Bounce with the Ball / Split-Step

[turbozed]

Here is another great video about the recovery step from a Chinese coach

Some really good nuggets of information in this one:

1. Students are taught at first to recover to neutral position for every stroke. This seems fundamental for all coaching styles, but this coach believes it must be a conscious focus until it becomes ingrained in muscle memory.
2. Recovery can just be a transfer of weight back to neutral and not the full step once the trainee advances
3. Keep moving your feet as if doing a drill, even when the pace is broken. The recovery step helps keep the rhythm
4. People play better during drills but will stop moving/recovering during actual play because they are too focused on seeing if their previous shot went back over the net. Completely ignore whether your shot landed and focus first on recovery.

Takeaways for me for each point above:

1. I was taught to recover to neutral on my very first day of coaching but I think it's something I needed to have been reminded for weeks if not months in order for it to become ingrained.
2. I was having trouble implementing the recovery step while doing footwork drills because I was exaggerating the recovery step with an actual hop. There may be no time in a fast rally to actually hop step and bounce and maybe a slight weight shift and bending of the knees is more practical.
3. However during random hitting where the pace is lower, consciously recovering and bouncing has been possible and has allowed me to hit more balanced and higher quality shots. It's almost like a metronome which brings the pace consistency of the drills into inconsistent situations.
4. When you watch pros, they are still in motion even after winning their points. Unless it's a situation when they've fully committed to a finishing shot, you will see them bounce and recover because they're not waiting to see where their ball landed. This should be pretty obvious but helps emphasize how the recovery step is automatic for them.

 

[blahness]

Here is another great video about the recovery step from a Chinese coach

Some really good nuggets of information in this one:

1. Students are taught at first to recover to neutral position for every stroke. This seems fundamental for all coaching styles, but this coach believes it must be a conscious focus until it becomes ingrained in muscle memory.
2. Recovery can just be a transfer of weight back to neutral and not the full step once the trainee advances
3. Keep moving your feet as if doing a drill, even when the pace is broken. The recovery step helps keep the rhythm
4. People play better during drills but will stop moving/recovering during actual play because they are too focused on seeing if their previous shot went back over the net. Completely ignore whether your shot landed and focus first on recovery.

Takeaways for me for each point above:

1. I was taught to recover to neutral on my very first day of coaching but I think it's something I needed to have been reminded for weeks if not months in order for it to become ingrained.
2. I was having trouble implementing the recovery step while doing footwork drills because I was exaggerating the recovery step with an actual hop. There may be no time in a fast rally to actually hop step and bounce and maybe a slight weight shift and bending of the knees is more practical.
3. However during random hitting where the pace is lower, consciously recovering and bouncing has been possible and has allowed me to hit more balanced and higher quality shots. It's almost like a metronome which brings the pace consistency of the drills into inconsistent situations.
4. When you watch pros, they are still in motion even after winning their points. Unless it's a situation when they've fully committed to a finishing shot, you will see them bounce and recover because they're not waiting to see where their ball landed. This should be pretty obvious but helps emphasize how the recovery step is automatic for them.

Like you I also think a hop/bounce is sometimes a bit too much. Distilled to its essentials, the most important part is to make sure the elbow is in the neutral position (regardless of the previous stroke), and the weight goes back to the middle - a reset after a weight transfer. One key tip I learnt was to always do shadow training with recovery built in for all strokes be it serves, pushes, loops - the recovery is an important part of a complete stroke.

This is really an underrated thread imo and excellent analysis so far!

 

[Wrighty67]

Like you I also think a hop/bounce is sometimes a bit too much. Distilled to its essentials, the most important part is to make sure the elbow is in the neutral position (regardless of the previous stroke), and the weight goes back to the middle - a reset after a weight transfer. One key tip I learnt was to always do shadow training with recovery built in for all strokes be it serves, pushes, loops - the recovery is an important part of a complete stroke.

This is really an underrated thread imo and excellent analysis so far!

Here here - very interesting thread!

