Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

NL, 99% of my progress has pretty much nothing to do with my stupid questions.

It's like you still don't understand why I ask them.

 

[NextLevel]

I've recorded maybe 3 or 4 videos of myself. And often think about recording another. It's not hard to do, but it is a good amount of effort that I'd PREFER not to do. I already carry 2 bags with me and adding a tripod to the mix is usually what stops me from bringing my camera.

I disagree almost entirely with the part of it taking 2 years to put a stroke into your game. For me, I'm 80% games 20% drills. Being a game player once I get a drill down that stroke goes into my game extremely quickly. Like within a couple weeks it's something I'll do regularly in games.

But getting that stroke right in drills takes me a lot longer. I can't get a new stroke right in drills for months on end. I'm the reverse of most people's issue with getting a new stroke.

Lastly, how often have you tried new things against a bad player? I'm willing to guess those new things or changes worked out pretty damn well and you got pretty confident in those strokes. I for one, feel like a fantastic player when I play someone bad because I just don't miss anything if I try. Then as soon as I play someone closer to my level or higher, the light shines on me and I realize it's a lot tougher to do any of the things I was doing to the bad player.

This is my perspective and experiences, I'm sure they're different than other's. I'm by no means a good player but I FEEL like I know what I'm talking about. I'm sure with more experience I'll look back and think. "Wow I was an idiot when I was at that level" (1760 usatt for those who don't know)


Sent from my Phone using Tapatalk

You are talking about quality video or recording long practice sessions. But for self practice, you can simply stick the camera on the other side of the table and even hit back and forth over it with someone. Or you can ask someone to please record two minutes of your practice. Or you can stick a camera on the wall and get some videotape. In fact, Brett never asks for more than 2 minutes of video to get what he needs to get out of seeing you. And if you watch your practice, you can see why - over time, you get better at seeing what is a technical error vs. what is just a missed shot. When we are not technically educated, we confuse both. When we become technically aware, we can tell a bad shot that was lucky to hit the table or a good shot that was unlucky to miss the table. As a coach, you want to encourage the latter and discourage the former.

Taking two years is a matter of perspective. I also disagreed with Dubina's claim initially. But the more I thought about it, having good technical shots that are effective is really about 1800 level play at least if not 2000. Even the hardest working players tend to take about 2 years to get to 2000 if they are largely beginners. Most people who do it in less have basement play that they were not credited for and put in about 4-5 hours a day.

Trying things against bad players is part of the development process. But we are talking about the point when you feel confident using the shot against peers and better players without any conscious thought about execution and pressure. And the point is not so much that it always takes 2 years, but that it can take 2 years.

Your experiences are not different from mine. Everyone goes through it. It is the ones like Archo that need to be reminded of what the experience is like because they never seem to grasp the implications that are the most confounding, even if it enables them to handle certain things that a more objective person would not.

 

[Shuki]

I think I know what's really happening with arch, and I'm pretty confident he'll disagree. So I'll only say this once to try and not piss too many people off.

Arch found a passion for a game, he found a community to talk about the game with. Now what it feels like for a beginner on this forum, is that there's this inside club of players that have a blast talking to eachother and helping out. That club consists of people like NextLevel, Carl, Der_, etc.... Now to get into this club you can simply be a good player, you'll know what you're talking about and you'll be welcomed instantly. Or you can post video's of yourself with all your problems showing how you're trying to learn (that's your best shot arch). But the way arch has gone about trying to get "in" is by seeing other of these club member's posts, restating them to help people out, hoping the club members will see that he knows what he's talking about and accept him.

But they don't accept him. He posts questions and answers come up and he says "oh I got it now you're completely right, blah blah blah, this and that, it all works now!" (Please accept me, I get it!)

Club members who know how long it should take call his bluff outcasting him again when all he wanted was acceptence.

Arch then says lots of reasons why he actually does get it because his bluff was called and he's trying to back his story up, he doesn't want to be even further from making it to the cool kids table. He just wants to share his passion with the other's who get it, but he doesn't understand the right way to go about doing so. He needs to either just start posting videos, or go about it with another path.

 

[NextLevel]

NL, 99% of my progress has pretty much nothing to do with my stupid questions.

It's like you still don't understand why I ask them.

Then go make your own thread and chit chat on it about how much you have improved. At some point, not getting the plot makes you a nuisance and you are old enough to be held accountable.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

vs learning to actually even intercept the ball and make contact, for example.

Hahahahaha. I love this. After all this time you have finally learned to swing and hit the ball instead of whiffing. Is that what you are saying the big improvement is???? Hahaha.

This gave me another good laugh. Thanks Archo.

I've only heard a very small number of people use the terms of Tracking and Intercepting the ball. I got this idea from a friend who used to be a tennis pro and is now a tennis coach.

