Coaching for coaches!!!!!

[IB66]

I have started to coach young players over the last couple of years.

I thought that it would be a good idea to start a thread about coaching, how to coach, what to coach, how to make sessions enjoyable for the players, how to coach different styles of play, technique differences for different types of equipment for example SP, Anti etc
drills to use, ideas from around the world.

In England, ‘official’ ETT coaching accreditations go from level 1 to level 4
I have the ‘Level 1 session coach’ this is the entry level accreditation
Level 4, I think, requires a degree level sporting degree and proven coaching history showing that you have coached players and brought them up to national / international level.

Firstly it would be great to see how many ‘Official’ coaches with a table tennis coaching licence or accreditation are lurking in the background on this forum!! So if you are please respond.

Now, you may think why ‘Official’, because it shows that a person has decided to be recognised by a countries Table Tennis ruling body. And has been assessed to achieve certain standards.

This does not necessarily mean they are a good player.

There are many players that have great experience (in being coached) and are high level players that can offer better advice in some cases, they may well run coaching sessions, help out etc but do not have a coaching badge / License etc.
Players such as those listed on the ‘Safe Video’ Thread.
So if you see yourself fitting into this category please respond as well.

 

[turbozed]

This is a great idea! I think the subject matter should also overlap significantly with lessons for self-coaching as well, which should pertain to a lot of us.

 

[IB66]

This is a great idea! I think the subject matter should also overlap significantly with lessons for self-coaching as well, which should pertain to a lot of us.

Yeah, it will definitely overlap, if people respond and offer up info about coaching techniques, ways of coaching, thoughts behind stroke technique , history of stroke technique, how things have changed, how things are currently evolving, how to evaluate what you see happening when you coach, how to give advice during a match, what to look for and analyse, how to analyse, when you are watching a student in a match situation. Etc etc

 

[turbozed]

Yeah, it will definitely overlap, if people respond and offer up info about coaching techniques, ways of coaching, thoughts behind stroke technique , history of stroke technique, how things have changed, how things are currently evolving, how to evaluate what you see happening when you coach, how to give advice during a match, what to look for and analyse, how to analyse, when you are watching a student in a match situation. Etc etc

I think the general principles of skill acquisition and the research literature supporting them are important resources. I've linked to them in different threads before but I'll try to add them to this thread. Andrew Huberman did a great review of the literature in a podcast episode, which I found a great intro to the subject matter.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

many years ago, I took part in ITTF level 1 coaching course and has been certified.
I think the certificate expires about 6 or something years, so it has probably expired by now

ITTF has up to level 3.
Level 1, is really, basics of the basics. You don't even need to know how to play table tennis to pass it.

I learnt nothing from the course, but having my name registered on ITTF registry as a certified coach was ... hm... somewhat little special.

never used that certificate for anything though.
The course was held in South Africa and I took part.

There was something like a 25 hour practical, which we had like 6 months to complete. 25 hours of coaching log.
I did it in 1 week, but I end up filling in about 100 hours on the log. I did the practical hours in Taiwan, so that was easy to do at 6 days a week.

I still remember, the course had meals and travel covered to a certain value (they paid x Rand per km traveled to the course location).
I told them, I flew in, would you cover Taipei to Cape Town per kilometer? lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yogibear is a ITTF Level 1 course coaching conductor - meaning he can give the course and accredit you.
I think he is also a level 2 certified
Matt I think is also level 2 certified

I once wanted to get level 2 certified, as since there isn't really many of them, and even fewer level 3.
but I have not seen a place giving a level 2 course in the past few years.

The level 1 course in SA came around once every 5 years or so

 

[IB66]

many years ago, I took part in ITTF level 1 coaching course and has been certified.
I think the certificate expires about 6 or something years, so it is probably expired

ITTF has up to level 3.
Level 1, is really, basics of the basics. You don't even need to know how to play table tennis to past it.

