously tell me that he wouldn't spend less than $7,500 on a race bike. That's expensive! And where I am, even the fees to play amateur football with a local club are pretty high.

In comparison an all-wood blade, a few sheets of Chinese or Xiom rubber, and a TT club membership are cheap.

hillwalker said:

Yes I see this too. My club has 2 tables informally as "beginner" tables closest to the door, with the guideline that the level of play is higher the further the table is away from the door, but I wish they would be more organised about it and make that guideline official.

I think this sort of thing also gets better as the club gets more popular. More people = more beginners to play each other at the same level.



Well, yes and no. I ride bikes as well, and I had a friend who does club/state level mountain bike racing seriously tell me that he wouldn't spend less than $7,500 on a race bike. That's expensive! And where I am, even the fees to play amateur football with a local club are pretty high.

In comparison an all-wood blade, a few sheets of Chinese or Xiom rubber, and a TT club membership are cheap.

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Good on them. In our area not many people can afford a $50 racket and $60/hr training.

But the bigger issue is how to integrate beginners to the local club and keep them coming.

Beginners can't see the amazing aspect of table tennis. To get them see it, someone will need to train them.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib said:

Good on them. In our area not many people can afford a $50 racket and $60/hr training.

But the bigger issue is how to integrate beginners to the local club and keep them coming.

Beginners can't see the amazing aspect of table tennis. To get them see it, someone will need to train them.

Passionate about TT

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Well, for me, I played with my friends for a year with no idea and thought table tennis was plenty amazing. I've never payed a cent for training, just watched YouTube videos and set my own training goals. Sure I lose most of the time but I still go to my club and have fun.

When England wins some Olympic medals, preferably gold, it will change. See for example road and track cycling over last 15 years. Right now they are not in that league in TT.

SFF_lib said:

I have seen newbies turn up for a few times. They want to learn but advanced players won't play with them. Training costs $60/hr + club fee. Many can't afford it.

It has become so inaccessible and expensive to get better in TT.

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I feel your pain.

Ilia Minkin said:

I feel your pain.

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In most Western countries, both tables and better players are a scarce resource, and naturally better players are keener to practice with someone closer to their level than with someone who's just learning to play.