Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

suds79 · Dec 19, 2016

NextLevel said:
What you will largely be taking advantage of with your current set up are a couple of things:

1. The ability to play the ball short with strokes that people don't often see or read. For people with no short push or flick games, this will lead to pop up after pop up for the most part, or hitting balls into the net.
2. The ability to play the ball to wide angles - you can play the ball short and make it go towards the sidelines.
3. The inexperience players have with the way your equipment plays and your style works.

Yeah truer words have never been spoken. Funny how you're not there but you know exactly what's happening. Well done.

Point 1 is a big factor. It's mostly that people don't see or ever practice against an attacking LP stroke I think that throws them off. They just see Long Pips and assume passive, defensive shot. Plus they're used to a good low push backspin ball not to be attacked. There's definitely an element of surprise there. Point 3 you made also plays a factor here.

And Point 2 is a big one for me. Because my Long Pip swipe isn't really all that fast, I'm counting on putting it where they aren't. In time, I'd like to get a little more speed or pop with this stroke. I know it can be done as I've seen old-timer twiddling penholders do it... But generally they probably have about 30+ years of experience over me also.

All in good time.

Archosaurus · Dec 19, 2016

Today was a fantastic day. I practice some serves for the challenge and played with my partner during the evening.

I couldn't get any video, because quite literally everyone else except us had left the building. This is pissing me the hell off and I'm thinking of rigging together some kind of makeshift tripod so I don't need to rely on a 3rd person to film.

In terms of improvement, it's irrelevant if I start describing my experience as usual because it's easy to talk with no video, so I will say this:

My stance is better. Easier, more efficient. Much more pleasant and it works better: I will stick with it.

I am adding some whip into my strokes and succeeding. I had been watching Yamaguchi from World Rubber Market TV looping earlier today in the morning and on some shots I tried to copy the rhythm and let the arm go with a shorter, more controlled stroke, and it worked.

I learned that you can generate high spin without "trying" too hard. Actually a lot of spin and pace can be generated without breaking a sweat. Carl's comment about 160% effort has really made an impression on me. When I took it easier and slower and tried to just spin the ball up, I ended up actually hitting with more pace and spin into shots I would block before due to lack of confidence.

Of course this is all talk, but I am confident I will have improved at least 1% for the next time I manage to film video, hah.

Shuki · Dec 19, 2016

Archosaurus said:
I couldn't get any video, because quite literally everyone else except us had left the building. This is pissing me the hell off and I'm thinking of rigging together some kind of makeshift tripod so I don't need to rely on a 3rd person to film.

you don't need to explain to us why you couldn't get video arch

When I have a good day but don't record it, I talk about how I played well, playing above my level. Not that I put whip mechanics in my strokes and whatnot. The information you provide on your good days is information that entices curiosity and requires video to see if you're actually doing these things. If you say, I played well, beat someone I've never beaten, or came much closer than normal against this player or, players who usually keep the game close seemed very easy today. Nobody would ask for video.

on the other side of things, I haven't been able to play since friday

...
icy roads= bad for my car and it's tires with no treads
Sometimes wish I lived in the city and didn't have to drive 30 min to play. Probably could have spent some time working on my spin bounce. I really do want to break 100 =\

Probably won't be playing until after christmas. but I'll be lurking here for sure =]

SchemeSC · Dec 19, 2016

I've been working on my forehand lately, trying to recover the whip mechanics and timing that Brett liked from 6-7 months ago. Here's a vid taken from the front:

Archosaurus · Dec 19, 2016

@Shuki

I understand your point. I haven't seen my current whip on video, but based on the shadows I've filmed, it's not gonna be the kind of severity that people think about when they say "good whip mechanics".
I'm curious myself if I've actually added any in, or if it's something else. However I am entirely sure there is more quality than usual. I tested many times looping as per normal and looping this way into my partner's block, and he threw the better ones out in a way that I haven't seen before. SOMETHING is different.

