Back to Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 27 of 27
  1. Gozo is offline
    says May the Spin be with you!
     
    Established TTD Member 99 186
    Gozo's Avatar
    Gozo is offline
    says May the Spin be with you!
     
    Established TTD Member 186 99
    #21
    Disclaimer: I am not a student of engineering nor physical sciences.

    All the above scientific talk or smart talk makes me goes bonkers and produces headache trying to understand them. However, my very simple man in the street observation, Timo Boll & Xu Xin two of those very well known having super spinny FH return. Timo uses T05 hard which is a hard sponge on a non-tacky rubber whereas XX uses DHS Skyline which is a hard sponge on a tacky topsheet. Both produces very spinny return. Why is it that one says using softer sponge makes the return spinnier? I mean if that is the case, what is stopping them from using softer sponge? This smart talk is really confusing me....😥

  2. LordPippington is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 213 307
    L
    LordPippington is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 307 213

    User Info Menu


    May 2016
    United States
    307
    213
    792
    Read 0 Reviews
    #22
    I thought timo is using dignics 09c now? A harder sponge with slightly tacky top?

  3. brokenball is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 406 903
    B
    brokenball is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 903 406

    User Info Menu

    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Disclaimer: I am not a student of engineering nor physical sciences.

    All the above scientific talk or smart talk makes me goes bonkers and produces headache trying to understand them. However, my very simple man in the street observation, Timo Boll & Xu Xin two of those very well known having super spinny FH return. Timo uses T05 hard which is a hard sponge on a non-tacky rubber whereas XX uses DHS Skyline which is a hard sponge on a tacky topsheet. Both produces very spinny return. Why is it that one says using softer sponge makes the return spinnier? I mean if that is the case, what is stopping them from using softer sponge? This smart talk is really confusing me....😥
    I am not confused.
    The pros are excellent athletes but they are not engineers. Engineers think in terms of isolating problems and optimizing them. The OP has question about spin and serves. This would require a relatively easy test i posted above. The best rubber for generating spin would be independent of the player. A good serving rubber would have grip but not be too bouncy because then the ball will bounce too high. The down side is that this rubber may not be good for playing back from the table where bouncy rubbers may be better. Having the right spin to speed ratio could be optimized but that would depend how far back from the table you play . When there are many things to optimize then there are trade offs. Engineers use a cost function to find the right balance. Most of the time, this is determined by constraints but sometimes preferences.
    TT players have preferences only.

  4. Brs is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 665 635
    B
    Brs is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 635 665

    User Info Menu


    Oct 2015
    Christmas Island
    635
    665
    1893
    Read 0 Reviews
    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I am not confused.
    The pros are excellent athletes but they are not engineers. Engineers think in terms of isolating problems and optimizing them. The OP has question about spin and serves. This would require a relatively easy test i posted above. The best rubber for generating spin would be independent of the player. A good serving rubber would have grip but not be too bouncy because then the ball will bounce too high. The down side is that this rubber may not be good for playing back from the table where bouncy rubbers may be better. Having the right spin to speed ratio could be optimized but that would depend how far back from the table you play . When there are many things to optimize then there are trade offs. Engineers use a cost function to find the right balance. Most of the time, this is determined by constraints but sometimes preferences.
    TT players have preferences only.

    And that's why all the top pros are engineers! Oh wait ...


  5. YV13 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 8 46
    Y
    YV13 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 46 8
    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by alextudor26
    Hi guys. Yesterday i got my first "pro" blade done let s say, and it is made with stiga infinity vps v, with rakza x on fh and tibhar mxp on bh (45-47 hardness version) both in max thickness. I was playing before with some bad wood blade with cheap chinesse sticky rubbers which i found out they where 47 degrees hardness, 2.0 or max on fh and something thinner on bh. I liked my spinny serves with the one that i had before, today when i first tested this one i don't know if it is because first try or what but i couldn t get any spin at all in serves or game because of the little dwell time. On atacks it works brilliant, so much speed when i hit the ball. Before i was using all my body to get topspin atack and brush the ball now i just hit the ball and has a lot of speed. My question is, how to get more spin? Is it because i m not used to it and should i just practice more and also the sponge gets softer while playing more and get used more to the blade? Or it s a lost cause and i can t get more spin with this because the sponge is hard and rubber is not tacky? I will be patient, i m not the one who gives up but a question that i should have put soft rubbers just pops in my mind.. (changing the rubbers is not an option) i guess i m expecting a technical advice? Don t know, but i m waiting for your thoughts on this

