A couple game videos, help me return serve better

[hclnnkhg]

If his opponent is like my penhold practice partner, high arc loops no matter how spinny they are just too easy to deal with, he would be able to angle block or punch it or heck even sidespin chopblock them with ease. Now if they were ultra spinny and low trajectory with varying length (like Timo Boll style loops), it'll be a nightmare for them. The problem is that it is not easy to consistently execute Timo Boll style slow loops with thin brush. I admire players who can do that, they have better eyesight and ball tracking skills than me. Personally I will miss the ball a lot trying to do this, I need my thick contact to stay consistent 😭

yes, I was thinking of Timo when I made my suggestions 😊

 

[Gozo Aruna]

"Opponent was using D09c and D64.",
You both can play with the cheapest rubber available on the planet; you both are very low level player. It's not the rubbers, you need to train more. Good luck.

Ouch! Touche!

 

[blahness]

"Opponent was using D09c and D64.",
You both can play with the cheapest rubber available on the planet; you both are very low level player. It's not the rubbers, you need to train more. Good luck.

I think this is a snarky and nasty post on this forum that is really not needed in our sport. I'm sorry but even if you are a pro player, words like this are unhelpful and discouraging.

 

[TensorBackhand]

"Opponent was using D09c and D64.",
You both can play with the cheapest rubber available on the planet; you both are very low level player. It's not the rubbers, you need to train more. Good luck.

Obviously you're just one of those guys, but whatever makes you happy.

Apart from being boring, you are just statistically wrong. If you took all the people in America who play TT at least once a month and put them on a normal curve, I believe I would be in the top 15-10%.

I believe my opponent here would be in the top 25%.

If you make $150,000 a year and are in the top 10% in income earners, you wouldn't complain about being low level earner. So being top 25% wouldn't really be considered low level player in TT.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Obviously you're just one of those guys, but whatever makes you happy.

Apart from being boring, you are just statistically wrong. If you took all the people in America who play TT at least once a month and put them on a normal curve, I believe I would be in the top 15-10%.

I believe my opponent here would be in the top 25%.

If you make $150,000 a year and are in the top 10% in income earners, you wouldn't complain about being low level earner. So being top 25% wouldn't really be considered low level player in TT.

How do you come up with this stats statement? This is not a snarky remark but a genuine question. TQ.

 

[TensorBackhand]

How do you come up with this stats statement? This is not a snarky remark but a genuine question. TQ.

Just an estimate. If you are over 2000, I think you would be in the top 5%. I think actually there is a statistical science to this rating. Is it called ELO rating? I think there is an official estimate of normal curve. Maybe somebody who knows the system (I think its copied from Chess?) can provide some accuracy here.

But there are probably 50-100 guys that show up in my little TT group every month, and I would probably be in the top 5 or top 10 in this group. So if you put all of our group onto a normal curve, that's where I would land.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Just scanning the internet, I found this statement, not sure how accurate it is:

In the USCF, a player who is +2000 is in the top 96.94th %ile. Again, that only includes players who have played in official USCF tournaments, which is a pretty small selection of players.

But it sounds about right to me.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Also found this from Chess site:

So some guy who is rated 1384 is in the top 13% of all players. The average is 1000.

 

[JJ Ng]

Just scanning the internet, I found this statement, not sure how accurate it is:

In the USCF, a player who is +2000 is in the top 96.94th %ile. Again, that only includes players who have played in official USCF tournaments, which is a pretty small selection of players.

But it sounds about right to me.

there is a reason many many players in the US are shooting to reach a rating of 2000. Getting there is an incredible feat. Once you get there, it is always easier to stay there.

I have been stuck at 1700 in like forever.....

 

[NDH]

"Opponent was using D09c and D64.",
You both can play with the cheapest rubber available on the planet; you both are very low level player. It's not the rubbers, you need to train more. Good luck.

Difficult to interpret tone and meaning from a text based comment written in a second (or third) language.

Amit, if you aren't aware, your comment comes across very badly, and reflects poorly on you as a person.

