Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Shuki]

@Shuki
It is just how I practice them.

Yes, I understand practicing in a way that you don't play helps more than practicing in a way that you do play.

 

[Archosaurus]

@Shuki

More-so I mean that I don't need to always reset fully when I practice serves. Sometimes you are tired or want to look very closely at what the ball is doing. I was looking at the spin, height and depth here. Don't tell me you've never practiced serves like this.

Of course, you shouldn't practice serves like this if you can't serve them in games and reset fast enough in the first place. Maybe then it is more important to be able to reset.

 

[Shuki]

@Shuki

More-so I mean that I don't need to always reset fully when I practice serves. Sometimes you are tired or want to look very closely at what the ball is doing. I was looking at the spin, height and depth here. Don't tell me you've never practiced serves like this.

Of course, you shouldn't practice serves like this if you can't serve them in games and reset fast enough in the first place. Maybe then it is more important to be able to reset.

being tired is the best time to practice serves correctly. in games you get tired.
Yes I have practiced serves like that, until I realized I was practicing in a way that was less than optimal.

 

[Archosaurus]

@Shuki

I understand, but I don't think it is so important.

 

[NextLevel]

Yesterday, I went to the club to do my usual coaching. I am trying to get my main student to slow down so to set the tone I had to slow down my pace and loop to him with mostly control. We are going to slow down and get the form right. I have no problem slowing things down because I sped up my game naturally as my cognitive process got faster and game got better. He on the other hand hits the ball hard almost all the time and gets bored when the pace is not there. This leads to a reluctance to rally at the lower levels, going off balance as he almost invariably hits harder than his technique can sustain with balance and major confidence issues when playing 50% shots.

The main thing I tried to remind him was that there was no point trying to do things he already did well, whether we agreed or not on whether they were things he should be doing. IMO, he has already maxed out the potential of that game given his age and talent level. He now has to improve his block and learn the 50% rally game where we take advantage of 2000 level footwork issues and put the ball in places where footwork and strokes break down.

A new guy came to the club and needed a coach so I agreed to work with him only to find out... HE WAS A PENHOLDER. I can coach penholders on forehand strokes but not the grip or other subtleties. But he said he wanted basic instruction so I tried my best to show him how to forehand block and how to forehand loop. He said he wants to take a lesson today. I am not sure it's fair to coach someone on something you don't understand the subtleties of, but I guess it might better for him than nothing.

I need to get back to training even if my body annoys me - everyone is getting much better and I have to catch up.

 

[Der_Echte]

I think the serve is good. Maybe practice getting ready for a return after the serve instead of just watching it and grabbing the next one as quick as possible.

On a certain level, that is the right response, but if the goal is to develop touch, placement, slash other factors, that isn't so important.

Trying to do everything at combat speed from the beginning is too many variables to control and consistency/performance goes down the drain.

Goofing off and serving a few minutes a day is a good way to develop touch, but if your name is Der_Echte, that takes a very very very long time to get said touch and effectiveness, but it is possible with persistence.

 

[NextLevel]

The serve is a good start but it makes a lot of errors common in reverse serves and it will be virtually impossible to add high level deception to it as is.

 

[Garrison]

Played against the first in the league yesterday (we are 2nd) and lost 4-9 sadly. Started with a 0-3 in doubles which pretty much sealed the deal. It's not that big of a deal though because they are quite a few points ahead anyway and the 2nd will go to relegation.

I went 1-1, both of them were very serve+first ball focused which I sometimes struggle against. The hall being pretty damn cold didn't help with that... The new balls might be my savior They will become obligatory in Germany by season 19/20.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

Yes, I understand. The mechanics is fundamentally wrong, because I feel I straighten my arm out mainly to get the spin. The elbow needs to be able to stay more or less the same for a higher level serve. A bonus is that it will also be contacted closer to the body, then.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Hi tech tournament today. Scoring, organization and stats through mobile app !!
First opponent surprised to see me "Do you know the rules ?" yes, and here is 11-3, 11-7, 11-1 for you ! LOL, but he was not strong.

LOL not for long, next game, i'm facing a much tougher guy, around my level. But i get really spanked. No warm-up. I was refereeing a match and called immediately for this one. I really failed at all levels. Especially not moving at all, and can't return serves. Also, the guy was waiting for the ball completely on his BH side, covering the whole table from there ! normally it should be easy to take advantage of this for example serving down the line, or from the middle of the table but basically thats my worst match i can remember in a long time.

Next, a chopper with LP who seldoms attack. I beat a clone (same style, about same level) of this player very easily last Thursday 3-0 2-1 so I was full of confidence and rightly so i won the first 11-4. But i was overconfident and then he made some subtle changes and won 11-3. I was utterly angry against myself, feeling i didn't focus enough and put him back totally in the match. I never recovered mentally from that, i didn't move well, and lost 3rd and 4th not by much , but maybe 3 or 4 too many topspin or smash, that I should put in. Should congratulate him, but its more my own failure. Especially that he almost never attacked and didn't even have very good serves.

