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    1. Top | #1
      CroneOne is offline
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      Forehand start up loop

      Hello, has anyone seen any decent video on optimal forehand and mechanics against deep push? I've seen the backhand videos out there but Google isn't returning much.

    2. Top | #2
      johnh is offline
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      I’ve just started watching a YouTube a Korean channel “Sejun Table Tennis Club”. The latest videos have sub-titles.


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    4. Top | #3
      Lula is offline
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      In general
      More open angle, ar least in the beginning
      Loop more upward
      Bend the legs and Use the body. Like you are liftning something heavy. Stop with the body.
      Work with the forearm, accelerate fast and stop the motion.

      Of the ball goes out there is less spin in the ball, loop more forward or and close angle.

      If the ball goes in the net, you need to open angle, bend more and work with the legs, loop more upward or brush faster more explosive. Can also be that you Do not stop the Motion. Something of this.

      But it would be much easier If you post a video and or you explain What the problem is.

      Good luck.

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    6. Top | #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by CroneOne View Post
      Hello, has anyone seen any decent video on optimal forehand and mechanics against deep push? I've seen the backhand videos out there but Google isn't returning much.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFvA...&index=12&t=0s

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      CroneOne (01-10-2020)

    8. Top | #5
      lVegita is offline
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    10. Top | #6
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Brush the ball when it begins to come down. It is easier that way. From there progress to different timings of contact.

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    12. Top | #7
      Gary Buck is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      Brush the ball when it begins to come down. It is easier that way. From there progress to different timings of contact.
      As a relative beginner, I have been working hard on this for quite a long time. It is taking me much longer than I ever expected. I watched all these great videos, and practiced hard at it, and thought I was doing it right, but the progress was been very slow. But yogi_bear's advice is what made the difference: the focus on brushing the ball as thin as I could, just after the top of the bounce. Brush thinner, then thinner, for more and more spin. Now it is starting to happen--still a long, long way to go, but the focus on brushing the ball was the key for me. And I am having so much fun with this; it has opened up so many other avenues to a far more spinny game. Great fun!

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    14. Top | #8
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      https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo...il/006640.html
      This is the accompanying article with much more detail. Google Translate makes it relatively clear.

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    16. Top | #9
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary Buck View Post
      As a relative beginner, I have been working hard on this for quite a long time. It is taking me much longer than I ever expected. I watched all these great videos, and practiced hard at it, and thought I was doing it right, but the progress was been very slow. But yogi_bear's advice is what made the difference: the focus on brushing the ball as thin as I could, just after the top of the bounce. Brush thinner, then thinner, for more and more spin. Now it is starting to happen--still a long, long way to go, but the focus on brushing the ball was the key for me. And I am having so much fun with this; it has opened up so many other avenues to a far more spinny game. Great fun!
      Check this video. I am the one giving instruction. Check the position, contact and body movement.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6diZVBQcIGw

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    18. Top | #10
      CroneOne is offline
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      Thanks for the advice @Lula. It's not a problem for me to get the ball back, I'm more so looking at increasing the quality of the shot to make it more difficult for the opponent. They are obviously looking for me to put up a rushed and weak forehand with a good, dig, long push. I'm looking for a good antidote. There's lots of great info for me to look at here. Cheers!
      Last edited by CroneOne; 01-10-2020 at 07:19 PM.

    19. Top | #11
      mart1nandersson is online now
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      Lula’s advice is very very good but don’t forget that pushing the ball back is always an option.

    20. Top | #12
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is online now
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      It’s one of the more difficult shot of TT and I’m struggling as well and trying to improve.
      The first thing is that quick footwork is essential. You can’t make those shots consistently just with the arm but have to use your body and legs.

      A good stance is essential legs apart , use your waist, try to make the backswing early and wait. Try to swing not just upwards but forward as well with a swing near tangent to the ball trajectory to brush it more instead of hitting it.

      I noticed one reason I miss this shot is I’m caught by the length of the ball when I’m too close from the table and as I step back the weight on my right foot is on my heel instead of my toe so I lose my balance. Another reason is if I’m on BH side and opponent pushes on FH side, as I step to the FH side I lose my stance and both legs are too close to each other and/or my upper body goes upwards before executing the shot.

      Keeping the good stance to be able to use the body is the most important

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    22. Top | #13
      Lula is offline
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      How high level Do you play at? Need to come up to atleast third highest division here to meet players that can loop back your loop on a regular basis.

      Or your loop is not good enough.

      Try accelerating, explode more and stop better at ball contact.

      Also If you keep the ball low, vary the placement, spin and power and get the ball far away on Their table i can almost guarantee they can not loop back and win the point.

      I also feel that If you know that they Will push long in your forehand, then you have the advantage because you know where the ball is going.

      If you are not good at opening against backspin o advice you to either practice it or to serve and return so you Do not get the open against backspin.

      I use short pimple on forehand so i work hard on getting topspin to play against since i am not as good against backspin.

