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    1. Top | #241
      Brs is online now
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      Yes he should. And open a chain of restaurants called Little Fatty's. He'd make bank.

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    3. Top | #242
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      Yes he should. And open a chain of restaurants called Little Fatty's. He'd make bank.
      Loool. He needs the big fatty as well as a business partner.

      Seriously speaking, FZD used to overpower his opponents with sheer brute force. It only works if you are in a top physical shape, and it will dip eventually.

    4. Top | #243
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      Loool. He needs the big fatty as well as a business partner.

      Seriously speaking, FZD used to overpower his opponents with sheer brute force. It only works if you are in a top physical shape, and it will dip eventually.
      To be fair, he's been a fixture at the top so long now, it's easy to forget he's only 22, making him younger than even LGY. Whatever is wrong is unlikely to be physical (unless he's actually carrying an injury).

      That said, something does seem to be mentally/psychologically wrong. He doesn't look as sharp as he used to (especially his movement and anticipation), and generally does not seem as motivated. His play has also become incredibly passive, the amount he plays short touches now is just nothing short of excessive.

    5. Top | #244
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      Quote Originally Posted by lVegita View Post
      Random noob question:

      Why did it take so long for XX to master the RPB having Wang Hao himself available in the coach's team? Didn't they let WH available enough for Xu Xin?
      This one is complicated. To answer that would require going back more than a decade ago. Yet, I don't feel like writing so much. Maybe later when I feel like it. For the time being, check the really old videos of ML and XX, say those from mid to late 2000. Hopefully you'll notice something.

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    7. Top | #245
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      This one is complicated. To answer that would require going back more than a decade ago. Yet, I don't feel like writing so much. Maybe later when I feel like it. For the time being, check the really old videos of ML and XX, say those from mid to late 2000. Hopefully you'll notice something.
      I will check it when I have the time. Meanwhile, I’m supposing you are talking about them being able to forehand loop everything from any position in a way that they didn’t even need to bother about backhand at the time, maybe?

    8. Top | #246
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      Quote Originally Posted by lVegita View Post
      I will check it when I have the time. Meanwhile, I’m supposing you are talking about them being able to forehand loop everything from any position in a way that they didn’t even need to bother about backhand at the time, maybe?
      I think it is not. The game has changed a lot, players tries to counter/block the ball right after bounce so you do not have much time for running whole court with your FH (looked for the videos of Ma Lin). XX got tricked many times last years by players like Koki Niwa. LGL noticed few years ago that XX game is bit outdated.
      So it is not only you train a lot with same tactics but you must adapt to modern players. XX improved his BH and started using it much more then before which let him take better position in attack and gives more variation.

    9. Top | #247
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      The other thing to realize is that backhand technique has changed. Xu Xin is not playing the same backhand Wang Hao did. Wang Hao like I said was a very different player.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    11. Top | #248
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      Quote Originally Posted by lVegita View Post
      I will check it when I have the time. Meanwhile, I’m supposing you are talking about them being able to forehand loop everything from any position in a way that they didn’t even need to bother about backhand at the time, maybe?
      There's much more to it but I'll just keep it short. Before Rio 2016, the CNT held a 50-day closed training camp in Xiamen. In an exclusive interview with Sina Sports, XX shed some light on his BH development. I'll translate just the parts underlined.

      http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/news/sp...237430301.html
        新浪體育:這次在廈門的50天封閉集訓,最開心的、自己覺得有進步的是什麼地方?

        許昕:其實就是反手。教練問我這次封閉訓練最大的感觸在哪?我说手指頭有的地方原來發不上力,現在能發上力了。

        新浪體育:能展開说一下這個新技術嗎?