Next chopper with SP, leftie, he attacks much more than the previous guy, but i feel his consistency is a bit below. So i should logically win. I don't want to do the same mistakes, and I am focused from the start. I win easily the first set. In the second, its more of a fight, and I start to lose confidence and move less well, but i still manage to stay ahead till the end 11-9. I think the most difficult part is behind, but my level goes down another gear in the 3rd, i can't return those long serves with FH attack any more. I try to stick to him but he wins it 9. in the 4th, i don't play much better, he got the better start, but i don't wanna give up because i feel a 5th set would be very dangerous for me today, given how weak I feel mentally. I don't play very well, there are (too) many pushing or short game rallies but i fight for everything and win it 9. Not glorious

Last, a guy about my level, or just below ? his BH is consistent but he cannot really put too much spin acceleration with it, a good and powerful FH attack, he can attack 3 or 4 in a row, but I feel his attacks lack speed and spin variation which means its not difficult for me to control and block.

Again, I'm not moving at all, and tactically this guy manages to play in my BH. I can't take the initiative most of the match, and I have to morph into a blocker ( at the table) and try to resist most of the match. I win the first set 13-11 against the odds as i was behind all the time, i don't know how. I win the 2nd 11-7 with the momentum, the only set where i could attack FH. It looks like i'm set up for a 3-0 win after all, this scenario happens quite often against the underdog (tough 1st set won with some luck then cruising).. but i get a bit tired perhaps and my block wall starts to be seriously damaged. He pockets 3rd and 4th and at this stage it really looks dire for me. I tell to myself that i have to be more agressive and stay positive, but my legs are not moving much still. I manage to get a good start in the 5th by changing a bit my serves (short with more backspin to his FH or middle) 5-1 for me looks good, 9-5 but he fights and he starts to close on me 9-9... I finish with the serve, i make at last a good combo now i'm serving 10-9 for the match....
he saves it with his first big TCHOOOO of the match, (i've been tchooing a lot as usual).... then comes his second bigger tCHOOOOO at 11-10 for him... i feel really like Sh*T... next point, in the middle of the rally, the ball his the net for him, and bounces on my side.. just behind the net on my FH side... :-(

By some miracle i get this ball back, and win the point big TCHOOOO for me ! but i still don't know how i'm gonna get 2 more points... Fortunately, he doesn't play well the next 2 points, and i win this one. Not glorious at all, but at least i end the day with 3victories/2defeats, i would have really felt like crap if i had lost again this one.

Not a good tournament for me, i had much better expectations given how well i'm playing at training, i was moving so well Thursday and Friday again. If there was a rating system here, i would have lost points today. I played a lot below my usual level. I have to understand how to manage better my emotions, how to prepare better for matches, keep the focus, not panic, and be able to analyze and switch tactics.

 

[StehTischtennis]

We also had a game yesterday. Even after a good start with a 4-0 lead, we still had to work pretty hard to finish winning 9-7.

The exact same could be said about my first singles match in this game.
Starting strong with 2-0, then made a lot of unforced errors. I then lost the next two games and was down 8-4 in the 5th.
Thankfully my teammate suggested a timeout by shouting from the other side of the hall @8:19

Somehow I'm not a fan of taking a timeout, because of the low level we are playing, but this time it did really help.
Played the next balls much saver and did catch up 8-8! Then I lost the next two points with a bad fh top spin and a push error. 10-8 behind. Managed to remember a serve variation I didn't do all game and really kept fighting up to 10-10. @9:30

My unboosted Hurricane H3 NEO and mainly my reaction was too slow to return the ball from half distance, so trailing 11-10 @9:55

Then the best rally in the whole game @10:00, 11-11. Started shaking from all the adrenaline.
Did some safe pushing and counters and suddenly I'm leading 12-11!
Managed to win the next point with a short spiny BH service and won the game!

I really need to work on learning a softer less risky forehand top spin and wait for a good ball to do those power/smash spins I'm always trying to do.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

here's the full vid of my last match

but really, i think its a very poor performance from me, much below my usual level, apart the final result. In the 1st set i try to attack but miss all my FH mainly because of my slow and messy footwork. Then i lack overall confidence during the whole match, become static and passive and the only thing i can rely on is my blocking game and my fighting spirit (especially in the 5th)...3rd and 4th set are a disaster

only the endgame from 22:50 is really worth watching a bit

 

[NextLevel]

Again, I'm not moving at all, and tactically this guy manages to play in my BH. I can't take the initiative most of the match, and I have to morph into a blocker ( at the table) and try to resist most of the match. I win the first set 13-11 against the odds as i was behind all the time, i don't know how. I win the 2nd 11-7 with the momentum, the only set where i could attack FH. It looks like i'm set up for a 3-0 win after all, this scenario happens quite often against the underdog (tough 1st set won with some luck then cruising).. but i get a bit tired perhaps and my block wall starts to be seriously damaged. He pockets 3rd and 4th and at this stage it really looks dire for me. I tell to myself that i have to be more agressive and stay positive, but my legs are not moving much still. I manage to get a good start in the 5th by changing a bit my serves (short with more backspin to his FH or middle) 5-1 for me looks good, 9-5 but he fights and he starts to close on me 9-9... I finish with the serve, i make at last a good combo now i'm serving 10-9 for the match....
he saves it with his first big TCHOOOO of the match, (i've been tchooing a lot as usual).... then comes his second bigger tCHOOOOO at 11-10 for him... i feel really like Sh*T... next point, in the middle of the rally, the ball his the net for him, and bounces on my side.. just behind the net on my FH side... :-(