    Sticky Chinese rubbers make ball "stick" to them on the contact for longer amount of time and need more fine brushing technique and spin can be great but they require more physical effort to play with them especially harder ones ( that is what my coach told me when he tried to play with Hurricane 3 and it does not have big catapult like European rubbers). New European rubbers are griping the ball well too but they are much more bouncy than Chinese rubbers ( I played with Joola Dynaryz AGR and ACC and they both could generate very good high spin). Tihbar and Yasaka should be similar, maybe you need to adjust bat angle or better talk to the coach to make some adjustments and eventually you will get used to them . Now last few year European manufacturers started to develop hybrid semi sticky rubbers, I play with Nittaku Sieger PK50 on FH and Joola Golden Tango PS on BH, both 50 degrees and I like them a lot (I'm just intermediate player though, take my review with a grain of salt).You can find some in depth reviews on the rubbers you are using since the are popular especially MXP. Also you can upload video of you playing and some advanced level players on the forum could give you an advice.

    Last edited by YV13; 09-06-2021 at 06:44 PM.

  6. antonymous is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 1 13
    A
    antonymous is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 13 1

    User Info Menu


    Apr 2021
    Russian Federation
    13
    1
    0
    Read 0 Reviews
    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LordPippington
    I thought timo is using dignics 09c now? A harder sponge with slightly tacky top?

    That's true. He plays it both on FH and BH for quite some time now. One can hear the story behind this rubber from Timo himself at YouTube, /watch?v=Bc0z7K7c2ww (can't post links yet, sorry)


  7. alextudor26 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 11
    A
    alextudor26 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 11 0

    User Info Menu


    Aug 2021
    Romania
    11
    0
    0
    Read 0 Reviews
    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope
    That's the difference of tacky rubbers and non-tacky rubbers. Tacky rubbers allow you to thinly brush the balls to spin them, but same movement may make the balls slide on non-tacky rubbers. And hard non-tacky rubbers just make it worse. If you don't want to change the rubber, you can only do more practices to get used to it.

    Yea that's pretty the thing that happenes here i went from pretty hard tacky rubber to same hardness i think but more expensive and oofensive rubber non tacky(also changed the blade to a more offensive one) and it felt non-spinny. I advise EVERY player on this forum if they buy a good blade to choose soft rubbers for example as i chose rakza x go for rakza soft even though i didn t try that one yet i m sure it would have been more suited and i bet it is enough powerfull for every beginner to intermidiate competition player. Unless you re not advanced i m sure you don t need hard rubbers. I got a little used to the blade now but that s my opinion. And if any pro bugs in his head wishes to disagree this just stop right there and f*king hit that ball harded if you have 50 pounds. If any young man sees this and wishes to buy a good blade don t do what i did, don t go for hard rubbers, it will give you nothing. Soft can give you spin and also power if you hit the ball harder when you need to. You need a lot of power and good technique to control hard rubber and the problem is it s just not suited for amateur to intermidiate play which is close to mid distance. Unless you play in pro league to get to bigger distance it s a waste of money. I wish i had tried similar blades before to the club where i play but i didn t know anyone there i just played with my father which by the way beats my ass up with 30 $ both sheets put on a premade blade, and he is 130kgs(yes technique is the most important he played all his life with his friends). Just trust me on that new players to intermidiate and go for soft offensive rubbers and all round to offensive blades nothing more because it will not be for what you and your opponents play.


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Create a new Topic:
Title is required.