Chinese CNT should not be aloud to play due to support of criminal government.

[zeio]

[warning]I'm a troll. Don't feed.[/warning]

The ITTF should ban the Australian team from any of the international participation because 1 in 5 Australians is a descendant of convicts.

 

[Guybrush123]

So you are suggest that Chinese professional tt-players will be banned for what their guverment is doing? I want a verified link where Ma Long and the rest of the chinese national players are saying they support this.

After a quick look on Wiki, it says this is something that has being talked about since ca.800 a.d when this people invaded China after a defeat in a battle together with the Turks.

Anyway, politics is not to discuss here. This is a great TT site. Keep politics away.

 

[Der_Echte]

As for T95mwp having H3 and EL-P rubbers in his signature, he tries out enough stuff and changes and it is likely a hassle to update what he actually has on his bat.

We could make the case for USA rolling dirty in a dirty dozen of ways and ask why not USA and another several dozen nations, but overall, we generally do not on the forums isolate one unless a situation arises to discuss a particular one.

T95mwp's comment might have been more appropriately said in another thread where a previous comment could have led to a small discussion of this. Don't anyone fault T95mwp for speaking out and representing, but yeah, TTD members are gunna let him know where TTD stands.

 

[ttpshot]

It could be done and happened before with South Africa. Politics and Sports are so close together, more so in some countries. However, I don't think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss that.

 

[Opinari]

I think Yoass was referring to Zeio's post - Zeio is saying the U.S. has committed bad / worse atrocities, with the subtext that Americans shouldn't be pointing fingers. At the least, Zeio is quoting folks suggesting that China has found a better approach with dealing with Islamic extremism (i.e., internment camps / restrictions on exercise of religion).

It's just a gigantic divide in philosophy / worldview on whether means justify the ends (and which ends are justifiable).

The only thing I'll say is that Americans have committed terrible atrocities, especially to minorities and natives. That doesn't change the fact that China is committing atrocities of its own and it's happening now. If it comes from an American, it doesn't make it any less true or damning.

Not really the place for discussion on a table tennis forum and don't know why we need to bring the CNT into this (other than to troll)...

 

[suds79]

This thread. So very glad this is here so we can get all political with it in table tennis forum. SMH.

To the OP. You do that my man. Contact the ITTF. Best of luck to ya.

 

[yoass]

That doesn't change the fact that China is committing atrocities of its own and it's happening now.

The present tense vs. the relatively distant past actually is (or at least, it should be, imho) a significant difference to our current acts. The USA's meddling in south- and middle-american affairs (such as, Allende's ‘suicide’ — he apparently shot him self in the back, with a machine gun, from a 15-feet distance; the active support for the Nicaraguan death squads, etc. etc.) in the near past still is viscerally horrible to me, as are the native american genocides of the 19th century (which many claim to be still ongoing, even accelerating under the current regime). Even the Tian-an-men massacre, at this point, is history.

What's done is done and cannot be undone. Which is an altogether different story from what's happening now. That of course includes the current atrocities in North Korea, in Kurdistan, Yemen, and the pending ‘great breaking of bones’ bloodbath that looms threateningly over Hong Kong. It certainly includes the Uygur ethnic cleansing, which is taking place right before our very eyes. At this moment in time, not in the distant or even near past. A wrong in the past does not make a right in the present, no matter what, in any case.

We may feel we should keep politics out of sports. We can't, where sports are being used to push political agendas. We can close our eyes, of course, but not without making ourselves complicit to that scheme.

 

[Hysteresis]

The present tense vs. the relatively distant past actually is (or at least, it should be, imho) a significant difference to our current acts. The USA's meddling in south- and middle-american affairs (such as, Allende's ‘suicide’ — he apparently shot him self in the back, with a machine gun, from a 15-feet distance; the active support for the Nicaraguan death squads, etc. etc.) in the near past still is viscerally horrible to me, as are the native american genocides of the 19th century (which many claim to be still ongoing, even accelerating under the current regime). Even the Tian-an-men massacre, at this point, is history.

What's done is done and cannot be undone. Which is an altogether different story from what's happening now. That of course includes the current atrocities in North Korea, in Kurdistan, Yemen, and the pending ‘great breaking of bones’ bloodbath that looms threateningly over Hong Kong. It certainly includes the Uygur ethnic cleansing, which is taking place right before our very eyes. At this moment in time, not in the distant or even near past. A wrong in the past does not make a right in the present, no matter what, in any case.

We may feel we should keep politics out of sports. We can't, where sports are being used to push political agendas. We can close our eyes, of course, but not without making ourselves complicit to that scheme.

The US is keeping refugees in literal concentration camps, literally right now. I say that as a person who's country is doing exactly the same thing for longer (they probably got the idea from us), and also doesn't have the conviction to even do it on it's own soil.

The problem is not that criticism from people in the US or Australia is somehow made invalid because our governments are also currently doing horrible things in our name. It's that we don't get to pick and chose who's atrocities get punished in an unrelated sport.

So if we start banning national TT associations because of the actions of their government at large, we either:
a) Apply these punishments unevenly and arbitrarily, dictated by the prevaling global geo-political whims.
or
b) Stop having TT competition altogether, because I garantee the governments of every major country in the world are doing horrible things right now.