The level 1 session coach doesn’t cover much in the way of technique, 4 basic strokes, FH push, BH push, FH & BH drive. Serve rules.
It’s more concerned with how to plan a session, what to include, ie warm up and warm down exercises, breakdown of the mini sessions within the whole session. Risk Asseements, Method statements, checking venue safety, safeguarding youngsters. Reflection on the session, feedback, how to go about asking questions so you don’t get a one word answer!!
having a contingency in mind for unforeseen changes. Some input on multi ball, how to engage learners, how to make it fun!! Progression within the session etc etc etc

A lot of stuff is left to the coach to find out for themselves, this is one reason for this thread, sharing info.

I will, at some point, try to do the level 2 lead coach course, but that’s for the future!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The level 1 session coach doesn’t cover much in the way of technique, 4 basic strokes, FH push, BH push, FH & BH drive. Serve rules.
It’s more concerned with how to plan a session, what to include, ie warm up and warm down exercises, breakdown of the mini sessions within the whole session. Risk Asseements, Method statements, checking venue safety, safeguarding youngsters. Reflection on the session, feedback, how to go about asking questions so you don’t get a one word answer!!
having a contingency in mind for unforeseen changes. Some input on multi ball, how to engage learners, how to make it fun!! Progression within the session etc etc etc

A lot of stuff is left to the coach to find out for themselves, this is one reason for this thread, sharing info.

I will, at some point, try to do the level 2 lead coach course, but that’s for the future!!!

yeah,
the only useful thing in that ITTF course was the Australian schools table tennis course (can't remember the name).
It has some non TT school kid friendly drills/games.
I think it is called TOPS of something like that.

other than that, I felt I was able to give my course conductor some coaching course.
The ITTF level 1 was kindof incorporate things for non TT personal.
So I really found that 2 day course very boring.

I'm also eager to see ITTF course members on this forum and if any took on level 2 and if it adds any value.
Many top tier TT countries, coursing accreditation has higher value (more difficulty) than ITTF's one.

 

[palguay]

I like doing experiments, I wanted to try the techniques of mixing up practice (most coaches do one stroke then after the student learns go to stroke 2), but interleaving concept means that if you actually start doing them both they learn faster as the brain makes connections (initially the first one may seem better). So I took two guys in their 20's one of them had played with a hardbat and the other had not even played the game.

I did 10 session and they made significant progress, I could not at that time do any data collection as it was for learning but it convinced me based on their progress that it was a better approach to base it on some science

here are the video's in case you are interested

 

[IB66]

I like doing experiments, I wanted to try the techniques of mixing up practice (most coaches do one stroke then after the student learns go to stroke 2), but interleaving concept means that if you actually start doing them both they learn faster as the brain makes connections (initially the first one may seem better). So I took two guys in their 20's one of them had played with a hardbat and the other had not even played the game.

I did 10 session and they made significant progress, I could not at that time do any data collection as it was for learning but it convinced me based on their progress that it was a better approach to base it on some science

here are the video's in case you are interested

One of the things that is sort of frustrating is the pace of improvement of the players, bearing in mind that everyone is different, that many youngsters will just play once a week for an hour at first. Progression is slow, for many they just want to play, have fun.
So any changes to how we coach and how the learner is affected, especially regarding how fast they progress is a real bonus.

 

[palguay]

One of the things that is sort of frustrating is the pace of improvement of the players, bearing in mind that everyone is different, that many youngsters will just play once a week for an hour at first. Progression is slow, for many they just want to play, have fun.
So any changes to how we coach and how the learner is affected, especially regarding how fast they progress is a real bonus.

