Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Shuki]

About the tire scratching thing. I can relate, yesterday i trained with a junior of ours and everytime he topspinned the ball it made a scratching sound. He said its because his rubbers are worn out.
To me that makes sense, as the topsheet doesn't seems to have enough grip and the ball slips slightly and gets gripped again.

So maybe you need a new rubber.

as my rubber wears down I start making more contact with less and less brush. There can be no tire screeching by doing this. If a player's rubbers are worn out and he's still brushing the same, there wouldn't be enough spin to land the same shots as before. It sounds like this player has decided missing the table with old rubber is better than adjusting to that old rubber.

 

[Shuki]

I can't imagine where I'd be without having a coach of some sort. Most of the things that seem obvious that you'd never think about even though they make sense just don't cross your mind. Then as soon as a high level player says to do that thing, you'll be telling yourself "well duh! why haven't I been doing that before, it's so obvious!".

Also multiball, so important. Drills over strokes that you don't normally do against players of equal or higher level get learned this way. Imagine you have no backhand flick so you never use it in games or even drills because you don't want to make someone go pick up the ball every time you miss as you slowly figure it out. Well with multiball and a coach, they not only correct your problems with the stroke so you don't develop it wrong, but you get to keep trying the shot until it sticks a little more and more. You get 40 chances to do the stroke in the time it would take you to get 2 chances.

 

[NextLevel]

I can't imagine where I'd be without having a coach of some sort. Most of the things that seem obvious that you'd never think about even though they make sense just don't cross your mind. Then as soon as a high level player says to do that thing, you'll be telling yourself "well duh! why haven't I been doing that before, it's so obvious!".

Not necessarily. You can argue with the higher level player in search of the logical answer. What Archo is doing is not uncommon - many smart players do a version of this -you can only get away with it if you have a coach who is of the kind of intellectual temperament that his answers suit you.

Also multiball, so important. Drills over strokes that you don't normally do against players of equal or higher level get learned this way. Imagine you have no backhand flick so you never use it in games or even drills because you don't want to make someone go pick up the ball every time you miss as you slowly figure it out. Well with multiball and a coach, they not only correct your problems with the stroke so you don't develop it wrong, but you get to keep trying the shot until it sticks a little more and more. You get 40 chances to do the stroke in the time it would take you to get 2 chances.

Yes, but the simplest way to say what you are saying - you cannot learn to do the stroke by reading about it!

 

[Cornel]

@Archo, forum members have already said a lot about this, but I have to say it one more time - all the talks here sound good, like there are talking some physicians, but this whole lot of talks is nothing but non-sense as long as you have no evidence to discuss on. As Carl said, it is okay to feel a little uncomfortable to post a video of yourself playing, in my country there are also a lot of video who feel uncomfortable when being filmed, even if they play at a pretty good level. But you got to understand that if you post a video it will be all okay - it will be fantastic and everyone will be happy. Carl, NL, and other members will stop all this useless talk and almost begging to post a video, you will finally get some real help, which is going to be millions of times more useful than any comment left here based just on your description. And you got to understand that your description are almost always being over-complicated. Even pros don't use such complicated explanations for what THEY do(I can tell you this based on personal experience of talking with pros and listening to them talking between them).

It is good that you seem to understand that pure talking won't help anyone. But continuing all these talks despite this is again a non-sense. You shouldn't be ashamed of any video of you playing table tennis unless you are appearing naked in it. I can guarantee you that no one of the known and respected members here will make fun of any video of you playing because everyone here understands that WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE. You are now only at the very beginning of the road and you already have to face a big problem - the lack of a coach. And the lack of a coach from the very beginning is quite a big issue, taking into consideration your situation - you are trying to learn table tennis based on pure instinct and a lot of assumptions that you are making about your progress, having no video of yourself and having no experienced players to watch that video and to point your future tasks. Why is that such big of an issue? Because you may have some of the fundamentals wrong and you just keep going with that. If you keep going with the fundamentals wrong for a long enough time(or till a certain age) you may find yourself in a situation that you can hardly correct or you can't correct what is fundamentally wrong in your technique.

That being said, I sincerely believe in your willingness to improve and I hope that you overcome everything that keeps you from posting videos of actual matchplay or training of you against a training partner. I hope that everything I said above makes sense and you will understand the main points of this post.(sorry for the long one)

 

[ttmonster]

I think so ... worth a shot than paying 74 dollars

Wait....do you think that machine can make my Tenergy play like new? Hahahahaha.