The idea is, when you punch or block, you put the racket in line with the ball and then the racket moves forward into the ball. This is safer and a lot of low level players do this. Where, instead of making a stroke, they just move the racket forward in a straight line in the path of the ball.

Whereas, when you take a real stroke, you have to judge and time your stroke to intercept the ball because there is only a small area in space where the path of the stroke crosses the path of the ball.

Then the tracking part of the equation is, that, when the ball is placed further to the left or right, you have to track the ball so that you move your feet to an optimal place to take your stroke and intercept the ball.

These concepts of tracking and intercepting the ball, some of which are things that Brett's TTEdge App actually helps you work on, are good things for any player to be aware of as part of the process of developing skills.

But, in spite of me understanding what these mean, and being able to explain them, I am wondering where Archo got the term "intercepting" from and why he all of a sudden presented the idea that he has trouble actually putting his racket on the ball.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[NextLevel]

Saw this after my post, can't reiterate this enough. Arch we can easily remember a year ago and how much worse we were. We probably think wow I was dumb then. But that doesn't mean we know anything now. I'm confident in 2 years, Nextlevel will be thinking he didn't know nearly as much as he does right now. And this will continue to be the case as we all improve.

Just try to keep in mind, the HUGE difference in skill between me and Nextlevel should be enough on its own to just shut up and agree with everything he says. The difference is so much, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in playing him vs me playing a professional. And I'd damn well listen to a professional.


Sent from my Phone using Tapatalk

The difference in level is not as large as you think. IT's just that I like to teach, that's all, and it is easier to teach adults when you have an idea in words of what is happening. I just got lucky to be exposed to coaches who could explain to me things that most people have to take for granted through experience.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Regardless of anything else--and sorry again Archo for me playing around with how you present yourself--if Archo makes video footage of himself playing and simply watches it himself but never shares it with us, it WILL REALLY help him learn and improve. I don't care if he posts. But if he videos and watches, he will be able to help himself and learn.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[NextLevel]

Carl just put in the dreaded 666 post - DerEchte is envious...

 

[Archosaurus]

Carl, I never said I have problems getting my bat on the ball. Are you going to imply that I also learned to walk recently because I mentioned it in my post?

Sorry, but you're just speaking silly things.

On the topic of video, I have taken video for myself in the past. I'm not scared to look at myself on camera.

The angle was always terrible, but it solved my problem at the time. It's far too outdated to show anymore, but that was never the point. How do you think I have fixed my strokes if I never saw them? With the power of imagination and delusions?

Maybe if my partner would get together to do drills and games with me, I would film from there again. It's a behind shot from slightly above and behind somewhat farther away, but it shows the important things, I think. Just not the actual contact on the ball, sadly.


@Shuki

Well, I'm not going to disagree. I guess it's something like that.

EDIT: I took a look at the videos. The shot is not that bad actually, lower than I remember. A bit too narrow though, due to my ancient phone.

Oh shit what the hell was I doing back then...

 

[baumschule]

Today I played Tenergy for the first time. After playing with Roxon pretty much since it came out I glued a slightly used Tenergy 05 in 2,1mm from one of my teammmates on my blade. After the first few warmup strokes I thought "WOW, why haven't I tried this sooner". Everything seemed to work so much easier whether it be blocking or looping. Then I went into matchplay and it went the opposite of good So many of my loops ended up going over the table and a lot of 3rd ball attacks against backspin went into the net. After being down 0-2 in sets I asked my partner if i could do some more forehand loops before continuing with the match and to my surprise I was not able to get more than 2 loops in a row on the table despite having no problems during the initial warmup. I'll try again over the next week but maybe Tenergy is just not for me. How long does it usually take for you guys to get somewhat used to new equipment?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Archo, since I was speaking in metaphors and you clearly misunderstood what I was rambling on about since I was just having fun, I will explain it.

Earlier you used a concept from race car driving of when the tire rubber fails. I am guessing this was about what happens to a tire if a driver takes a turn at a high enough speed that the tangential force of the car causes the tire to no longer be able to grip the road and you get tire burn as the car skids.

You took the concept and threw it into the scenario of a table tennis loop where the forces and physics are different and where the topsheet failing would likely require you to get a new rubber. But the mass of the ball isn't enough to cause that anyway.

Now in the post you made that made me laugh you took the term "intercepting" to make a simple point that isn't really what the higher level discussion about tracking and intercepting the ball is actually about.

So, really, all I was doing was pointing out that yet again, you took a term with the intention of sounding technical and used it in a way that showed you didn't fully understand the context or usage of the term that would make it a useful concept for improving TT skills.

So yeah.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Der_Echte]

I used T05 in Korea for one year, because I used a 5 Euro rubber on BH. I got used to it the first day it seemed. Once BTY jacked hte price of T05 from 40 Teuros to 65-70 Teuros, I quit using T05 real fast.

Took me a month, but I got used to Aurus, now MX-P (Soon to be Nexy Karis)

If you have any kind of stroke where you catch the ball and accelerate the bat, T05 will be a dream.