Mechanics don't just appear on good days and disappear on bad days, so any of this should be present in the next video, to be viewed objectively. Of course, if I can accept missing more shots in exchange for more quality. It's been difficult but I'm gradually getting over the fear of missing.

@SchemeSC

Wow, 36 seconds!

NextLevel · Dec 19, 2016

Looks great, SchemeSC. Some advice I would like to give you but it could come across all wrong over the internet. But I will try anyways.

The main thing is to play around with the ball quality in terms of spin, speed and arc. Try to see if you can impart more spin sometimes and get a slower and safer ball with varying degrees of arc. My way of doing this reliably is instead of using my elbow mostly as a lever, I combine that with a circular rotation of the upper arm around the shoulder joint and also playing around with the contact point. I don't use circular rotation for power - that comes from my body rotation - I use it for spin to make sure that I am arcing the ball. If you don't want to do this, just try whipping into the ball with a more curved trajectory and a greater degree of brush. I say this because people who loop the ball at one speed all the time and don't train every day get surprised during a match when their stroke is not adapted to the opponent's level of backspin and not having the ability to adapt, they don't have any in-between shots with heavy spin to keep them consistent. They then resort to just pushing rather than opening with heavy spin and seeing if their opponent has a good counter to their heavy spin loop.

You are currently timing your coach's perfectly, but you aren't going to play your coach in matches and you aren't working on the in-between shots. I am encouraging you to do so. In between shots help your consistency especially when you don't have great footwork or lots of practice time. If you play them with heavy spin or spin variation, they give your opponents problems to solve as well. There are opponents who I try to power loop through and lose two games, then switch to opening with heavy spin and win the next three games. There are other opponents who I have played so much that I know that opening AND RALLYING with heavy spin is the only way, because driving into their blocks puts me under too much pressure and the heavy spin handcuffs them. Then there are opponents who are so good at dealing with purely heavy spin that I have to be precise with my location or put the ball past them.

NextLevel · Dec 19, 2016

suds79 said:
Yeah truer words have never been spoken. Funny how you're not there but you know exactly what's happening. Well done.

Point 1 is a big factor. It's mostly that people don't see or ever practice against an attacking LP stroke I think that throws them off. They just see Long Pips and assume passive, defensive shot. Plus they're used to a good low push backspin ball not to be attacked. There's definitely an element of surprise there. Point 3 you made also plays a factor here.

And Point 2 is a big one for me. Because my Long Pip swipe isn't really all that fast, I'm counting on putting it where they aren't. In time, I'd like to get a little more speed or pop with this stroke. I know it can be done as I've seen old-timer twiddling penholders do it... But generally they probably have about 30+ years of experience over me also.

All in good time.

I play in pip city you know (Philadelphia). We had a 2300 player well before my time who was a national 060 champ with your combo on a thick balsa shakehand racket, and I know one player who maxed out at 2300 who doesn't play as much who had an extremely tricky and off speed game with the same combo.

Playing for more speed with LP unless you are using the existing spin on the ball is generally not a reliable idea. But since you are using something with sponge, you might be able to get away with it. That said, the key is the ability to put away the sitting ball for you. If you develop a high level forehand with the short pips, that is what will drive your level. One player I think who switched from double inverted to your combo, though he is shakehand, is Shuja Jafar.

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 19, 2016

pingpongholic10 said:
for that member who mentioned something about penholders...

Very cool PPH!

I was busy friday night and over the weekend with family stuff, will try this tonight, but i got LP OX on my backside, may be very challenging LOL

May have to try on an old racket with 2 inverted at some point

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 19, 2016

OldschoolPenholder said:
Very cool PPH!

I was busy friday night and over the weekend with family stuff, will try this tonight, but i got LP OX on my backside, may be very challenging LOL

May have to try on an old racket with 2 inverted at some point

Not gonna work with LP. It will be a flat bounce or nothing if you have LP on one side.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Boogar · Dec 20, 2016

NextLevel said:
Looks great, SchemeSC. Some advice I would like to give you but it could come across all wrong over the internet. But I will try anyways.