 

[turbozed]

I've had two training sessions where I've focused on the recovery step/bounce and I've found it really helps with my FH/BH transitions. Here are some clips where I've made a quality shot after a switch. Prior to this, I've not been able to make these sorts of shots.

https://imgur.com/AZoSx0D

https://imgur.com/K2hPzza

And here's one where a bounce step helped me get to a wide BH after some prior bad footwork. Usually I reach weakly for these types of balls.

https://imgur.com/BOc9lkI

BTW, the training hall is around 35 C and 70% humidity so that's why I'm always a mess in these clips. Apologies

 

[blahness]

I've had two training sessions where I've focused on the recovery step/bounce and I've found it really helps with my FH/BH transitions. Here are some clips where I've made a quality shot after a switch. Prior to this, I've not been able to make these sorts of shots.

https://imgur.com/AZoSx0D

https://imgur.com/K2hPzza

And here's one where a bounce step helped me get to a wide BH after some prior bad footwork. Usually I reach weakly for these types of balls.

https://imgur.com/BOc9lkI

BTW, the training hall is around 35 C and 70% humidity so that's why I'm always a mess in these clips. Apologies

For the 2nd clip, you could also try out the intermediate step back after the push. I've been incorporating it in my practice and games (I'm getting there), and it really works wonders. I found that I'm in much better positions to attack or defend after the short ball receive after I started doing that.

 

[turbozed]

For the 2nd clip, you could also try out the intermediate step back after the push. I've been incorporating it in my practice and games (I'm getting there), and it really works wonders. I found that I'm in much better positions to attack or defend after the short ball receive after I started doing that.

Yeah I've been doing this in my push training to form the habit after discussing it with you. This was at the end of my training session and I was being a bit lazy. The half step helps a lot in setting up positioning for the FH loop against backspin.

 

[turbozed]

Here's two sequences in a row in drills where the recovery bounce/step clearly made a big difference.

In the first sequence I remembered to do the recovery step after the FH and was ready to hit the BH winner to the corner. In the second sequence, I didn't do the recovery step and the BH after it was poor quality. A small recovery step later helped me get prepared to lunge and hit a big FH.


View attachment vv0EEie.mp4

Curious to see how you guys are faring incorporating this into training. So far, it's made a big difference in training but hasn't made its way to actual match play as I spend way too much time gawking at the ball. My footwork and recovery is just plain awful compared to training and it's extremely obvious. I need to really force myself to keep my feet moving like during drills.

 

[Wrighty67]

Here's two sequences in a row in drills where the recovery bounce/step clearly made a big difference.

In the first sequence I remembered to do the recovery step after the FH and was ready to hit the BH winner to the corner. In the second sequence, I didn't do the recovery step and the BH after it was poor quality. A small recovery step later helped me get prepared to lunge and hit a big FH.


View attachment 25269

Curious to see how you guys are faring incorporating this into training. So far, it's made a big difference in training but hasn't made its way to actual match play as I spend way too much time gawking at the ball. My footwork and recovery is just plain awful compared to training and it's extremely obvious. I need to really force myself to keep my feet moving like during drills.

Great vid - it really shows the difference that a subtle movement made in the BH result and quality.

I have continued to struggle with remembering to practice this consistently - I remember and try and then I forget..

I need to be more mindful and build a habit of this bounce step.

 

[blahness]

Here's two sequences in a row in drills where the recovery bounce/step clearly made a big difference.

In the first sequence I remembered to do the recovery step after the FH and was ready to hit the BH winner to the corner. In the second sequence, I didn't do the recovery step and the BH after it was poor quality. A small recovery step later helped me get prepared to lunge and hit a big FH.


View attachment 25269

Curious to see how you guys are faring incorporating this into training. So far, it's made a big difference in training but hasn't made its way to actual match play as I spend way too much time gawking at the ball. My footwork and recovery is just plain awful compared to training and it's extremely obvious. I need to really force myself to keep my feet moving like during drills.

I played on a slippery floor yesterday which really sucked, it didn't really matter whether I did the recovery step because I didn't even do much weight shifting due to the fear of slipping.

But definitely I can see that I'm much better at looping after a serve receive (4th ball attack) after incorporating the intermediate recovery step.

I recommend lots and lots of shadow training before you even hit the table - it's how I quickly reprogram my mind. For me it works the fastest.