Someone of Michael's level can use whatever they want. He has the knowledge, experience of trying other equipment and ability to play with virtually any equipment.

You can always make arguments for the "worth" of something.

Is the price of Dignics worth it at X level? Well, arguably no.

But it's arguably not worth it to anyone unless they are close to Pro level (of which we don't have many/any players who regularly post on the forum who are at that level).

But if you can afford it, and it makes you happy, will it make you a worse player?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Either way, the comment just isn't necessary and adds nothing to the forum.

 

[Amit Mehta]

I would have probably made a very similar comment if those guys were playing in my club and during an informal conversation, Michael would have brought that up. I'm also quite sure that Michael and I would still be playing together in the club and would be having occasional beer together in the club too, because, I would have been rolling up my eyes and would have said that without a straight face.

Now that I re-read my comment many times, I agree that my comment was an exaggerated one, However, I still believe that bringing up that particular sentence at this level of play in my club won't give you a complacent response.

@TensorBackhand When you ask people to review, please be open to strong negative opinions. I am a computer programmer by profession, and many times (yes, many times) I am told on my face and/or in writing in plain English that "This is crap", "Ugly", "Eew", etc, (you get the motif here) from my Dutch colleagues and the same guys on other occasions would say "This looks good", "Nice", "Cool" etc. I am very happy to work with honest highly opinionated people. I love Table tennis a lot and I have very strong opinions about it, I hope you understand, where I am coming from; I was not trying to disrespect, *you*, but was just saying (an exaggerated one) what I *really* feel, when people at our levels (i don't want to go there if you will kick my ass or I will) talk about such equipments in that way.

 

[NextLevel]

If his opponent is like my penhold practice partner, high arc loops no matter how spinny they are just too easy to deal with, he would be able to angle block or punch it or heck even sidespin chopblock them with ease. Now if they were ultra spinny and low trajectory with varying length (like Timo Boll style loops), it'll be a nightmare for them. The problem is that it is not easy to consistently execute Timo Boll style slow loops with thin brush. I admire players who can do that, they have better eyesight and ball tracking skills than me. Personally I will miss the ball a lot trying to do this, I need my thick contact to stay consistent 😭

Just change your contact point on the ball, it's not as hard as you think. IT takes practice to get the quality, but it's usually a mental thing with respect to the consistency.

 

[NextLevel]

I would have probably made a very similar comment if those guys were playing in my club and during an informal conversation, Michael would have brought that up. I'm also quite sure that Michael and I would still be playing together in the club and would be having occasional beer together in the club too, because, I would have been rolling up my eyes and would have said that without a straight face.

Now that I re-read my comment many times, I agree that my comment was an exaggerated one, However, I still believe that bringing up that particular sentence at this level of play in my club won't give you a complacent response.

@TensorBackhand When you ask people to review, please be open to strong negative opinions. I am a computer programmer by profession, and many times (yes, many times) I am told on my face and/or in writing in plain English that "This is crap", "Ugly", "Eew", etc, (you get the motif here) from my Dutch colleagues and the same guys on other occasions would say "This looks good", "Nice", "Cool" etc. I am very happy to work with honest highly opinionated people. I love Table tennis a lot and I have very strong opinions about it, I hope you understand, where I am coming from; I was not trying to disrespect, *you*, but was just saying (an exaggerated one) what I *really* feel, when people at our levels (i don't want to go there if you will kick my ass or I will) talk about such equipments in that way.

The other issue with your statement is that it was just wrong, which makes the rudeness far jarring. NDH actually captured the reality far better. When a player knows how to play consistently with spin (and TensorBackhand clearly does, whatever you think of his game limitations), they can tell pretty well the effects of equipment on their game and what tradeoffs feel natural to them. We shouldn't confuse players who are searching for improvement in equipment despite immature technique with players with mature technique who EJ partly for fun but partly to understand their technique better.

But again, maybe you are a really good player/coach and you have developed really good players or developed yourself in a way that we can all learn from who got better regardless of using anything at the 1800+ level where TensorBackhand sits. Care to share? Since you say "At our levels", I presume you are the same level as TensorBackhand and you play about the same level regardless of what you use?