        許昕:其實也不是新技術,之前也在摸索,打了20年球終於知道哪個手指發力了。(笑)今天早上還跟吳(敬平)指導说,像王皓這種基礎,可能從小就能知道哪些手指發力對他的反手有幫助,自己也試圖去改正,改變自己的握拍和發力的感覺,但一直找不到一個方向,一直適應不了。

        這次突然靈光一現,覺得在訓練中感覺不錯,跟教練想的完全是吻合的。因為之前教練去说自己去做的時候,反差比較大。一直在改,也需要有一個適應的過程。今早跟教練说直拍橫打這個反手發力的感覺,有可能馬琳打了這麼多年退役以后都沒有感受到,因為這個還是比較難。我有幸在退役之前,找到了這個感覺。因為相對我的這個打法更接近馬琳一些,正手比較多,反手算是半路出家,一直想去彌補自己的缺點,而不是想去在反手上形成自己的體系或者说是優勢,一直處於半摸索半試探的這種感覺。


        新浪體育:你所说的“靈光一現”是什麼時候的事情?

        許昕:就是去日本公開賽之前三四天,突然在練球的時候感覺發力挺順。自己一開始感覺不是手指發力,只是發力舒服了一些能發上力了,但具體的沒找到感覺。第二天起來再練的時候還是這種感覺,慢慢就有了一些感觸,然后自己每天在練,把肌肉的記憶給練紮實了,在比賽中更能正常地運用出來。

        新浪體育:這兩點到底有什麼區別,發力和不發力的難點在哪裏?

        許昕:因為直拍的漏洞相對來说會多一些,一直在改規則對直拍越來越不利了。直拍的反手是一個致命的弱點,一旦對手抓不住直拍選手的弱點時,感覺全台都是他的優勢,但是一旦被抓住這個缺點的話,整場比賽活活用一個套路、一個技戰術就可以打死。
      Xu Xin: Actually, it is not a new technique. I've been exploring it. After playing for 20 years, I finally know which finger to use. (LOL) I told Wu Jingping this morning that, for someone like Wang Hao, perhaps he's known from a young age which fingers are helpful to his BH. I'm also trying to correct, to change my grip and the sense of exertion, but has not been able to find a direction, and has not been able to adapt.

      This time I had a light bulb moment. I felt good in training, exactly how the coach wanted. Since the gap between theory and practice is relatively large, I have been working on it and it takes time. I told the coach this morning that perhaps Ma Lin never got the sense of exertion for the RPB right even after retiring for so many years, because it is rather hard to grasp. I have the privilege of finding this feeling before I retire. Because my style is closer to that of Ma Lin, playing FH more, and the BH is only halfway decent. I've always wanted to make up for my shortcoming, instead of turning it into a primary part of my game or an advantage, and so I've had this feeling of half-exploring and half-probing.
      ...
      Sina Sports: What's the difference? What's so difficult about exerting force and not?

      XX: Because the loopholes are relatively greater for penholders, and the ever-changing rules make it more and more unfavorable for this grip. The BH of penholders is a fatal weakness. Whenever the opponent can't take advantage of this weakness, it feels as if the entire table is in your favor. But as soon as your weakness is exploited, it takes only 1 setplay or 1 tactic to kill you throughout the entire match.

      ------------------------------------I'm a line------------------------------------

      As many witnessed in the team final of Rio 2016, Mizutani did exactly what XX described in the last passage, where his BH was totally shut out. Same thing in the match against Gauzy at the WTTC 2019. One thing in common here is the majors where everyone is in beast mode. Given all the above, I'm still not sold on what happened at this ATTC.
      Last edited by zeio; 09-24-2019 at 06:32 PM.

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    13. Top | #249
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      There's much more to it but I'll just keep it short. Before Rio 2016, the CNT held a 50-day closed training camp in Xiamen. In an exclusive interview with Sina Sports, XX shed some light on his BH development. I'll translate just the parts underlined.

      http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/news/sp...237430301.html

      Xu Xin: Actually, it is not a new technique. I've been exploring it. After playing for 20 years, I finally know which finger to use. (LOL) I told Wu Jingping this morning that, for someone like Wang Hao, perhaps he's known from a young age which fingers are helpful to his BH. I'm also trying to correct, to change my grip and the sense of exertion, but has not been able to find a direction, and has not been able to adapt.

