Bty Petr Korbel (Hungary) vs Tibhar Stratus Power Wood

[UpSideDownCarl]

Modern rubbers are much heavier though. Just saying.

True.. and TUNED, much more so...

I thought about this for a minute or two and something came to my mind. Back in NYTTF a lot of the non asian players would say things like, "Hurricane 3, watch out, it is really heavy." And then there was this contingent of asian players who were using these DHS rackets with H3 on both sides and when you picked it up, it had to weight 250+ grams, where the blade was a totally solid tank and the rubbers were definitely as heavy as anything out today. But these guys never seemed to notice the weight of their rackets.

I personally might find them a little heavier than I would want. But these guys were used to them and played pretty well with what they were using.

 

[dominus7]

Just adding my 2 cents to what probably has already been stressed enough by the prominent faces of this forum, meaning far better players than me with far more experience: It baffles me what I read on some pages, for example that "these are quite heavy rubbers so you might want to get a lighter blade to not strain your wrist that much." Imo that has it absolutely backwards; especially in that case you shouldn't get a lighter blade because it will make it head heavy which puts far more strain on your wrist lol. The balance of the blade and your individual preference for that is so much more important than the total weight of the blade. Of course I too look for a blade that is as light as possible, because my wrist isn't very strong and I can swing noticeably faster with my over-a-decade-old, far lighter blades. But the first and foremost priority is the balance of the blade.

The Korbel is balanced? I read is head heavy though I can mistake

 

[dominus7]

Just adding my 2 cents to what probably has already been stressed enough by the prominent faces of this forum, meaning far better players than me with far more experience: It baffles me what I read on some pages, for example that "these are quite heavy rubbers so you might want to get a lighter blade to not strain your wrist that much." Imo that has it absolutely backwards; especially in that case you shouldn't get a lighter blade because it will make it head heavy which puts far more strain on your wrist lol. The balance of the blade and your individual preference for that is so much more important than the total weight of the blade. Of course I too look for a blade that is as light as possible, because my wrist isn't very strong and I can swing noticeably faster with my over-a-decade-old, far lighter blades. But the first and foremost priority is the balance of the blade.

I'm seeking a blade with balance, almost time I use the wrist for service, so my wrist is fine, I narrowed between Korbel and TSPW because they're best ranked, though stiga is close, too many complain is too stiff, I've tried the Tibhar Stratus Samsonov CB which is the faster than TSPW, the first black color and TSPW blue color, I felt samsonov lighter than my donic, I know donic is not balanced because the senso made two holes in the handle, and paired with a rakza and a mx-p, those are heavier than my step back setup, lkt pro xp, which is less than the half weight of the lightest mx-p.
About the Primorac I heard about it's slow with the poly ball, and that's why I passed from this blade to the Korbel.
Then if the Primorac is slow like the Joola then is not good idea buy it, I've tried a Primorac but xxs and paired with 2 Joola xplode, btw are too springy and harder than Yasaka Rakza, then I have my doubts about the speed (I didn't tried with a poly ball, but I'll try it next time).

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'm seeking a blade with balance, almost time I use the wrist for service, so my wrist is fine, I narrowed between Korbel and TSPW because they're best ranked, though stiga is close, too many complain is too stiff, I've tried the Tibhar Stratus Samsonov CB which is the faster than TSPW, the first black color and TSPW blue color, I felt samsonov lighter than my donic, I know donic is not balanced because the senso made two holes in the handle, and paired with a rakza and a mx-p, those are heavier than my step back setup, lkt pro xp, which is less than the half weight of the lightest mx-p.
About the Primorac I heard about it's slow with the poly ball, and that's why I passed from this blade to the Korbel.
Then if the Primorac is slow like the Joola then is not good idea buy it, I've tried a Primorac but xxs and paired with 2 Joola xplode, btw are too springy and harder than Yasaka Rakza, then I have my doubts about the speed (I didn't tried with a poly ball, but I'll try it next time).

There is this gerbil, and it is running on one of those wheels, and I am thinking, maybe that is the engine that is making your mind work this way.

