All about blade sealing

[hipnotic]

moisture and specifically water does sip into the blade and the handle, collecting experimental evidence about this is extremely easy.

Then collect it and show it please. I stand by my words because it was something I have tested. If you properly dry the blade face after gluing or sealing, no water seeps into the blade. Any chances in moisture content are through the end grain. Water seeps into handles because there is a much more prolonged exposure, and stills it doesn't penetrate that much. If you cut a old and used handle in half, the wood inside will still be nice and fresh.

the most important ones for tt are mechanical enhancements. air drying is not aging, it's just stacking the lumber, covering it and leaving it outside(maybe some lumber providers refer to this as aging and if that is the case, they suck). exposing wood to lots of man made moisture/uv cycles is aging. the benefit of that is that you get the wood dimensionally stable in as low as 1 year(as opposed to 4 years if you just air dry it).

aren't the benefits of dimensionally stable wood obvious for tt blades manufacturing?

Ok, because in your initial statement you said "or", which implies that both processes work the same. But please show some practical application, someone brand marketing this strategy, a blade model, whatever. I surely don't know everything and I may be completely wrong, but I've never seen this applied to TT blades.

Properly Kiln dried wood is already dimensionally stable and a much faster process, so no, I don't see any advantage in this.

 

[turbozed]

nice long explanation. i just would like to add that moisture does sip into blades and probably does change the "feeling". you can easily test this by dehydrating a blade that's seen at least 6-7 months of use. if you measure the weight of the blade before and after, you'll find 1-5 grams are missing after the dehydration process.

most of the moisture gets in to the core because it's made out of low density wood, the top veneers are indeed really hard as far as wood goes and some of them are highly water repellent(japanese make bathtubs out of hinoki)

I'm not sure if your dehydration experiment actually proves the point that the blade has soaked in moisture from long term use. In this example, it could just be the moisture from current ambient humidity that's being removed by the dehydrator. That would just support @hipnotic claim that the wood constantly intakes and expels moisture to reach a balance with current conditions.

Given how fast my washed chopsticks dry out after being fully soaked in water for a while, I'm inclined to believe this is the case.

 

[thisisit]

Then collect it and show it please. I stand by my words because it was something I have tested. If you properly dry the blade face after gluing or sealing, no water seeps into the blade. Any chances in moisture content are through the end grain. Water seeps into handles because there is a much more prolonged exposure, and stills it doesn't penetrate that much. If you cut a old and used handle in half, the wood inside will still be nice and fresh.

totally up for it if you are willing to pay for experimental costs if results support my claims.

Properly Kiln dried wood is already dimensionally stable and a much faster process, so no, I don't see any advantage in this.

water/uv cycling(whenever you pass by a lumber yard, look out for stacks of wood that are soaking wet) is used as a standalone or as a precursor to kiln drying in dimensionally stable wood production. so i would say most if not all of wood used in tt blade production has gone trough this process.

 

[thisisit]

I'm not sure if your dehydration experiment actually proves the point that the blade has soaked in moisture from long term use. In this example, it could just be the moisture from current ambient humidity that's being removed by the dehydrator. That would just support @hipnotic claim that the wood constantly intakes and expels moisture to reach a balance with current conditions.

Given how fast my washed chopsticks dry out after being fully soaked in water for a while, I'm inclined to believe this is the case.

you ofc would control for those variables.

 

[K.K]

what about sealing the handles? i have really sweaty hands and already tried everything like this climber powder or deodorant for hands but it will never be enough for a 3 hour session and when i had a hot time and practiced 5 times a week my bat started to smell a bit because it didn’t had the time to dry from session to session. i solved it with having several of the same blade, but i always asked myself if it will be bad for the blade to sweat so much and if there is any trick to solve this problem, because it is hard to find 3x times the same blade with same weight AND same playing properties.

 

[hipnotic]

totally up for it if you are willing to pay for experimental costs if results support my claims.