It need not be that way, I play tennis and in tennis when a beginner starts they start with a bigger ball with less bounce (red) then they go to orange ball and then green dot before moving to the regular ball. The same concept can be tried out with starting with hard bat and removing the spin part and then start adding a bit spin and speed as they progress . there are many such things but it requires a problem solving mindset which is hard to find

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

One of the things that is sort of frustrating is the pace of improvement of the players, bearing in mind that everyone is different, that many youngsters will just play once a week for an hour at first. Progression is slow, for many they just want to play, have fun.
So any changes to how we coach and how the learner is affected, especially regarding how fast they progress is a real bonus.

need to understand what the goal is.
what resources is available, and then can try and put a program together.

age group is also important.
I started TT in an elementary school and got the school to buy 4 tables to start.
I bought in a coach to take over, as I was only there to start.
It was a private school. Kids were spoiled brats.
They weren't there to learn table tennis, parents just want a baby sitter and for kids to kill time.

So not so much TT in learn and developing the basics. But rather fun games to kill time and "exercise" while doing it.
That was what the customer wanted, so gave it to them.

 

[IB66]

need to understand what the goal is.
what resources is available, and then can try and put a program together.

age group is also important.
I started TT in an elementary school and got the school to buy 4 tables to start.
I bought in a coach to take over, as I was only there to start.
It was a private school. Kids were spoiled brats.
They weren't there to learn table tennis, parents just want a baby sitter and for kids to kill time.

So not so much TT in learn and developing the basics. But rather fun games to kill time and "exercise" while doing it.
That was what the customer wanted, so gave it to them.

Right,

I am one of a 3 man coaching team at SPINS table tennis academy.
The other 2 coaches are way more experienced, as both coaches and players, they both have the level 2 lead coach Badge / qualification. One was Sri Lanka junior champion, back in the day!!

We are self funding, players pay for table time not the coaching as such.
We run 2 sessions a week, Tuesdays and Fridays 19.00 to 21.00, 2hrs split into 2no 1hr sessions.
1st hour is for beginners and improvers.
2nd hour is for players that are of a better standard and players that have progressed in ability, attended 1st session and moved up to the 2nd session.

our initial aim with new players / beginners is to get players up to a good base standard, footwork, technique & consistency in FH & BH drive, top spin, top spin v back spin, push and a couple of serve techniques.
If we achieve this we would then advise the players to find another club that is able to take them on to a higher level, and are perhaps more serious in their approach. (Not to say we don’t take things seriously!!) A club that has better players, has teams that play in local, but also national club level leagues etc.

players that attend the 2nd session, are a mix of those juniors that have moved up and older local league players that want to climb up the league divisions.
With the older players, some have not had much ‘proper’ coaching, so depending on their individual strokes, some are definitely not text book!! We work with what they have and we try and work on technique and consistency where possible, as well as match strategies etc. we have a couple of premier local league standard players, that are happy with how we go about thinngs, we are still able to help them to keep improving, although they should really move to a more advanced club.

7 tables, if busy, usually about 16 players in the 1st session, so it’s multi ball multi player on one table!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Wow, 2 days a week, at 2 hours only is indeed very little and tough.
While in Cape Town, I was lucky to have access to a hall 4 times a week, and I took 3 hours each.
12 hours a week is so little for me to work with, but it is better than those 2 x 3 hours other clubs had.

I reserved min 3 tables, and did multiball only.
I had a group training session, aim at 3 per table. Some times will go over to 4 tables.

Will train min 3 times a week and I tried to teach every player to feed.
So the idea was, one feed, one hit, one pick up balls.
I prepared 1000 balls, and that doesn't last a year. Balls get stolen or broken.

The players all had basics, some are better than the other, and seeking national team (junior players). While others were beginner for years and had no improvement.

I saw one common trait - they couldn't move, or had no idea what is proper footwork.
So with multiball, that was the perfect tool to fix the footwork, so I started with basic movement drills and teaching them how to move. For the first year, all we did was move.
Later on, I will start working more on hitting the ball.

Here is a player that had 1 year of TT and joined our training.
This was his second year playing and first year with me. He wanted to try 3 point FH at higher pace.
He was mid 30s already I think.