 

[NDH]

@TensorBackhand When you ask people to review, please be open to strong negative opinions.

I've re-read the thread, and you have not answered any of Michaels questions.

You've simply come on, made a completely unnecessary comment and made no attempt to help.

The equipment that Michael or his opponent are using play no part in how you give advice.

If you feel that other equipment would help them, then please feel free to suggest what you feel would be a suitable alternative, and in what way it would help.

Your justification for saying the comment is as equally poor as the comment itself

@NextLevel - I've seen Amit play (very briefly) and he's a solid player, not too dissimilar from Michael himself.

 

[NextLevel]

I've re-read the thread, and you have not answered any of Michaels questions.

You've simply come on, made a completely unnecessary comment and made no attempt to help.

The equipment that Michael or his opponent are using play no part in how you give advice.

If you feel that other equipment would help them, then please feel free to suggest what you feel would be a suitable alternative, and in what way it would help.

Your justification for saying the comment is as equally poor as the comment itself

@NextLevel - I've seen Amit play (very briefly) and he's a solid player, not too dissimilar from Michael himself.

Ah okay, it's just rudeness then.

 

[zeio]

How much multiball does the OP do?

You need to train at a higher intensity in order to sustain that level of intensity in those nice points. Multiball can achieve that even with a weaker partner. Your entire game will get a comprehensive boost, e.g. stroke, footwork, timing, speed, spin, power etc.

 

[TensorBackhand]

How much multiball does the OP do?

You need to train at a higher intensity in order to sustain that level of intensity in those nice points. Multiball can achieve that even with a weaker partner. Your entire game will get a comprehensive boost, e.g. stroke, footwork, timing, speed, spin, power etc.

I have 0 multiball experience. I wonder how helpful that would be. What multiball exercise in particular would help me?

I still feel like returning serve is my biggest weakness, particularly returning no-spin or slight underspin serves. I can imagine asking opponent to just do 100 no-spin serves to me and letting my flick them would be good practice.

The issue is heavy underspin serves can clearly be returned with a push. But it's those half-spin or no-spin balls that almost tempt you to do a more active stroke. Those shots give me very little margin for error

 

[hclnnkhg]

I have 0 multiball experience. I wonder how helpful that would be. What multiball exercise in particular would help me?

I still feel like returning serve is my biggest weakness, particularly returning no-spin or slight underspin serves. I can imagine asking opponent to just do 100 no-spin serves to me and letting my flick them would be good practice.

The issue is heavy underspin serves can clearly be returned with a push. But it's those half-spin or no-spin balls that almost tempt you to do a more active stroke. Those shots give me very little margin for error

Multiball is great in at least two aspects.

1. It saves a lot of time. Think about the difference between your fastest sustainable FH to FH warm up rally, and the speed of multiball feed (assuming the feeder is experienced to a certain degree). You don't need to pick up the ball between every reps, that avoids interrupting your rhythm.

2. It (sort of) takes your partner's skill level out of the equation. He may not be able to block back your powerloop in normal practice, but he doesn't need to if he is feeding multiball.

Obviously it can take a while to get competent in feeding multiball, and you only get the benefit from that point on.

 

[zeio]

Anything. Doesn't have to be specific. Just do multiball.

 

[blahness]

I have 0 multiball experience. I wonder how helpful that would be. What multiball exercise in particular would help me?

I still feel like returning serve is my biggest weakness, particularly returning no-spin or slight underspin serves. I can imagine asking opponent to just do 100 no-spin serves to me and letting my flick them would be good practice.

The issue is heavy underspin serves can clearly be returned with a push. But it's those half-spin or no-spin balls that almost tempt you to do a more active stroke. Those shots give me very little margin for error

With ambiguous no spin or pure underspin serves, best to contact a bit more towards the side of the ball, it will help you control the ball a lot more in pushes as well as flicks. Try to make the dwell time more. If you contact purely at the back of the ball then your margin of error will be quite low for these serves.