Maybe smaller countries like... Monaco or Lichtenstein have completely clean hands and can still participate.

 

[yoass]

True. I opt for (c), to call out and not explicitly or implicitly support politicized events.

Which would imply boycotting Hitler’s Olympics. Or the world football tourney held in Argentina at the height of Videla’s ‘dirty war’. And yes, I’d include current day China as well as USA, both suffering repressive and cruel authoritarian regimes.

 

[Opinari]

As a complete non-sequitur, I'd like to make a shout-out to Gif Jam - an extension for Chrome that freezes Gif animations.

Highly recommended for forum threads on controversial topics

 

[Hysteresis]

True. I opt for (c), to call out and not explicitly or implicitly support politicized events.

Which would imply boycotting Hitler’s Olympics. Or the world football tourney held in Argentina at the height of Videla’s ‘dirty war’. And yes, I’d include current day China as well as USA, both suffering repressive and cruel authoritarian regimes.

By all means, you can call out these things, I would even encourage doing so during the sporting event, if you are willing to suffer the predictable consequences that come with that freedom of expression. That is nothing but noble. Though some may admittedly disagree. Boycotts are voluntarily undertaken by individual teams, also as an expression of dissaproval/solidary.

The Op is not calling for any of that, he is calling specifically for the banning of a single national TT organisation. Which is a punishment pushed by the system onto one party, not one party's voluntary expression of dissaproval.

You can see why people are sceptical, and start to point out his apparent nationality. Expression is one thing, what he suggests is an abuse of an existing power structure to push a political agenda.

 

[bobpuls]

How to unsuscribe from this thread?

 

[Baal]

Athletes don't set foreign or domestic policies for any country, regardless of the nature of the government (or how embarrassing the so-called leader of a country may be).

The only reason I can see for systematically banning players from a country is if those players are systematically doped. CNT players don't fall into this category and they just happen to be better than everyone else.

 

[Caxoera]

Americans complaining about Chineses and vice-versa.... Just one more day at the White House...

 

[Baal]

Americans complaining about Chineses and vice-versa.... Just one more day at the White House...

The OP is very obviously not American, for what it's worth. And a lot of the commenters suggesting it is insane and/ or begging to keep politics off TT forums are Americans.

 

[XXPhlipDonst]

Why being so eager to seize every chance to politicise things? Cant we just play some sport rather than bringing politics?

Like the NBA stuff, nationalists here in China simple point at things like this and be like, look it's the west who hated us in the first place, and we should hate them in return. And fewer and fewer could disagree with them nowadays.

 

[zeio]

This is how Lee Kuan Yew put it in an interview in Hong Kong in the '90s. Some 20 years later, it's still the same rhetoric. It doesn't get old.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/10/10/iraq-o10.html

Trump admits US killed millions in war based on lies

...“The United States has spent EIGHT TRILLION DOLLARS fighting and policing in the Middle East. Thousands of our Great Soldiers have died or been badly wounded. Millions of people have died on the other side. GOING INTO THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE WORST DECISION EVER MADE ... IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY! We went to war under a false & now disproven premise, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.”

...Yet the corporate media has chosen to ignore Trump’s tweet on the protracted US military intervention in the Middle East.

From the standpoint of the bitter internecine struggle unfolding within the US capitalist state, the tweet expresses the sharp divisions over US global strategy. While those around Trump want to focus entirely on preparation for confrontation with China, layers within the political establishment and the military and intelligence apparatus see the continuation of the US intervention to assert its hegemony over the Middle East and countering Russia as critical for American imperialism’s drive to impose its dominance over the Eurasian landmass.

...Under international law, this war was a criminal action and a patently unjustified violation of Iraq’s sovereignty. The Nuremberg Tribunal, convened in the aftermath of the Second World War, declared the planning and launching of a war of aggression the supreme crime of the Nazis, from which all of their horrific atrocities flowed, including the Holocaust. On the basis of this legal principle, Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top US officials, as well as their successors in the Obama and Trump administrations who continued the US intervention in the Middle East—expanding it into Syria and Libya, while threatening a new war against Iran—should all face prosecution as war criminals.

...Recent estimates of the death toll resulting from 16 years of US military intervention in Iraq range as high as 2.4 million people.

...The media’s silence on Trump’s admission of war crimes carried out by US imperialism in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East is self-incriminating. It reflects the complicity of the corporate media in these crimes, with its selling of the lies used to promote the aggression against Iraq and its attempt to suppress antiwar sentiment.

...By all rights, the media editors and pundits responsible for promoting a criminal war of aggression deserve to sit in the dock alongside the war criminals who launched it.

 

[Der_Echte]

zeio hitting a FEW of the notes and excluding some others, like WHO profits from this activity in terms of money, control, and position. A dirty dozen outfits who get the lion's share of DoD's expenditures ought to be a starting point, not just the minions mentioned.

Since we are now progressively openly talking about obvious political bad acting stuff, and the entire forum is not in revolt about it, T95mwp's opening statement may receive less criticism, he may be smarter than we think or is completely naïve... I think it is the first one.

 

[yogi_bear]

In politics there are no permanent allies, only interests.

 

[lasta]

I'd pay to see Trump and Xi play a best of 7.