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[Der_Echte]

Bullseye. The concept of purely grazing the rubber is a useful misconception - how would you project the ball forward if you didn't have impact with the wood, even when serving? You just experiment with degrees and get to a point of acceptance. But getting too theoretical will not do anything for your TT.

Kim Jung Hoon is always saying that one should CATCH the ball on the bat, that is a good explanation I think.

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[ttmonster]

First day playing with FX-P , changed from MX-P. Quite a few times it felt like I was trying to fence with a limp sword in my hand. Is MX-P more forgiving than FX-P because of the power that comes with the harder sponge or is that my technique/timing needs a lot of adjustment ?

 

[Ilia Minkin]

First day playing with FX-P , changed from MX-P. Quite a few times it felt like I was trying to fence with a limp sword in my hand.

Haha, this is the exactly same thought I had when I tried FX-P on a friend's racket

 

[ttmonster]

I am used to Tenergy 05 in the backhand, MX-P was good but sometimes felt like I did not get as much spin as I would with T05 meaning the speed to spin ratio was higher than Tenergy ... had more power and lesser spin .. , I guess the Fx-P sponge is too soft .... I will wait for the booster to wear off and hopefully it will make the sponge harder .. but if it keeps behaving like this after a couple of weeks , I will have to get rid off it ...

Haha, this is the exactly same thought I had when I tried FX-P on a friend's racket

 

[Shuki]

First day playing with FX-P , changed from MX-P. Quite a few times it felt like I was trying to fence with a limp sword in my hand. Is MX-P more forgiving than FX-P because of the power that comes with the harder sponge or is that my technique/timing needs a lot of adjustment ?

Fx-P isn't for power at all, off the table loops tend to dip too early and into the net, but it should be MORE forgiving in all other aspects.

 

[ttmonster]

When you mean "off the table" you mean from mid distance right ? I will tell you exactly when I felt this ... my loops are generally off the bounce ... however , when I am out of position or when the ball comes as junk , I am able to use my wrist to make a decent loops , all such trys were going down ...

I will try to give it some more time and see if the change is just messing with my feeling ...

Fx-P isn't for power at all, off the table loops tend to dip too early and into the net, but it should be MORE forgiving in all other aspects.

 

[Shuki]

The rubber is already so soft. If you boosted it, it may feel like mush, and the characteristics may be really odd. Can't really imagine boosting it.

 

[Archosaurus]

@Cornel

I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in my game. Where I am now in 2 some years with no coaching and no high level players of any kind nowhere to be found is fantastic IMO. Could be a lot worse.

To make a video with a partner, I need a partner who will do drills/games with me and their permission to be filmed. If you play at a club, you probably don't have problems with this. Even then, there are people in clubs who simply don't want to be filmed, either.

 

[ttmonster]

I was talking about the in factory boosting ... I did not boost it , just water based glue ...

The rubber is already so soft. If you boosted it, it may feel like mush, and the characteristics may be really odd. Can't really imagine boosting it.

 

[Archosaurus]

Well this is funny.

I thought about my prior issue a bit based on what was discussed, and it's *mostly* fixed itself. I can't really tell you what has happened apart from "It feels better". I think my angle is somewhat more closed, but I can't say for sure. What is certain is that something has changed. I can brush loop a lot better now.

It's probably pretty awful in the grand scale of things, but my forehand confidence has improved. Long, half long, fast, slow, spinny, dead, doesn't matter. Anything a non-coached person can throw at me is game. Even sidespin is possible at will.

Now I understand why people love fast, dead serves.

It's not much but it's a start.

 

[JeffM]

After a week of no playing at all, which was longer than I imagined it will be, I went back to the table today and played table tennis. The reason being I saw a physio ytd, and he says my knee pain is due to the outer thigh muscles being too tight, and that pulls the knee cap slightly each time I do a loop. So he did accupuncture on my muscles. It hurts. But now, instead of knee pain, I have slight discomfort in my thigh muscles (probably due to them being weaker now after the accupuncture), which is what he wanted as he wanted my inner thigh muscles to work harder to build up enough strength to counter the outer muscles.

So far, I think it is working.
I hope it is working.