*** "I narrowed between Korbel and TSPW because they're best ranked, though stiga is close, too many complain is too stiff,"

If you are basing your research on product reviews from some place like tabletennisDB than I am not sure there is much hope for your thought process. Those kinds of product reviews are flawed for so many reasons.

1) many of the people who write them are writing a review of the only blade they have tried.
2) they are written by anonymous users with no indication of the level of experience or ability to judge good from bad in a product.
3) even if a review is written by a competent reviewer who has tried many many blades, if his level is not similar to your level the information he presents could be good while still being BAD for YOU.

*** "Then if the Primorac is slow like the Joola then is not good idea buy it,"

I think what you are missing here by having that gerbil bring you back to this conclusion is that based on the video footage, you clearly are a BEGINNER and should use a blade good FOR YOUR LEVEL. For you, SLOWER than what you are looking at is what will actually help you improve faster.

But, I want you to go watch the footage of NextLevel playing with the Primorac. Tell me if that is too slow. Beginner's tend to think they need fast blades because their technique is bad and that ends up preventing them from learning good technique.

If you are drawn to the Korbel, you should get the Primorac and use that and only that for a few years. I saw the footage of how you play. You are a beginner and you need a beginner setup. One of the major flaws with how beginners choose their equipment is that they choose based on crazy things like product reviews from random people where they don't know the level of the person or how the information could possibly pertain to the beginner in question's actual needs from a setup.

At the level you play at you should be using something very simple. And I am telling you that the Primorac would be better for your development than the Rossi blade you have because it will be 5 plies and it won't have the paper ply. That is what you have right, the Joola Rossi Allround 7 with the hollow ping?

Get the Primorac. Play with it and only it for the next few years. They will still make Korbels in 2 years. In two years you can get a Korbel. But for now you need something more like a Primorac. Or maybe you should get a Stiga Allround Classic. (Someone will hopefully get the joke here even though the Stiga Allround Classic would really be a great blade for you).

 

[NextLevel]

I'm seeking a blade with balance, almost time I use the wrist for service, so my wrist is fine, I narrowed between Korbel and TSPW because they're best ranked, though stiga is close, too many complain is too stiff, I've tried the Tibhar Stratus Samsonov CB which is the faster than TSPW, the first black color and TSPW blue color, I felt samsonov lighter than my donic, I know donic is not balanced because the senso made two holes in the handle, and paired with a rakza and a mx-p, those are heavier than my step back setup, lkt pro xp, which is less than the half weight of the lightest mx-p.
About the Primorac I heard about it's slow with the poly ball, and that's why I passed from this blade to the Korbel.
Then if the Primorac is slow like the Joola then is not good idea buy it, I've tried a Primorac but xxs and paired with 2 Joola xplode, btw are too springy and harder than Yasaka Rakza, then I have my doubts about the speed (I didn't tried with a poly ball, but I'll try it next time).

Having looked at the video you posted, good luck with this. You really do not understand that a lot of people posting tjese things about blades being too slow for the plastic ball don't know what they are talking about and the better ones are speaking from an advanced perspective. I posted videl of myself using a Primorac to play at a level far beyond yours at the moment. So tell me again why it is too slow for the plastic ball?

 

[dominus7]

There is this gerbil, and it is running on one of those wheels, and I am thinking, maybe that is the engine that is making your mind work this way.

*** "I narrowed between Korbel and TSPW because they're best ranked, though stiga is close, too many complain is too stiff,"

If you are basing your research on product reviews from some place like tabletennisDB than I am not sure there is much hope for your thought process. Those kinds of product reviews are flawed for so many reasons.

1) many of the people who write them are writing a review of the only blade they have tried.
2) they are written by anonymous users with no indication of the level of experience or ability to judge good from bad in a product.
3) even if a review is written by a competent reviewer who has tried many many blades, if his level is not similar to your level the information he presents could be good while still being BAD for YOU.