Happy to say, when everyone was moving better, as the other techniques started to improve too.
That was 2013. I started coaching in 2012. So was still a noob coach

 

[IB66]

Movement and footwork is something we should concentrate more on, but when a player plays once a week they wanna hit balls!! So sometimes it’s like being between a rock and a hard place!!

ideally, the players that come to us should also go to another club where they can ‘play’ and to us for coaching.
Unfortunately, clubs in our area with a regular club night for general play are few. Many are just ‘match’ clubs.

We have a waiting list, so there is scope to expand, but a lager venue with enough tables is gonna be more expensive and harder to find. We would like to expand, the more people we get playing, the more will hopefully continue to play looking into the future.

increasing table time is also an option, the venue we use is a school with a new sports hall, they close at 9pm, we could start at 6pm, but we all work, getting there for 5.30 to get set for a 6pm start is too tight, as it is, I sometimes struggle to get there for 7!!! Finish work at 5, 1hr+ commute home……!!! Perhaps we could persuade the school to stay open until 10pm!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Movement and footwork is something we should concentrate more on, but when a player plays once a week they wanna hit balls!! So sometimes it’s like being between a rock and a hard place!!

ideally, the players that come to us should also go to another club where they can ‘play’ and to us for coaching.
Unfortunately, clubs in our area with a regular club night for general play are few. Many are just ‘match’ clubs.

We have a waiting list, so there is scope to expand, but a lager venue with enough tables is gonna be more expensive and harder to find. We would like to expand, the more people we get playing, the more will hopefully continue to play looking into the future.

increasing table time is also an option, the venue we use is a school with a new sports hall, they close at 9pm, we could start at 6pm, but we all work, getting there for 5.30 to get set for a 6pm start is too tight, as it is, I sometimes struggle to get there for 7!!! Finish work at 5, 1hr+ commute home……!!! Perhaps we could persuade the school to stay open until 10pm!!

Yeah, if you can do 7 to 10pm, that is a good option.
or even 2.5 hours till 10pm.

I guess many places all have the same problem in the western world.
No place to play, or not enough hours (and tables) to play

Wish you the best of luck on the venue part

 

[IB66]

To gain any official TTE (Table Tennis England) coaching accreditation, you have to do a child safeguarding course seperately, but one approved by TTE, this is similar for many other sports bodies, and other activities that are work related and involve children. The course I attended had other people from varied sports, jobs and ones that run social clubs etc.
In addition to the safeguarding course, a DBS check is also mandatory and I believe maybe a legal requirement, This is an official criminal record check. It has to be done every 3 years, if you are a volunteer there is no charge for the repeat checks, 1st check costs around £50. If a DBS check is required for your job, it’ll cost you £13 a year to be in the ‘update service’ or £50 every 3 years.
From memory the Level 1 course was around £190
So in England you are looking to lay out £300 ish to get a coaching license. The safeguarding course was about £60ish for 1/2 day course.
However the cost of the TTE level 1 course is partially recoverable, our lead coach filled out the paperwork and I received £150 back!! I don’t know the ins and outs of this, but if certain criteria are met a refund is available.
At the end of the day, it cost me more for the safeguarding course and initial DBS check than the actual coaching license and course!!!

 

[IB66]

Safeguarding includes ‘at risk or vulnerable people’, Criminal record check, speaks for itself, it doesn’t necessarily mean that having a criminal record stops you from coaching, depends on the offence.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Safeguarding includes ‘at risk or vulnerable people’, Criminal record check, speaks for itself, it doesn’t necessarily mean that having a criminal record stops you from coaching, depends on the offence.

so true,
people tend to just think kids or womens
but society now caters for at risk and vulnerable

I do feel, since society is improving and more people are taken into consideration, you do need to have some mechanism to certify all the tom dicks and harry coaches, so atleast the basic checks are done.

For the coaches in question, it is just part of the costs of doing business. I'm assuming a few hours of (charged) coaching could cover the costs.

 

[Ghostzen]

Trying to increase table time for younger players is key I think as others have said. Building good foundations on techniques can be hard with limited time. 1-2-1's very benifit the players.

Kudos for putting in the work IB66.