I need to get back to training asap as I would not want to miss out anymore of the prep for my upcoming competition. But at the same time I do not want to risk damaging my knee. So a balance is crucial. Hence, my next 'training' will be saturday, and depending on how I feel on the day, hopefully I can move a bit more freely and feel less of the thigh muscles soreness.

 

[ttmonster]

If the muscle is weak you need to figure out ways to strengthen it ...

After a week of no playing at all, which was longer than I imagined it will be, I went back to the table today and played table tennis. The reason being I saw a physio ytd, and he says my knee pain is due to the outer thigh muscles being too tight, and that pulls the knee cap slightly each time I do a loop. So he did accupuncture on my muscles. It hurts. But now, instead of knee pain, I have slight discomfort in my thigh muscles (probably due to them being weaker now after the accupuncture), which is what he wanted as he wanted my inner thigh muscles to work harder to build up enough strength to counter the outer muscles.

So far, I think it is working.
I hope it is working.

I need to get back to training asap as I would not want to miss out anymore of the prep for my upcoming competition. But at the same time I do not want to risk damaging my knee. So a balance is crucial. Hence, my next 'training' will be saturday, and depending on how I feel on the day, hopefully I can move a bit more freely and feel less of the thigh muscles soreness.

 

[Cornel]

@Cornel

I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in my game. Where I am now in 2 some years with no coaching and no high level players of any kind nowhere to be found is fantastic IMO. Could be a lot worse.

To make a video with a partner, I need a partner who will do drills/games with me and their permission to be filmed. If you play at a club, you probably don't have problems with this. Even then, there are people in clubs who simply don't want to be filmed, either.

I just forgot to mention that filming only yourself should be ok - imo having your training partner in picture won't help too much.

 

[JeffM]

If the muscle is weak you need to figure out ways to strengthen it ...

Yeah, I know exercises that can train the inside muscle (VMO) from back then when I had operation for my other knee.
I think the soreness currently is due to weakness in the outer muscles from the accupuncture though.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@Archo: PNut's theories where not the problem. His physics was spot on. He just wasn't doing what he thought he was doing.

On the other hand, I have a feeling that your theories are off and, at the same time, you are not doing quite what you think you are.

In any case, kind of cool how all your technique miraculously fixes itself when faced with the prospect of posting video. LOL.

It's all good. If there are that many defense mechanisms against posting, no need. The only person harmed would be the person who stands to learn something. But....

Oh and by the way, if you are training with someone, and you have a friend hold your phone and film you and NOT the person you are hitting with, then the other person does not have to worry about whether you are being filmed. Because they are not being filmed. So you don't need someone else who is willing to be filmed.

A friend filming for 3-5 min from a few different angles that allow you see what you are doing clearly, would help you a pretty decent amount even if you didn't post it here. Analyzing footage of yourself is really worth doing.

So, the car tires slipping and screeching because of too much tangential force causing the tire rubber to fail, the weight of the car, the force against the ground, the fact that the car cannot move the ground, these things combine to cause a scenario that cannot happen with something as light as a TT ball in flight in mid air. If you put the racket on a surface like a table, and too the ball in your hand and pressed into the rubber, and then applied tangential force (pushed to the side) you could get the ball to slide in a way that caused the rubber of the topsheet to fail. And then you would be buying yourself a new rubber.

In TT when the ball slips on the rubber, it is not because of rubber failure but instead because of not enough contact, so the ball slips off. Usually the ball doesn't really go where you were expecting when that happens.

When you loop, what you feel is the rubber grabbing the ball. There are a variety of sounds you could here from that happening. I think what is happening when you feel the rubber grab the ball is something like this: the ball depresses the topsheet and sponge. But there is also a tangential force which causes the rubber to stretch and distort in the direction of that tangential force. When the ball sinks in and distorts the topsheet as it stretches it tangentially, more of the topsheet wraps around the outside of the ball (more grab).

When you add the tangential speed of the racket to the rebound of the stretched rubber it seems this is where most of the spin comes from with a good loop.

And if the rubber does grab the ball, there will be no screeching sound. And my guess is that the imagined rubber failure and screeching sound could easily have been birds flying around the table or the squeaking sound of your shoes on the ground.

But nice how quickly you are looping ever different kind of ball that comes at you. With such speedy progress you will be 2700 in no time. [emoji2]

Glad we got you to learn correct technique so fast. LOL.


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