*** "Then if the Primorac is slow like the Joola then is not good idea buy it,"

I think what you are missing here by going back to this ridiculous subject that you clearly don't understand is that, YOU ARE REALLY a BEGINNER and should use a blade good FOR YOUR LEVEL. For you SLOWER than what you are looking at is what you ACTUALLY NEED.

But, I want you to go watch the footage of NextLevel playing with the Primorac. Tell me if that is too slow. Beginner's tend to think they need fast blades because their technique is bad and that ends up preventing them from learning good technique.

If you are drawn to the Korbel, you should get the Primorac and use that and only that for a few years. I saw the footage of how you play. You are a beginner and you need a beginner setup. One of the major flaws with how beginners choose their equipment is that they choose based on crazy things like product reviews from random people where they don't know the level of the person or how the information could possibly pertain to the beginner in question's actual needs from a setup.

At the level you play at you should be using something very simple. And I am telling you that the Primorac would be better for your development than the Rossi blade you have because it will be 5 plies and it won't have the paper ply. That is what you have right, the Joola Rossi Allround 7 with the hollow ping?

Get the Primorac. Play with it and only it for the next two years. They will still make Korbels in 2 years. In two years you can get a Korbel. But for now you need something more like a Primorac. Or maybe I should tell you to get a Stiga Allround Classic.

[emoji1] [emoji1] you're right, I'm agree about that, I mean tabletennisdb, but I said about stiga not for that website, just for a couple partners, I didn't have the pleasure to try a stiga evolution, I know that I need control and not speed, I don't want a hurricane long V, or a timo boll spirit or a viscaria.
I'm agree about I'm a beginner, I know it, about the footage, was taken last year or at the beginning of this, I grew up. My services are better, like timing and of course I'm not a ma long after a couple months, and i know I need at least 1-2 years just to perfect every stroke, and play with footwork, stance and correct hitting, and I really appreciate your advice. I will buy better a Primorac.
Now the question is, which rubbers will last long and will be better for development?

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

 

[dominus7]

Having looked at the video you posted, good luck with this. You really do not understand that a lot of people posting tjese things about blades being too slow for the plastic ball don't know what they are talking about and the better ones are speaking from an advanced perspective. I posted videl of myself using a Primorac to play at a level far beyond yours at the moment. So tell me again why it is too slow for the plastic ball?

Can you send the link again please? Can't find the video. I know what you mean. Thanks for your advice.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

 

[dominus7]

I used it *after* I switched to Karis rubbers. Got my best win ever with it and was my spinniest combo of rubber and blade.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kkYEwe0xjxE

Switched only because I wanted a composite as Karis has a lot of control and I wanted something even faster.

This is the video right? Which one are you? Sorry for ask.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

So, now I am going to do my best to explain this thing about why a slower blade that is all wood and 5 plies and has some reasonable flex and good dwell time and good feeling is good for a player who is trying to develop better technique and improve their skills. But please note, in spite of this being true, these blades that I am talking about are blades that a high level player could still use and they are blades that some pros actually do use. And, again, look at how fast NextLevel gets the ball moving with a Primorac and look at how much spin he gets with that blade.

So, the first premise that this information is based on is the understanding that higher level play in table tennis actually revolves around two things:

1) the technique that allows you to generate more spin, MUCH more SPiN.
2) the ability to adjust to larger amounts of incoming spin which is really very related to the ability to generate more spin.

Part of why the ability to generate more spin is related to the ability handle larger amounts of incoming spin is that, part of how you handle incoming spin is by generating spin of your own. But it is also partly because, when you can generate the spin it helps you be able to see the spin that is coming at you better and adjust to it more readily.

The technique that allows you to generate spin is based on learning how to hold the ball on the rubber for longer while you contact the ball at a highly tangential angle so that you brush past the ball. A blade that is a little slower that allows you to hold the ball on the blade face for longer helps you learn how to spin the ball better. Then your technique improves faster.

Beginners tend to like faster blades because it feels like the blade does more of the work and makes your shots faster immediately. But the problem with that is that, without very good technique, those blades encourage you to hit flatter and they propel the ball out with much less dwell time. So a beginner, with one of those faster blades is encouraged to hit flatter and not use as much spin on attacks. And that will slow down your development. A high level player with one of those faster blades won't fall into that trap and he will spin the ball and use the blade's capacities much better. But for a beginner level player, those blades encourage you to do exactly what will keep you at a lower level for longer.