The main thing is to play around with the ball quality in terms of spin, speed and arc. Try to see if you can impart more spin sometimes and get a slower and safer ball with varying degrees of arc. My way of doing this reliably is instead of using my elbow mostly as a lever, I combine that with a circular rotation of the upper arm around the shoulder joint and also playing around with the contact point. I don't use circular rotation for power - that comes from my body rotation - I use it for spin to make sure that I am arcing the ball. If you don't want to do this, just try whipping into the ball with a more curved trajectory and a greater degree of brush. I say this because people who loop the ball at one speed all the time and don't train every day get surprised during a match when their stroke is not adapted to the opponent's level of backspin and not having the ability to adapt, they don't have any in-between shots with heavy spin to keep them consistent. They then resort to just pushing rather than opening with heavy spin and seeing if their opponent has a good counter to their heavy spin loop.

You are currently timing your coach's perfectly, but you aren't going to play your coach in matches and you aren't working on the in-between shots. I am encouraging you to do so. In between shots help your consistency especially when you don't have great footwork or lots of practice time. If you play them with heavy spin or spin variation, they give your opponents problems to solve as well. There are opponents who I try to power loop through and lose two games, then switch to opening with heavy spin and win the next three games. There are other opponents who I have played so much that I know that opening AND RALLYING with heavy spin is the only way, because driving into their blocks puts me under too much pressure and the heavy spin handcuffs them. Then there are opponents who are so good at dealing with purely heavy spin that I have to be precise with my location or put the ball past them.

Another gold post from NL.
I know exactly what you mean by using the elbow more as a lever and the circular motion around the shoulder.
However i always thought that those shots were technically bad shots, even tho they were very effective a gave off a good feeling. I also like to use that kind of motion in a topspins to topspin duel, when i want to change the pace, spin and flight path of the ball.
Now that i hear this from you, I feel assured!

Ahh... i want to play so bad

had to take a little break because of my studies. Ahh it pains me to not be able to play.

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 20, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Not gonna work with LP. It will be a flat bounce or nothing if you have LP on one side.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Tell me about it ... I am da suck to begin with lol

Made a vid anyway

Wife calling, can't practice more for now ... 7 if you can call it 7... my oldschool ph grip won't work, had to use modern ph grip

ttd cc'ers, pls have a laugh at my expense!

Shuki · Dec 20, 2016

NextLevel said:
Looks great, SchemeSC. Some advice I would like to give you but it could come across all wrong over the internet. But I will try anyways.

The main thing is to play around with the ball quality in terms of spin, speed and arc. Try to see if you can impart more spin sometimes and get a slower and safer ball with varying degrees of arc. My way of doing this reliably is instead of using my elbow mostly as a lever, I combine that with a circular rotation of the upper arm around the shoulder joint and also playing around with the contact point. I don't use circular rotation for power - that comes from my body rotation - I use it for spin to make sure that I am arcing the ball. If you don't want to do this, just try whipping into the ball with a more curved trajectory and a greater degree of brush. I say this because people who loop the ball at one speed all the time and don't train every day get surprised during a match when their stroke is not adapted to the opponent's level of backspin and not having the ability to adapt, they don't have any in-between shots with heavy spin to keep them consistent. They then resort to just pushing rather than opening with heavy spin and seeing if their opponent has a good counter to their heavy spin loop.

You are currently timing your coach's perfectly, but you aren't going to play your coach in matches and you aren't working on the in-between shots. I am encouraging you to do so. In between shots help your consistency especially when you don't have great footwork or lots of practice time. If you play them with heavy spin or spin variation, they give your opponents problems to solve as well. There are opponents who I try to power loop through and lose two games, then switch to opening with heavy spin and win the next three games. There are other opponents who I have played so much that I know that opening AND RALLYING with heavy spin is the only way, because driving into their blocks puts me under too much pressure and the heavy spin handcuffs them. Then there are opponents who are so good at dealing with purely heavy spin that I have to be precise with my location or put the ball past them.