I'm sharing my knowledge as blade builder, I don't know your background or credentials. You don't have to agree with what I say, totally up to you, but if you discredit my work it would be nice to present something other than claims, which I already refuted. I'm not gonna pay for claims that you are making, and you are the one that said it was easy. I guess it's not that easy.

water/uv cycling(whenever you pass by a lumber yard, look out for stacks of wood that are soaking wet) is used as a standalone or as a precursor to kiln drying in dimensionally stable wood production. so i would say most if not all of wood used in tt blade production has gone trough this process.

So what are you saying? Because you already contradicted yourself multiple times. It's not some specialized process after all, it's just Kiln dried wood that everyone is using. It's not a UV/moisture cycle either, they wet the wood because when it's left out in the sun, it may contract too much and start moving/breaking. They need to keep it at a high moisture content. And after they Kiln dry the wood and bring it to the desirable moisture content, they will only seal the ends of the logs. You know why? Because wood mostly has moisture exchanges with the environment through the end grain.

 

[hipnotic]

what about sealing the handles? i have really sweaty hands and already tried everything like this climber powder or deodorant for hands but it will never be enough for a 3 hour session and when i had a hot time and practiced 5 times a week my bat started to smell a bit because it didn’t had the time to dry from session to session. i solved it with having several of the same blade, but i always asked myself if it will be bad for the blade to sweat so much and if there is any trick to solve this problem, because it is hard to find 3x times the same blade with same weight AND same playing properties.

If you do sweat that much, any kind of sealing will be detrimental in my opinion. To some degree, you will limit the amount of sweat that goes into the handles, and if it has nowhere to go, the handle will become slippery. What you can try is to dry the blade between training sessions and that will avoid the bad smell. The best way to do it, is to leave it overnight in a small room with a dehumidifier turned on. The next morning the handle will be completely dry.

 

[Conehead]

what about sealing the handles?

I do this. I am a heavy hand sweater as well and sealing the handle helps my playing.

 

[thisisit]

I'm sharing my knowledge as blade builder, I don't know your background or credentials. You don't have to agree with what I say, totally up to you, but if you discredit my work it would be nice to present something other than claims, which I already refuted. I'm not gonna pay for claims that you are making, and you are the one that said it was easy. I guess it's not that easy.


So what are you saying? Because you already contradicted yourself multiple times. It's not some specialized process after all, it's just Kiln dried wood that everyone is using. It's not a UV/moisture cycle either, they wet the wood because when it's left out in the sun, it may contract too much and start moving/breaking. They need to keep it at a high moisture content. And after they Kiln dry the wood and bring it to the desirable moisture content, they will only seal the ends of the logs. You know why? Because wood mostly has moisture exchanges with the environment through the end grain.

did someone ask you to pay for claims i made? i sure didn't. i did propose a wagerlike agreement though:

totally up for it if you are willing to pay for experimental costs if results support my claims.

also, i guess you use a different definition of contradiction. my working definition is:
a proposition, statement, or phrase that asserts or implies both the truth and falsity of something

don't recognize any instance of it in any of my posts.

 

[Conehead]

To some degree, you will limit the amount of sweat that goes into the handles, and if it has nowhere to go, the handle will become slippery.

Yes, that is a side aspect. I mitigate this by wiping my hand on my clothes between the rallies. At least my handle stays sort of clean and doesn't provide a bad smell.

Overall it is kind of a trade-off but for me personally it works.

 

[hipnotic]

did someone ask you to pay for claims i made? i sure didn't. i did propose a wagerlike agreement though:

You said it was easy, if it involves costs then it's not easy. I already presented a few tests that you can make that don't involve costs. I've made logical arguments, at this point you already taken a defensive stance because I refuted everything you said.

If you want to sound like a big boy, at least bring something to the table other than "claims", I have no problem with being proven wrong.

 

[thisisit]

You said it was easy, if it involves costs then it's not easy. I already presented a few tests that you can make that don't involve costs. I've made logical arguments, at this point you already taken a defensive stance because I refuted everything you said.

If you want to sound like a big boy, at least bring something to the table other than "claims", I have no problem with being proven wrong.

ok so in your view, buying bar of chocolate is not easy because it involves costs. at the same time time, you say you've made logical arguments.

don't see any point engaging any further. you are correct in anything you said and will say.