Whereas a slower 5 ply all wood blade like the Primorac will actually encourage you to learn to spin better. And if you are using one of those 5 ply blades to really spin the ball, because of how much more you are using the sponge and topsheet of the rubber when you spin, those "slower" blades are not really that much slower. Again, look at NextLevel's shots with the Primorac.

The other thing the slower blade does is it forces you to learn how to use your body better which improves your stroke mechanics and it also forces your stroke mechanics to improve, because without decent stroke mechanics, with an Off- setup, your shots won't go that fast. But with good mechanics they will go pretty darn fast. So this really helps encourage your stroke mechanics to improve without you even realizing it is happening.

Whereas those faster blades allow you to continue to use poor stroke mechanics and you don't even realize your stroke mechanics are not so good because the blade does so much of the work for you.

Now in that footage of you "Practice of a Beginner", you and your partner both are doing some spinning of the ball. But as soon as you want to make a stronger offensive shot you both go right to flat hitting. That is exactly why you want a blade like the Primorac and not a faster blade. Because in those instances where you take flatter shots, which is almost every offensive shot I saw in the parts of the video I watched, the instinct is not what you want and you want to learn to spin the ball in those circumstances and use the power of your spin to control the point.

The faster blades will encourage you to keep making the mistakes you are making whereas, a blade like the Primorac, the Stiga Allround Evolution or the Yasaka Sweden Extra will ultimately encourage you to spin the hell out of the ball.

Hopefully that will make sense.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is the video right? Which one are you? Sorry for ask.

He is the one who wins. Both players are excellent. Look to see if the ball is going too slowly or without enough spin from either of them.

 

[dominus7]

So, now I am going to do my best to explain this thing about why a slower blade that is all wood and 5 plies and has some reasonable flex and good dwell time and good feeling is good for a player who is trying to develop better technique and improve their skills. But please note, in spite of this being true, these blades that I am talking about are blades that a high level player could still use and they are blades that some pros actually do use. And, again, look at how fast NextLevel gets the ball moving with a Primorac and look at how much spin he gets with that blade.

So, the first premise that this information is based on is the understanding that higher level play in table tennis actually revolves around two things:

1) the technique that allows you to generate more spin, MUCH more SPiN.
2) the ability to adjust to larger amounts of incoming spin which is really very related to the ability to generate more spin.

Part of why the ability to generate more spin is related to the ability handle larger amounts of incoming spin is that, part of how you handle incoming spin is by generating spin of your own. But it is also partly because, when you can generate the spin it helps you be able to see the spin that is coming at you better and adjust to it more readily.

The technique that allows you to generate spin is based on learning how to hold the ball on the rubber for longer while you contact the ball at a highly tangential angle so that you brush past the ball. A blade that is a little slower that allows you to hold the ball on the blade face for longer helps you learn how to spin the ball better. Then your technique improves faster.

Beginners tend to like faster blades because it feels like the blade does more of the work and makes your shots faster immediately. But the problem with that is that, without very good technique, those blades encourage you to hit flatter and they propel the ball out with much less dwell time. So a beginner, with one of those faster blades is encouraged to hit flatter and not use as much spin on attacks. And that will slow down your development. A high level player with one of those faster blades won't fall into that trap and he will spin the ball and use the blade's capacities much better. But for a beginner level player, those blades encourage you to do exactly what will keep you at a lower level for longer.

Whereas a slower 5 ply all wood blade like the Primorac will actually encourage you to learn to spin better. And if you are using one of those 5 ply blades to really spin the ball, because of how much more you are using the sponge and topsheet of the rubber when you spin, those "slower" blades are not really that much slower. Again, look at NextLevel's shots with the Primorac.