      This time I had a light bulb moment. I felt good in training, exactly how the coach wanted. Since the gap between theory and practice is relatively large, I have been working on it and it takes time. I told the coach this morning that perhaps Ma Lin never got the sense of exertion for the RPB right even after retiring for so many years, because it is rather hard to grasp. I have the privilege of finding this feeling before I retire. Because my style is closer to that of Ma Lin, playing FH more, and the BH is only halfway decent. I've always wanted to make up for my shortcoming, instead of turning it into a primary part of my game or an advantage, and so I've had this feeling of half-exploring and half-probing.
      ...
      Sina Sports: What's the difference? What's so difficult about exerting force and not?

      XX: Because the loopholes are relatively greater for penholders, and the ever-changing rules make it more and more unfavorable for this grip. The BH of penholders is a fatal weakness. Whenever the opponent can't take advantage of this weakness, it feels as if the entire table is in your favor. But as soon as your weakness is exploited, it takes only 1 setplay or 1 tactic to kill you throughout the entire match.

      ------------------------------------I'm a line------------------------------------

      As many witnessed in the team final of Rio 2016, Mizutani did exactly what XX described in the last passage, where his BH was totally shut out. Same thing in the match against Gauzy at the WTTC 2019. One thing in common here is the majors where everyone is in beast mode. Given all the above, I'm still not sold on what happened at this ATTC.
      I think the interview is outdated. What Xu Xin is doing with his backhand now shows he finally understands what this plastic ball is about. The interview was more relevant for when the Chiquita still had some single shot effectiveness for point scoring with the crappy DHS balls and low bounce.

    14. Top | #250
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      The ball is out of the picture here.

      We're talking about an age-old tactic that has stood the test of time. It never gets old. "調正壓反" is self-evident, literally "draw to FH and press on BH" and vice versa.

      That's what Mizutani used in Rio 2016. Same for Niwa in ATTC 2017, as pointed out by none other than himself.

      http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pin...y1765601.shtml
        来到混合采访区,丹羽孝希被中国媒体团团围住,在中国籍教练王锐的帮忙下,他简单道出获胜的关键所在:“许昕作为直板选手反手是弱点。我先搏到对方的正手后,再压制他的反手,这个战术贯彻地很充分;接发球主要以拧起来为主,虽然对方会发我的反手长球,但我没有太受长球的干扰,还是主动地去拧台内球。只要我抓住主动权,就会有机会赢得比赛。”
      "As a penholder, XX's BH is a weakpoint. First I took a chance on his FH, and then put pressure on his BH. I carried this tactic out to a T. I used mainly chiquita for receiving. Though he served long to my BH, it didn't affect me too much. I still chiquita the short serve actively. As long as I took the initiative, there would be a chance to win the match."



      Below's an excerpt taken from the 2019/06 issue of Table Tennis World, where Li Xiaodong and Liu Wei summed up the match b/w XX and Gauzy. Translating only the part underlined.

      http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/sports/...r0348845.shtml
        在歐洲運動員中,西蒙是一名兼具爆發力和手感的年輕選手,近兩年的表現比較突出。許昕之前與西蒙有過交手,知道對方的衝擊力很強,所以剛一開局就採取了站在球檯中間位發球的戰術,試圖用兩面上手搶攻佔得先機。西蒙對這種變化顯然有所準備,接發球時表現得心很定,而且採取的對策也非常清晰:用輕力量的球控制許昕的反手位,用暴衝發力攻擊許昕的正手位,這套戰術在對陣左手運動員時是非常實用的。