 

[turbozed]

I played on a slippery floor yesterday which really sucked, it didn't really matter whether I did the recovery step because I didn't even do much weight shifting due to the fear of slipping.

But definitely I can see that I'm much better at looping after a serve receive (4th ball attack) after incorporating the intermediate recovery step.

I recommend lots and lots of shadow training before you even hit the table - it's how I quickly reprogram my mind. For me it works the fastest.

Good call on the shadow training. The recovery step is just the centering of balance to neutral and getting your hand in position. It's a 'skill' that anyone can perform instantly and can be performed anywhere (when you're bored or waiting around). It's also almost entirely non-fatiguing as well.

So you can basically skip the unconscious incompetence and conscious incompetence stages of skill acquisition and go straight from conscious competence to unconscious competence (making it second nature).

As an experiment, I'll try the shadow training as an everyday thing and see how much it speeds up my results with on-the-table training. To make things more fun, I'm putting on some pro TT matches and reacting to the ball along with the action. I watch it anyway and this makes it more fun.

Edit: I take it back about this not being non-fatiguing. This is actually substantially fatiguing.

 

[Wrighty67]

Good call on the shadow training. The recovery step is just the centering of balance to neutral and getting your hand in position. It's a 'skill' that anyone can perform instantly and can be performed anywhere (when you're bored or waiting around). It's also almost entirely non-fatiguing as well.

So you can basically skip the unconscious incompetence and conscious incompetence stages of skill acquisition and go straight from conscious competence to unconscious competence (making it second nature).

As an experiment, I'll try the shadow training as an everyday thing and see how much it speeds up my results with on-the-table training. To make things more fun, I'm putting on some pro TT matches and reacting to the ball along with the action. I watch it anyway and this makes it more fun.

Edit: I take it back about this not being non-fatiguing. This is actually substantially fatiguing.

I did some shadow work a few mornings back - it certainly fatigued me!

So, would you suggest shadow of say a FH loop followed by a bounce back to recovery at point of estimated ball contact with the other side of the table (then repeat)?

 

[turbozed]

I did some shadow work a few mornings back - it certainly fatigued me!

So, would you suggest shadow of say a FH loop followed by a bounce back to recovery at point of estimated ball contact with the other side of the table (then repeat)?

TBH, I haven't done much shadow training despite hearing many different coaches all saying how effective it is. I've always just used a ball spinner and VR for at-home training. I don't recommend VR now since I think it'll just mess with your strokes. Kind of dumb of me because I always did shadow boxing/kickboxing when I used to train martial arts.

I'll do some research on drills now, but I'm guessing people will recommend doing the shadow version of popular drills you would do with a ball (FH/BH switch, 2 points, game simulation, etc.)

 

[blahness]

I did some shadow work a few mornings back - it certainly fatigued me!

So, would you suggest shadow of say a FH loop followed by a bounce back to recovery at point of estimated ball contact with the other side of the table (then repeat)?

Yes - that's what I always do. Same with BH loop/counter shadow followed by recovery step, serve shadow followed by recovery and short push/flick/chiquita followed by recovery (intermediate step that I was talking about). Each of these recovery steps feel very different but the concept is similar.

If you shadow just the stroke without the recovery - you'll find yourself not recovering automatically be it in practice or in matches. I need to follow my own advice on this too 😞 I have been caught not recovering way, way too many times because of this.

It needs to be second nature, something that you do automatically after doing any stroke

 

[Brs]

Amazing thread. NL knows this is one of my favorite topics. To me it is obvious that we all play better if we keep our feet moving all the way through every point. It's just very tiring, and easy to slip into lazy play.

The Veach article was excellent. I tried shadow training, robot training, private coach 3x/week for one year, all working on what I was calling the reset hop. The coaching worked pretty well, while I was doing it. It will be cool to see how far you guys get with this. Imo it can make a big difference in your level.

Here is my all-time favorite player showing how split step is done.

 

[turbozed]

Amazing thread. NL knows this is one of my favorite topics. To me it is obvious that we all play better if we keep our feet moving all the way through every point. It's just very tiring, and easy to slip into lazy play.

The Veach article was excellent. I tried shadow training, robot training, private coach 3x/week for one year, all working on what I was calling the reset hop. The coaching worked pretty well, while I was doing it. It will be cool to see how far you guys get with this. Imo it can make a big difference in your level.