By some miracle i get this ball back, and win the point big TCHOOOO for me ! but i still don't know how i'm gonna get 2 more points... Fortunately, he doesn't play well the next 2 points, and i win this one. Not glorious at all, but at least i end the day with 3victories/2defeats, i would have really felt like crap if i had lost again this one.

Not a good tournament for me, i had much better expectations given how well i'm playing at training, i was moving so well Thursday and Friday again. If there was a rating system here, i would have lost points today. I played a lot below my usual level. I have to understand how to manage better my emotions, how to prepare better for matches, keep the focus, not panic, and be able to analyze and switch tactics.

I don't think I have laughed as hard at anything posted on this site in a while now. THanks for this.

 

[NextLevel]

here's the full vid of my last match

----

but really, i think its a very poor performance from me, much below my usual level, apart the final result. In the 1st set i try to attack but miss all my FH mainly because of my slow and messy footwork. Then i lack overall confidence during the whole match, become static and passive and the only thing i can rely on is my blocking game and my fighting spirit (especially in the 5th)...3rd and 4th set are a disaster

only the endgame from 22:50 is really worth watching a bit

Your forehand technique is partly at fault as well, I would suggest you look at your shot selection and see whether you are always swinging the way you think you should have swung at the ball, regardless of footwork. You seem to have at least two strokes and you are overusing the one that is less accurate.

 

[Archosaurus]

Sa! Saa!! C'mon!!!!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I don't think I have laughed as hard at anything posted on this site in a while now. THanks for this.

what I like on the vid is that the guy refereeing is laughing and having a good time as well...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Your forehand technique is partly at fault as well, I would suggest you look at your shot selection and see whether you are always swinging the way you think you should have swung at the ball, regardless of footwork. You seem to have at least two strokes and you are overusing the one that is less accurate.

I agree i should take a bigger backswing, i notice its less accurate with a shorter backswing (its correlated with the fact that I'm late). the bat angle is also too vertical too often.

I don't know if its the same for you but in a tournament, if the first (real) match goes bad, and something doesn't work as usual, i feel like its very difficult to fix for the next match. I was in a total lack of confidence, felt very slow and couldn't do much with my FH with is usually my stronger shot.
I mean in this 5 set game, the only successful attack comes at 9-9 in the 5th, and its on a rather easy (high) ball, thats very unusual for me...

 

[NextLevel]

I agree i should take a bigger backswing, i notice its less accurate with a shorter backswing (its correlated with the fact that I'm late). the bat angle is also too vertical too often.

I don't know if its the same for you but in a tournament, if the first (real) match goes bad, and something doesn't work as usual, i feel like its very difficult to fix for the next match. I was in a total lack of confidence, felt very slow and couldn't do much with my FH with is usually my stronger shot.
I mean in this 5 set game, the only successful attack comes at 9-9 in the 5th, and its on a rather easy (high) ball, thats very unusual for me...

It used to be like that for me, but working with Brett, I learned over time when I review the video to identify the swings I am taking at the ball, so I can tell when my swings are salute/spin and when my swings are drives/shallow finish so when I am missing, I switch from shallow/drive to salute/spin so I can land more shots. Every top pro has the salute/spin shot which they deploy on hard tricky balls, even in topspin rallies, if you don't know what to look for you will think they are driving the ball all the time.

Also, I have learned the hard way not to swing at the ball with the same racket angle or the same drive mentality all the time in practice, even if it means I have to loop the ball into the net if I command myself to, it causes you to tense up when the ball slows down or you are playing unfamiliar opponents with different timing because you can't adapt your swing to their ball. I used to wonder why when I traveled out of my club I was missing so much, but when I developed my salute shot and learned to play with spin vs drive selection, that mostly went away, only unless I was facing pressure from my opponents.

 

[NextLevel]

I used to think French lefties like Legout, Gatien and Lebesson just did their own thing and never used to salute. But if you look carefully, even if they are good at their own style, they have the salute shot. Like look at the second forehand that Legout plays here. IF you watch the match, you will see as it goes on, he is saluting more and more because of Timo's level.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLkxRqGbCW8&feature=youtu.be&t=105

Brett made a whole video which was pretty much saying - yes, NL plays a very strong drive, but he probably drives the ball too often - he told me I need to select more salutes because I clearly have a salute shot, I just didn't select it against enough balls. My old coach had been telling me this too watching my matches and I knew it, but sometimes, habits die hard when you are not playing enough strong players and my knees make it hard for me to balance. But as with all things, I get better at it with time and practice.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

which exactly is the salute shot ???