        許昕在首局對對方的擊球質量預估不足,正手銜接的失誤率也比較高,因此並沒有贏得主動。從第二局開始,他做了兩點調整,第一是加強正手使用率,而且緊盯對方的反手位連續施壓;第二是加強擊球的節奏變化,忽長忽短,讓西蒙對不上點兒。西蒙在被許昕調動時,站位不像首局那麼從容,回球的失誤也多了起來。

        儘管被許昕連扳兩局,但西蒙打得並不下風,尤其在第三局尾局落後時表現得非常頑強,進而堅定了他的信心。第四局,西蒙在堅持既定戰術的前提下,又增加了發球偷襲和臺內控制的變化,許昕在這局主動迎前擊球的意識不夠強烈,以至連續拉丟了幾個關鍵的機會球,被對手追平比分。

        第五局是本場比賽的轉折點,許昕在8:3領先的大好局勢下被對手逆轉。開局之後,許昕表現得很強勢,他換到側身位發球,落點直逼對方正手小三角,並有意讓對方先拉起來,然後自己再反拉得分。正手防線被穿,給西蒙造成了很大壓力,很快他就陷入了連續丟分的窘境。然而許昕在大比分領先時打得不夠緊湊,擊球節奏又慢了下來,西蒙抓住這個瞬間的時機開始反擊,特別是在追分時用了很多“花招兒”,比如反手側剌式的接發球、中遠臺低空削球等,成功干擾了許昕的銜接和心態。比分來到9平後,西蒙在發球輪大膽突變,先是果斷偷長,後又在近臺正手發力快挑,乾脆利落地拿下兩分,徹底把局勢扭轉了過來。


      雙方第五局得分走勢雙方第五局得分走勢

        第六局,許昕在重壓之下表現得雖然頑強,但技戰術並不主動,他來回調整發球站位,但一直沒有起到良好的效果;正手的進攻落點比較保守,反手的質量又不能形成得分。反觀西蒙,在局面佔優時,他的每一板球仍然打得非常具有針對性,而且堅決不手軟,連續給對手施壓,尤其在錯失賽點的情況下還敢果斷髮力擰拉,確實發揮得更加出色。
      Xu Xin had played with Simon before. Knowing that the opponent's impact is very strong, XX started out by serving in the middle of the table, to take the initiative by looping from both sides. Simon was apparently prepared for this change. He displayed great confidence in receiving the serve, and the countermeasures taken were abundantly clear: he used soft shots to pin down XX’s BH and power loops to attack XX’s FH. This tactic is very practical when playing against left-handed players.


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    16. Top | #251
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      This one is complicated. To answer that would require going back more than a decade ago. Yet, I don't feel like writing so much. Maybe later when I feel like it.
      Let's send zeio some cash.

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    18. Top | #252
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      The ball is out of the picture here.

      We're talking about an age-old tactic that has stood the test of time. It never gets old. "調正壓反" is self-evident, literally "draw to FH and press on BH" and vice versa.

      That's what Mizutani used in Rio 2016. Same for Niwa in ATTC 2017, as pointed out by none other than himself.

      http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pin...y1765601.shtml

      "As a penholder, XX's BH is a weakpoint. First I took a chance on his FH, and then put pressure on his BH. I carried this tactic out to a T. I used mainly chiquita for receiving. Though he served long to my BH, it didn't affect me too much. I still chiquita the short serve actively. As long as I took the initiative, there would be a chance to win the match."



      Below's an excerpt taken from the 2019/06 issue of Table Tennis World, where Li Xiaodong and Liu Wei summed up the match b/w XX and Gauzy. Translating only the part underlined.

      http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/sports/...r0348845.shtml

      Xu Xin had played with Simon before. Knowing that the opponent's impact is very strong, XX started out by serving in the middle of the table, to take the initiative by looping from both sides. Simon was apparently prepared for this change. He displayed great confidence in receiving the serve, and the countermeasures taken were abundantly clear: he used soft shots to pin down XX’s BH and power loops to attack XX’s FH. This tactic is very practical when playing against left-handed players.