    23. Top | #14
      brokenball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by CroneOne View Post
      Hello, has anyone seen any decent video on optimal forehand and mechanics against deep push? I've seen the backhand videos out there but Google isn't returning much.
      There is good advice above. The key is don't reach forward to hit the ball. Wait for the ball and make an upwards stroke to counter the back spin.

    24. Top | #15
      Der_Echte is online now
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      There are several ways to strike the heavy underspin ball and they all can work well, it is a matter of what you want to do. You have fast, medium, and slow loop.

      Slow loop is the safest and easiest to do. Every loop position, balance, and leverage is needed to make the necessary explosion to transfer energy to ball and overcome/continue spin. Key point to slow loop is position, allow ball to drop, even below table if needed and explode mostly up - more upwards vs heavier spin. You can keep a looser wrist at first, and as impact becomes better timed, you can firm up grip right at impact. Blade speed, angle, and vertical explosion are key. You cannot do any of these loops out of position or balance/leverage.

      Medium loop you are impacting ball a little more direct, only a little more, you are opening blade a little more and swinging forward more. Best to take ball not too long after top of bounce.

      Fast loop you have to open blade, but REALLY make explosive forward BANG into the ball explosion. Best to take the ball really early on rise while it still has vertical energy - this allows you to use a more forward swing for more speed component of power.

      A lot of modern table tennis is built around taking the ball early and playing fast close to the table... but it isn't an absolute. Any shot sucks if it doesn't land. If you can make a slow heavy loop land 80%+ of the time in a match and trouble opponent, then it is an outstanding match shot and you have no need to play macho man table tennis... at least not immediately... although it would be a good strategic development goal to learn looping at all three speeds to better handle more situations and have more tactical options.
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    26. Top | #16
      langel is offline
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      There is a great difference between "a deep push" and "a heavy backspin".
      The OP is asking for a FH loop opening on a deep push.
      The push would not have neither the spin amount, nor the arch and rebounce height of the heavy backspin cut shown in post#5. Usually it will have less, or even no spin, with flatter arch and low rebounce height.
      A deep push to the forehand has to be considered as an invitation for a top spin loop/attack. It means the opponent is ready to attack/counter attack. So the placement of the return is more important than the spin quality. Don't try to loop with max spin, but loop low and out of his best zone of comfort, then prepare to attack.

    27. Top | #17
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      I think I would start with the exercise that yogi_bear suggested, to make sure you get on the right track with brushing, acceleration and body movement. If you don't get this right, all weird things may happen like bending to the side, moving sideways or even stopping in the middle of the stroke.

      For me, it also matters the brushing loop has a decent forward component to not make the shot too easy to receive, but work on one thing at a time

      Oh yeah, and be confident. Commit to the stroke and do not mind if the ball goes into the net or over the table, or if you look silly. I always see people learning this stroke being too careful, caressing the ball and worried about making mistakes. Find a decent training partner that also wants to learn the technique, or someone who is willing to do some exercises with you.

    28. Top | #18
      CroneOne is offline
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      Der Echte - good advice. I completely forgot about the slower spinny loop and varying the contact times. I think I've been stuck on the low to net, fast...most risky loop. Tried some slow spinnies at the club with success today. The nice thing about the slower spinny is that you have more time and if you are playing more defensive players they have deal with that spin and kick defensively. @langel yes the low, fast long push is what I'm talking about. I think that I need to give myself more space from the table. I think that I'm getting jammed, not having my stroke ready early enough and being too close to the endline. It's quite an effective shot if you can hit the endline with a low, long dig push. Need to learn it myself.

    29. Top | #19
      louisd8466 is offline
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      You can also look at how players loop against long inverted pips, they have to put extra brushing on their loops to overcome the backspin.

    30. Top | #20
      Der_Echte is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by CroneOne View Post
      Der Echte - good advice. I completely forgot about the slower spinny loop and varying the contact times. I think I've been stuck on the low to net, fast...most risky loop. Tried some slow spinnies at the club with success today. The nice thing about the slower spinny is that you have more time and if you are playing more defensive players they have deal with that spin and kick defensively. @langel yes the low, fast long push is what I'm talking about. I think that I need to give myself more space from the table. I think that I'm getting jammed, not having my stroke ready early enough and being too close to the endline. It's quite an effective shot if you can hit the endline with a low, long dig push. Need to learn it myself.
      Yeah, Langel right, you asked about a sudden, deep push...

      IF you are in position, you just get down, wait for the right moment, and explode. You have all the options I described available. If not in position, just slide there and make your shot. The ball isn't gunna drop if you are stuck near the table, so the slow loop stroke would need a little adjustment over the one letting it drop (Wrist looser swing a little more forward wit a little less open blade than the "let drop" stroke.

      A safer way to cope with that sudden deep push (this also happens on serve receive sometimes) is to LOOSEN wrist and arm, use a short stroke with less power STAY LOOSE. That is a very safe option to receive that ball and make at least some pressure.

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