@arch, please dont incorporate any of this advice into your game or even read this post.

Sorry, just trying to counter your future posts

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 20, 2016

OldschoolPenholder said:
Tell me about it ... I am da suck to begin with lol

Made a vid anyway

Wife calling, can't practice more for now ... 7 if you can call it 7... my oldschool ph grip won't work, had to use modern ph grip

ttd cc'ers, pls have a laugh at my expense!

OldSchool, it's actually pretty good given you have a rubber on one side with NO GRIP and you can only really do this drill with a rubber WITH GRIP.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 20, 2016

Shuki said:
@arch, please dont incorporate any of this advice into your game or even read this post.

Sorry, just trying to counter your future posts

LOL. Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I can already hear those posts that you are trying to circumvent.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

NextLevel · Dec 20, 2016

Boogar said:
Another gold post from NL.
I know exactly what you mean by using the elbow more as a lever and the circular motion around the shoulder.
However i always thought that those shots were technically bad shots, even tho they were very effective a gave off a good feeling. I also like to use that kind of motion in a topspins to topspin duel, when i want to change the pace, spin and flight path of the ball.
Now that i hear this from you, I feel assured!

Ahh... i want to play so bad had to take a little break because of my studies. Ahh it pains me to not be able to play.

OF course it is inferior technique. The Chinese will tell you that. But you see it in a lot of good French and German players, especially the famous lefties. They still use more whip and body to back it up, but I use it as a variation or in certain situations. My main stroke is straight arm - variation helps in the sport.

You can get to a high level with inferior technique - just make sure you are choosing it consciously and it works for you. You can see baumschule's forehand for example - pretty powerful, but no one would quite teach it that way. But if you know you are consistent and getting effective whip and can rally and attack a lot of spins, do what is reasonable. I am too old to make everything about perfect technique. But I don't like teaching things that at least one high level player is not doing and high level players do use that forehand.

Archosaurus · Dec 20, 2016

@Shuki
@UpSideDownCarl

Whatever you do or say won't stop any future idiotic postings. For me to know what is idiotic and wrong and what is not, I need to post it first and get some heat, then figure it out half a year later, hahaha.

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 20, 2016

I may be recyling this quote:

“The years teach us much, which the days never knew.”

~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Archosaurus said:
@Shuki
@UpSideDownCarl

Whatever you do or say won't stop any future idiotic postings. For me to know what is idiotic and wrong and what is not, I need to post it first and get some heat, then figure it out half a year later, hahaha.

NextLevel · Dec 20, 2016

Latest standings.

1. Richie
2. Boogar
3. Jirrex
4. Shuki
5. Pingpongholic10
6. OldSchoolPenholder
7. SchemeSC

One more day of competition. If you want, you can PM me your email addresses.

Archosaurus · Dec 20, 2016

I will be submitting my competition videos later after Christmas, not for the competition but as challenge. I can't make it before the 21'st as I've managed to hurt my tricep while filming a table tennis skit for school.

I insisted that we do a warmup or I will not be very willing to do any bigger shots, but time was short, so whatever.

I smashed a few balls when cold and at some point I hurt my tricep. I think I was compensating far too much by using my lower arm as a lever as to not hurt my shoulder, and twisted something.

I don't want something like this to ever happen again, so when I can, I'm gonna crack down on my close to the net smashing form. I don't raise my shoulder enough, and it can cause injury like this.

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 20, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
OldSchool, it's actually pretty good given you have a rubber on one side with NO GRIP and you can only really do this drill with a rubber WITH GRIP.

Carl,

You are too kind! I had no control and it was all over!!

I don't know if they even count as 7 ... will see if i can try some more tonight just for the fun of it.

Thank you Carl (and Shuki and NL)!

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