 

[Der_Echte]

To be fair, I tried out Carl's V+ with MX-P, a flexy blade hard sponge combo that I thought would be utter hot flaming garbage, but I managed to make some serious spinny loops spinnier than I normally make, which is already excessively spinny. I rarely missed a loop with that setup looping at PP Holic over a year ago in a 5 minute continuous loop practice. (many of the minutes spent picking up ball, because it got blocked long )

I say that to say - YOU NEVER KNOW sometimes, expectations might not exactly turn out the way you expect.

 

[Shuki]

@Shuki

Well, I'm not going to disagree. I guess it's something like that.
Oh shit what the hell was I doing back then...

I understand, I think it was yesterday I made a post and NL replied to my post saying, "Bullseye". It's a good feeling when the cool kids look at us with acceptance. Hell even when they hit that like button on one of our posts, that feels damn good.

 

[baumschule]

@Der_Echte Good point about expectations. I tried to go into the session with an open mind but maybe with so many people saying that Tenergy is the best rubber for a looping game I expected too much especially after those amazing first shots. I'll try to record myself during tomorrows multiball practice (no promises on the quality though). Maybe you guys see something that I don't

 

[Der_Echte]

The video doesn't lie. It doesn't show touch and grip pressure control, but it shows crouch, position, knee bend, fluid mechanics, where you hit ball in zone and most other stuff you need to see to trouble shoot inefficient power transfer. recovery, timing, and whatever.

 

[Shuki]

If you're a looper of a decent level, once you use a new sheet of tenergy for the first time, you're going to be frustrated when you realize the game is pay to win ;P

 

[laistrogian]

Today I played Tenergy for the first time. After playing with Roxon pretty much since it came out I glued a slightly used Tenergy 05 in 2,1mm from one of my teammmates on my blade. After the first few warmup strokes I thought "WOW, why haven't I tried this sooner". Everything seemed to work so much easier whether it be blocking or looping. Then I went into matchplay and it went the opposite of good So many of my loops ended up going over the table and a lot of 3rd ball attacks against backspin went into the net. After being down 0-2 in sets I asked my partner if i could do some more forehand loops before continuing with the match and to my surprise I was not able to get more than 2 loops in a row on the table despite having no problems during the initial warmup. I'll try again over the next week but maybe Tenergy is just not for me. How long does it usually take for you guys to get somewhat used to new equipment?

I switch equipments all the time so mostly rubbers are: tenergy or not tenergy for me. People who don't use something like MX-P or bluefire M series generally will be thrown off by the high-throw. My clubmates took 3 weeks to adjust his opening loop from vega pro to T05.

If you're a looper of a decent level, once you use a new sheet of tenergy for the first time, you're going to be frustrated when you realize the game is pay to win ;P

What most players can realize is how tenergy is like a cigaratte, not everyone's into it but once you do, you're damned to use it forever

 

[Archosaurus]

@Der_Echte

Probably the biggest change in my game has been just getting lower and more forward. Wouldn't have done it without video, because it required some physical training so that I can feel comfortable in a more correct stance.

Of course, everything else improved based on that. But I had to see that I was standing up like a damn tree. Probably wouldn't have ever made the change if I didn't see it on tape. This is why video review is stressed, right?

 

[DTopSpirit]

This thread is always a lot of fun to check out every day, it's nice to see tt players just shooting the breeze. I've got a spare couple of minutes so I might just chip in my 2c worth.

I've played now for just over 30 years, most of it at a reasonably high level, and I can say with reasonable assurance that many of the high level players wouldn't actually know or care about stuff like topsheet overloading, bottoming out, throw angles, dwell time etc. They pick a rubber that feels fairly good when they put it on their favorite blade, then go out and practice heaps with it. Mainly the basics just over and over. With attention on fixing problems straight away.

Internet forums are the right place to come and talk about everything and anything related to table tennis. But if you are spending your time in the training hall obsessing over minor details when you can't hit a loop against a push with any consistency, you are worrying about the wrong things. If your technique doesn't allow you to put the racket through the hitting zone with speed, stable racket angle, and fast recovery, then you don't need to worry about topsheet overloading or which rubber to use, you need to be working on fixing your technique up. That's where a good coach and video feedback (especially slow-motion) can be very useful, in conjunction with hitting a ton of balls.

Remember, if you are under 2000, you have a lot of basics in your game that you need to work on. Focus on them in the training hall, them come to the Internet and chat about whatever you like regarding table tennis. Maybe even post a video of your basic technique for evaluation, you might learn something useful. Heck, after 30 years I learned that I was hitting my forehand too far in front of me, once I changed that my forehand went from being mediocre at best for 30 years, to a real powerful weapon. But I never thought of making that change myself - I had to talk to another coach to discover that.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, so I'll sign out here. Cheers all.