 

[hipnotic]

ok so in your view, buying bar of chocolate is not easy because it involves costs. at the same time time, you say you've made logical arguments.

don't see any point engaging any further. you are correct in anything you said and will say.

See? Defensive again.

I supported my own claims either with logical, proven and widely available knowledge (just a little google search away), or my own experience as a blade builder. Until you prove what your saying, as arrogant as it may sound, my claims have more validity than your's.

I don't care about being wrong or right, I care about sharing correct knowledge with the community. I do this on a daily basis, I use water in the build process all the time, check the weight before and after, I also use a moisture meter sometimes! Made plenty of tests on this subject. You were the one who said I was wrong. I have no problem with being wrong, but don't just say it, prove it.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

I don't use sealers from TT brands, but sure, they will work. For the amount you are applying they will all be lightweight, were are talking less than 1g added. I was using Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer, it's used for guitar finishing, but now I'm using another product.

@hipnotic
How would you remove sealer from the top ply that hasn't penetrated into the wood?
I used sealer on a rather expensive blade. But the top ply is still somewhat sticky and "ugly" after a few weeks as it hasn't penetrated into the top ply. I hesitate to use abrasive paper (even very fine grit) as I fear it would damage the blade even more.

 

[hipnotic]

@hipnotic
How would you remove sealer from the top ply that hasn't penetrated into the wood?
I used sealer on a rather expensive blade. But the top ply is still somewhat sticky and "ugly" after a few weeks as it hasn't penetrated into the top ply. I hesitate to use abrasive paper (even very fine grit) as I fear it would damage the blade even more.

I'm not sure what the situation is, so I cannot give any advice without seeing it. "Sticky" sounds to me it was oil based sealer and it didn't dry properly.

 

[Tyce]

My instinctive reaction would be to try alcohol wipes first. If it's oily you can probably dissolve it that way and the alcohol evaporates really quick which *sounds* like minimal chances of damage.

 

[God-scrubplayer]

I do this. I am a heavy hand sweater as well and sealing the handle helps my playing.

Don't do this. Tried it and cause excessive sweating during match. Before sealing the handle absorb the sweat so my hand is dry. After sealing I almost slip and threw my paddle across. It's unplayable. Also don't seal. Only plebs seal

 

[Conehead]

Don't do this. Tried it and cause excessive sweating during match. Before sealing the handle absorb the sweat so my hand is dry. After sealing I almost slip and threw my paddle across. It's unplayable. Also don't seal. Only plebs seal

Well, I did already ... What can I say, it kind of still works for me. As I said it is a trade-off between taking care of the handle and the risk of slippery.
My workaround is to dry my hand on my clothes between rallies. That lasts ca. 1 second and is manageable.

Nevertheless, I absolutely hear your point and I understand the way how I deal with that does not fit for everybody.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

I'm not sure what the situation is, so I cannot give any advice without seeing it. "Sticky" sounds to me it was oil based sealer and it didn't dry properly.

Thanks a lot for replying, @hipnotic. I just inspected the blade. The sealer on the wood is hardly "sticky" anymore, but it was semi-"sticky" for a few weeks after sealing it...
It is not an oil based sealer, it is a water based sealer by GEWO (see picture). However it is rather old as I had it in my drawer for a few years before using it. I did use it as supposed to (more or less . Back side of the bottle says to let it dry for at least 4 hours; not quite sure if I made it to the 4 hour mark before applying the next layer...could have been 3 hours).
While it is hardly "sticky" anymore, you can clearly see and feel the smears where I used the sponge to brush around and apply the sealer. The wood now feels (and looks) raw instead of smooth as it was once before.
Not sure if one can see the smears in the picture, but here are some anyway. Any suggestions?

Album — Postimages

postimg.cc

 

[Lazer]

@hipnotic
How would you remove sealer from the top ply that hasn't penetrated into the wood?
I used sealer on a rather expensive blade. But the top ply is still somewhat sticky and "ugly" after a few weeks as it hasn't penetrated into the top ply. I hesitate to use abrasive paper (even very fine grit) as I fear it would damage the blade even more.

It is not about penetration. I suspect you glued before the sealer has cured … Either this or you have used something very old.

Cheers
L-zt