Here is my all-time favorite player showing how split step is done.

Wow this is an incredible example of textbook recovery after each shot. It's apparent that Liu has ingrained the mindset that every shot she hits will be returned and the recovery is built into every stroke. This is especially apparent around 0:39 when she hits what most people would think would be big FH winner to the corner. Most people would overswing to try to force some extra speed on the ball. But Liu's hand goes perfectly back to neutral position to hit another great shot to the opposite corner. Stuff like this is beautiful to watch when you know what to look for.

I've played a few matches against friends recently and noticed that on video replay, I'm overswinging and trying to kill every smashable ball. This might work well against lower level players, but being off balanced with your arm across your body is going to be a bad position to be in against anyone that is half decent at blocking. Planning for a recovery step before you make the big shot means you shorten the stroke and become more efficient.

I can also see why many advanced beginners or intermediates 'upgrade' to faster setups too early. If you are used to throwing yourself out of balance/position to kill a ball and win a point, this will become a bad habit. When you meet better players that can block and send back your big shots, it's easier to just think that extra speed will solve your problem. So you upgrade to carbon or faster rubber,when the better approach would be to actually fix your recovery and just be ready to make one more good shot.

 

[Jslick89]

Funny that this thread just popped up. Recently I had to get a new coach due to mine moving 2 hours away. My new coach has been a huge stickler about FOOTWORK. He has been helping me incorporate this hop step/split step.

He gave me actually a little side stepping drill to practice too. I'll have to post a video of it....i've been doing it shadow drill every day trying to get the mechanics down. He promises that this is going to help take me to the next level. I believe him...especially after seeing this thread.

 

[Choosikick]

Funny that this thread just popped up. Recently I had to get a new coach due to mine moving 2 hours away. My new coach has been a huge stickler about FOOTWORK. He has been helping me incorporate this hop step/split step.

He gave me actually a little side stepping drill to practice too. I'll have to post a video of it....i've been doing it shadow drill every day trying to get the mechanics down. He promises that this is going to help take me to the next level. I believe him...especially after seeing this thread.

A small jump or step before receiving the opponent's serve added 100,500 percent of my mobility. It really works great! This is one of the best tips on this forum, for which many thanks to the topic starter!

 

[Brs]

Miwa hop bh

in side-view slo-mo clearly two hops for two bounces. she skips the bounce on her side, maybe bc this is an exercise

the timing is before the bounce but in full speed looks about simultaneous

 

[turbozed]

One month update:

It's been a little over a month since I've started focusing on improving the recovery/bounce step and I'm very happy with the results so far.

Here is a video of me doing a random FH/BH drill on April 10. A few things to note:
1. My feet are mostly very planted and stationary
2. The hand switch from BH to FH is very slow and results in a poor quality shot
3. Balls to the wide BH I end up reaching across my body for
4. Despite the fact that I hadn't learned about the bounce/recovery step yet, I seem to be doing it at times (I either picked this up naturally or am trying to emulate pro players).

Now here's a video of me doing the same drill today, May 22. I've looked through my training journal and this is the first time I've done this drill since the video above (April 10). I'm being a bit lazy not getting low and forward enough in my stance (tired from doing Falkenberg right before). But many issues from the first video look vastly improved.

 

[Wrighty67]

One month update:

It's been a little over a month since I've started focusing on improving the recovery/bounce step and I'm very happy with the results so far.

Here is a video of me doing a random FH/BH drill on April 10. A few things to note:
1. My feet are mostly very planted and stationary
2. The hand switch from BH to FH is very slow and results in a poor quality shot
3. Balls to the wide BH I end up reaching across my body for
4. Despite the fact that I hadn't learned about the bounce/recovery step yet, I seem to be doing it at times (I either picked this up naturally or am trying to emulate pro players).

Now here's a video of me doing the same drill today, May 22. I've looked through my training journal and this is the first time I've done this drill since the video above (April 10). I'm being a bit lazy not getting low and forward enough in my stance (tired from doing Falkenberg right before). But many issues from the first video look vastly improved.

Nice work, that's a big difference in terms of movement and readiness!