The other thing the slower blade does is it forces you to learn how to use your body better which improves your stroke mechanics and it also forces your stroke mechanics to improve, because without decent stroke mechanics, with an Off- setup, your shots won't go that fast. But with good mechanics they will go pretty darn fast. So this really helps encourage your stroke mechanics to improve without you even realizing it is happening.

Whereas those faster blades allow you to continue to use poor stroke mechanics and you don't even realize your stroke mechanics are not so good because the blade does so much of the work for you.

Now in that footage of you "Practice of a Beginner", you and your partner both are doing some spinning of the ball. But as soon as you want to make a stronger offensive shot you both go right to flat hitting. That is exactly why you want a blade like the Primorac and not a faster blade. Because in those instances where you take flatter shots, which is almost every offensive shot I saw in the parts of the video I watched, the instinct is not what you want and you want to learn to spin the ball in those circumstances and use the power of your spin to control the point.

The faster blades will encourage you to keep making the mistakes you are making whereas, a blade like the Primorac, the Stiga Allround Evolution or the Yasaka Sweden Extra will ultimately encourage you to spin the hell out of the ball.

Hopefully that will make sense.

It does in many ways, then what rubbers do you recommend?

 

[dominus7]

I'll share other footage, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwu9k6rvIs8 , was taken weeks ago, but when I get the chance to record a couple of rallies I'll share it.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It does in many ways, then what rubbers do you recommend?

Nexy Karis M
Xiom Vega Pro or Euro
Tibhar Aurus Sound our Aurus
Nexy Elpis

Really, there are decent control rubbers from any number of companies that would be good for you.

NextLevel: what do you think?

I'll share other footage, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwu9k6rvIs8 , was taken weeks ago, but when I get the chance to record a couple of rallies I'll share it.

Okay, I will share a few details:

1) You start off not so bad and as you start trying to hit harder and faster towards the middle your form deteriorates. Watch for the parts where your followthrough is lower than your shoulder and across past your left shoulder.

2) you are being fed balls from a coach and it is nice to see you working on strokes. But in a certain way you were doing a couple of things better in the older video and this video does confirm my opinion that a Primorac, an Allround Evolution or a Yasaka Sweden Extra would be okay for you. But it also makes me think that, perhaps the Stiga Allround Classic, Yasaka Sweden Classic or Donic Applegren Allplay may actually be more what you need.

One thing I see in this video with the coach is that, in working on "better form" you are grooving new body mechanics in that may not better. In trying to rotate you are moving laterally instead. In in using your arm you are tightening up and locking the elbow so the angle of your forearm in relation to your upper arm is stuck in the same position.

The changes in body mechanics your coach is trying to help you learn are hard to get into muscle memory so that you do them well. Where you are is a perfectly fine and normal stage of development. So the stuff I said, I don't mean any of that as criticisms. They are simple analysis. In fact I am confident you are well on your way to improving your technique. But there will be some speed bumps along the way.

Here is a suggestion or two to help you improve the form of your stroke a little faster.

1) practice shadow strokes in front of a mirror so you can see what you are actually doing. By watching, it could make it easier for you to improve your form. When you are watching you may make corrections that will help your form.

2) Try to make the shadow strokes feel natural and relaxed.

If I can, later I will post some footage to help.

In the meantime, NextLevel, can you post the video of Brett showing the exercise for a good grip that is not too lose or too tight?


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is the Brett Clarke video about grip tension:

This is something that I made for someone else. The thing that person was doing that I am imitating is different that what you are doing you are going side to side instead of rotating. But the rotation and the fact that my forearm goes from a little straighter to a little more bent while I rotate, may be useful for you to see:

This one where I simply demonstrate a shadow BH and a shadow FH without much fanfare may be useful as well.

After you start being decent at the shadow strokes without footwork, you can start adding some footwork in.

These things will really help you. Especially if you do the shadow strokes in front of a mirror so you can see what you are doing and adjust.