      Part of the reason the draw to the forehand strategy works is that Xu Xin was always looking to play a forehand and unwilling to open with his backhand so he had to cover larger distances when given the forehand. I think the Gauzy result will be hard to replicate but we will see.

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    20. Top | #253
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      There's much more to it but I'll just keep it short. Before Rio 2016, the CNT held a 50-day closed training camp in Xiamen. In an exclusive interview with Sina Sports, XX shed some light on his BH development. I'll translate just the parts underlined.

      http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/news/sp...237430301.html

      Xu Xin: Actually, it is not a new technique. I've been exploring it. After playing for 20 years, I finally know which finger to use. (LOL) I told Wu Jingping this morning that, for someone like Wang Hao, perhaps he's known from a young age which fingers are helpful to his BH. I'm also trying to correct, to change my grip and the sense of exertion, but has not been able to find a direction, and has not been able to adapt.

      This time I had a light bulb moment. I felt good in training, exactly how the coach wanted. Since the gap between theory and practice is relatively large, I have been working on it and it takes time. I told the coach this morning that perhaps Ma Lin never got the sense of exertion for the RPB right even after retiring for so many years, because it is rather hard to grasp. I have the privilege of finding this feeling before I retire. Because my style is closer to that of Ma Lin, playing FH more, and the BH is only halfway decent. I've always wanted to make up for my shortcoming, instead of turning it into a primary part of my game or an advantage, and so I've had this feeling of half-exploring and half-probing.
      ...
      Sina Sports: What's the difference? What's so difficult about exerting force and not?

      XX: Because the loopholes are relatively greater for penholders, and the ever-changing rules make it more and more unfavorable for this grip. The BH of penholders is a fatal weakness. Whenever the opponent can't take advantage of this weakness, it feels as if the entire table is in your favor. But as soon as your weakness is exploited, it takes only 1 setplay or 1 tactic to kill you throughout the entire match.

      ------------------------------------I'm a line------------------------------------

      As many witnessed in the team final of Rio 2016, Mizutani did exactly what XX described in the last passage, where his BH was totally shut out. Same thing in the match against Gauzy at the WTTC 2019. One thing in common here is the majors where everyone is in beast mode. Given all the above, I'm still not sold on what happened at this ATTC.
      Thanks, zeio, this really enlightened me.
      Turns out RPB is way more complex than I thought, and looks like you have to figure out your own technique rather than having someone telling you how to do it.

    21. The Following 3 Users Like lVegita's Post:

      Shine (09-26-2019),Takkyu_wa_inochi (10-02-2019),zeio (09-25-2019)

    22. Top | #254
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      Let's send zeio some cash.
      Thank you for your donation. I appreciate it!

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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Part of the reason the draw to the forehand strategy works is that Xu Xin was always looking to play a forehand and unwilling to open with his backhand so he had to cover larger distances when given the forehand. I think the Gauzy result will be hard to replicate but we will see.
      There. As he said after the closed training in that 2016 interview, his BH is half-baked and it still shows to this date. Deep down, he just doesn't have enough faith in it. He'd still fall back to stepping around when it matters the most. Therefore, Gauzy's win might be one-shot but I won't be surprised if it happens again in a different scenario.
      Last edited by zeio; 09-25-2019 at 06:38 PM.

    24. Top | #256
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      There. As he said after the closed training in that 2016 interview, his BH is half-baked and it still shows to this date. Deep down, he just doesn't have enough faith in it. He'd still fall back to stepping around when it matters the most. Therefore, Gauzy's win might be one-shot but I won't be surprised if it happens again in a different scenario.
      You are 100% correct but I think he has finally realized that there are players who he will not be able to beat consistently unless he opens and counters with the backhand. The Gauzy loss was probably the last straw.

    25. Top | #257
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      I'm certain that he knows as I've read and heard this time and time again from not just fans but those close to XX.

      Like he said, the gap between theory and practice...

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