If you did a few thousand FH and BH shadow strokes where you can see your form a few different days between lessons, the next time you hit with your coach, after the shadow practice, your strokes will have improved a noticeable amount. You will feel the difference.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[dominus7]

Here is the Brett Clarke video about grip tension:

This is something that I made for someone else. The thing that person was doing that I am imitating is different that what you are doing you are going side to side instead of rotating. But the rotation and the fact that my forearm goes from a little straighter to a little more bent while I rotate, may be useful for you to see:

This one where I simply demonstrate a shadow BH and a shadow FH without much fanfare may be useful as well.

After you start being decent at the shadow strokes without footwork, you can start adding some footwork in.

These things will really help you. Especially if you do the shadow strokes in front of a mirror so you can see what you are doing and adjust.

If you did a few thousand FH and BH shadow strokes where you can see your form a few different days between lessons, the next time you hit with your coach, after the shadow practice, your strokes will have improved a noticeable amount. You will feel the difference.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Thanks a lot, I'll practice no doubt, by the way I'll buy from tt11, I don't know how is dandoy-sport or other website which sends free shipping, I heard for All-round player 2.0 mm is enough for rubbers. Can you advice me about some website?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

TT11 is good. I have heard good things about Dandoy too.

 

[dominus7]

TT11 is good. I have heard good things about Dandoy too.

What do you think about Yasaka mark v? Will lasts longer than xiom Vega euro/pro?
By the way, you're right, my movement is more robotic than natural [emoji28], and I rotate but I move from behind to front, I don't rotate over my own body, then I push with my legs too.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

 

[dominus7]

By the way, what do you think about Yasaka Rakza 7 for BH and Tibhar evolution mx-p for FH?

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

What do you think about Yasaka mark v? Will lasts longer than xiom Vega euro/pro?
By the way, you're right, my movement is more robotic than natural [emoji28], and I rotate but I move from behind to front, I don't rotate over my own body, then I push with my legs too.

By the way, what do you think about Yasaka Rakza 7 for BH and Tibhar evolution mx-p for FH?

Based on what I am looking at you are at a level where you should probably use the same rubber for both sides. You actually don't even quite know yet what your FH and BH really do well so how could you fine tune rubbers specifically for the needs of your specific FH and BH when they have not developed enough to do anything particularly well or not well.

Both R7 and MXP are great rubbers but both are a little too much rubber for your needs and MXP is definitely too hard for your needs. Both are probably harder than you should use.

Mark V would be fine. But it looks like, once again you are obsessing about equipment choices based on the wrong stuff. Stop looking at what different people on TTDB say about rubbers.

A basic rubber would be useful.

The reason I posted the ones I did is, they all are great rubbers for someone your level. They all are not too hard, medium/soft (that will help you learn better based on what I have seen from footage) and they were all newer generation rubbers, not classic rubbers but not NEWEST generation either.

But Yasaka Mark V rubbers would be fine.

What you don't actually want are:

Evolution series (not any of them: not MXP,ELP,FXP. Not MXS,ELS,FXS)
Tenergy series
Bluefire series
Rasanter series

Mark V would be fine or a softer version of an older generation pre-tensioned rubber like:

Vega Europe
Aurus Soft

Truthfully, this one is based on stuff I heard rather than me trying it but I will be using it soon:

NEXY KARIS-M

If what I heard from people I really trust is true, that is going to actually be a REALLY GREAT rubber FOR YOU.

I tried a prototype of Karis before it came out and thought it was decent but didn't love it. But it was the regular, not the M. And they fixed the thing I didn't love about it since I tried it.

So, since I trust NextLevel, Der_Echte and Baal, I am going to say, if what they say is true, and I am confident it is, GET NEXY KARIS-M and be done with it.

And the reason for using a newer generation rubber than a classic like Mark V is that, at some point you will jump to the newer stuff and the newer stuff behaves a little differently than the Classic rubbers do. So you may as well use newer rubbers and develop with them.

But get the same rubber for FH and BH for now.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One more word, if you do choose Nexy Karis-M, beware because the goon squad will come hunting you down for sure. They really want to get their hands on Nexy Karis-M and we have done a pretty good job of thwarting them from attaining their goals.

So just keep an eye out for suspicious characters trying to heist your new setup if you get Nexy Karis-M


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy