Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

@UpSideDownCarl

You can be a joker about it, but I'm asking a legitimate question. My backhand is not any good and I can't counterloop with it at all, but NL's backhand is way above his supposed playing level. To me it looks like he is hitting more flat and into the sponge than using the topsheet and brushing. Why is that and how does it work?

I think better worded would be to ask: Why can't you brush counterloop on the backhand? Or CAN you? Is a flatter more driving stroke producing a more quality ball, is it more consistent, is there some problem with brushing into heavy spin etc.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@UpSideDownCarl

You can be a joker about it, but I'm asking a legitimate question. My backhand is not any good and I can't counterloop with it at all, but NL's backhand is way above his supposed playing level. To me it looks like he is hitting more flat and into the sponge than using the topsheet and brushing. Why is that and how does it work?

You do make me laugh and I appreciate that. So I couldn't resist jumping on the comedy. Thank you for the entertainment.


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[Archosaurus]

Carl, why do you complain that I ask things stupidly and don't understand anything when these are the kinds of replies I get?

 

[Der_Echte]

Archo, there are MANY BH shots possible for each given ball. Those who have seen me play know I use a mean fast semi flat BH smash drive with little to zero backswing.

That shot is perfectly acceptable and it is good to be ready to use it vs short or high balls.

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[ttmonster]

I got a couple , did not work out for me last time , will give it a shot again. I also got a couple of ankle guards ...

Ankle Guards , Compression Socks, Knee bands , Wrist Bands , Skull Caps ... slowly I am transforming into a Samurai Warrior !! LOLOLOL at me !

I don't have specific details... a friend mentioned 'compression socks' ... not sure if it's able to help you out. Mentioning just in case it's applicable and you haven't tried yet.



IN THE ZONE BABY!! FLOW STATE FTW!!

 

[Archosaurus]

Archo, there are MANY BH shots possible for each given ball. Those who have seen me play know I use a mean fast semi flat BH smash drive with little to zero backswing.

That shot is perfectly acceptable and it is good to be ready to use it vs short or high balls.

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Is it a preference thing or is that kind of shot better against that kind of ball?

I (try to) have a whippy backswing and more spin over speed on my backhand. Every time I try to counterloop with it, it flies either straight up or over my opponent's head. Only way to deal with topspin is to hit flatter.

I think the reason is because I hit into the spin and can't overcome it with my racket speed, and even if I did it would not have so much spin because it jumps off immediately.

What NL is doing looks flat but it has a lot of spin: so is he brushing along the side, or taking the spin off the shot? Both?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Ankle Guards , Compression Socks, Knee bands , Wrist Bands , Skull Caps ... slowly I am transforming into a Samurai Warrior !! LOLOLOL at me !

*rubs hands together*

Come over to the Dark Side!

 

[Der_Echte]

Archo, suggestion. Vs incoming topspin ball, if you want a consistent bh loop, step to the ball. Take ball right off bounce with VERY loose wrist. Do not use a backswing. Just move fore arm back a little and a tiny bit of wrist precoiled. Take ball off bounce loose wrist and go through the ball with a third power.

Once you get the timing, later, you take ball later and use larger arm/wrist more explosiveness.

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[Der_Echte]

You do not need much of a swing or follow through to make a counter bh topspin.

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[OldschoolPenholder]

Archo, suggestion. Vs incoming topspin ball, if you want a consistent bh loop, step to the ball. Take ball right off bounce with VERY loose wrist. Do not use a backswing. Just move fore arm back a little and a tiny bit of wrist precoiled. Take ball off bounce loose wrist and go through the ball with a third power.

Once you get the timing, later, you take ball later and use larger arm/wrist more explosiveness.

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Timely reminder for me, thank you Der!

When we played last week Tuesday, you gave me that advice ... i had not played in some weeks prior to that night and forgot all about the faster racket/rubber setup i was using for now and went for my oldschool long stroke

 

[Archosaurus]

@Der_Echte Hmm, okay. 1/3 of power and nearly no backswing? I am swinging much too hard and long, then.

I will go back to the very basics and try your suggestion. Thank you.

@UpSideDownCarl

What specifically did Dale say about plowing into corners if I may ask? I most likely know the answer already, but I've never heard an oval driver talk about traction sensing techniques.

 

[ttmonster]

So you did not play after that, and did not write it down either, .... people only listen when they pay for lessons ... just kidding .... LOLOLOL

Timely reminder for me, thank you Der!

When we played last week Tuesday, you gave me that advice ... i had not played in some weeks prior to that night and forgot all about the faster racket/rubber setup i was using for now and went for my oldschool long stroke

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@Der_Echte Hmm, okay. 1/3 of power and nearly no backswing? I am swinging much too hard and long, then.

I will go back to the very basics and try your suggestion. Thank you.

@UpSideDownCarl

What specifically did Dale say about plowing into corners if I may ask? I most likely know the answer already, but I've never heard an oval driver talk about traction sensing techniques.

Hahahaha. This is great. You know I just made something ridiculous up. No sane person would have said what I was pretending he said.

As far as BH against a loop:

Counterlooping requires delicacy, touch and precision. You can use the other person's power if they loaded the ball with spin.

Somehow it seems that NL's inquiry has been diverted to a totally different subject. I wonder how that could have happened.


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[Archosaurus]

Hahahaha. This is great. You know I just made something ridiculous up. No sane person would have said what I was pretending he said.

As far as BH against a loop:

Counterlooping requires delicacy, touch and precision. You can use the other person's power if they loaded the ball with spin.

Somehow it seems that NL's inquiry has been diverted to a totally different subject. I wonder how that could have happened.


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I thought you were serious about his claim, though. It's not untrue. Even Ross Bentley talks about this in his book. Page 69 "STEERING WITH YOUR FEET" covers it.

The steering is more like a brake when at the limit in a car. If you try to steer more than the tires can physically handle, it will understeer a little bit ie: plow. If you're already very close to the limit or right on it, very small steering adjustments cause slight understeer, which can be used to feel your traction levels mid corner.
It's also common to crank the steering quite a bit when warming up the tires on the first few laps to heat them up and feel their grip levels. Touring cars on slick tires but without excessive power or downforce suffer from this because there is nothing to get the tires to the high temperature and keep them there reliably, so it's one thing drivers do.

Sometimes the stupid things you say aren't completely senseless.

I don't think the talk about backhands has gone off topic. THIS ^^ sure has hahahaha.

 

[Der_Echte]

@Der_Echte Hmm, okay. 1/3 of power and nearly no backswing? I am swinging much too hard and long, then.

I will go back to the very basics and try your suggestion. Thank you.

@UpSideDownCarl

What specifically did Dale say about plowing into corners if I may ask? I most likely know the answer already, but I've never heard an oval driver talk about traction sensing techniques.

The minimal to zero backswing makes your stroke a lot more stable. Makes it easier to use the step to the ball as the timing to impact, which is much harder with a long swing. Loose wrist and ball off bounce gives a lot of control and consistency. Not a boatload of spin, but the shot lands, yet still troubles opponents as your shot is QUICK, like quick off bounce, not high speed, but robs time from opponent to read your shot. Very consistent if you can time your step to the ball, stay loose, and take ball right off bounce. Doesn't need much power or long follow through.

Once you get this easy timing down, you can move more progressively back and make longer, more violent swings for a different BH counter topspin.

Consistently landing the shot builds confidence and counts for a lot.

 

[Der_Echte]

Many players jack this all up by trying to use too much wrist or too much long arm or rotate off shoulder or come across body.

You move to ball and if needed, you can extend the elbow more forward to position, but there it must stop and be stable, so must upper arm.

People also jack it all up by going for too much power. 30 percent possible power taking ball off the bounce is plenty of power to send that sucker back to where it came from quick. Often, opponent doesn't know what/how it hit them, timing is too off time for them. You took the ball earlier and now they have less time to process it all.

 

[Der_Echte]

This isn't the only right answer, but it is a solid approach or method. Be progressive. Get the mechanics and step in and relax and position down first, use little backswing or forward swing. Often, my swing on this shot is less than 30 cm, yet it comes back quick and troublesome.

Later, when timing and position are better, progressively go for a little, I mean only a little more power at a time in a progressive manner as timing, loose, mechanics and impact get better.

TT University has a vid similar to this. A member asks the coach how he can make the BH more aggressive. Coach explains to start from the block, and more progressively off the bounce use a little more power, just a little more. It is a pretty similar concept.

The confidence gained from this carries over, but don't go apeshyt right away and expect to be the boss. It takes a while to get it all down. Go SLOW PROGRESSIVE.

 

[Der_Echte]

1/3 of power at first might even be too much, it depends on the incoming ball.

The main point is that it takes MUCH less power than you think to make an effective off the bounce counter BH topspin than one would think. Your looseness, timing and impact count a lot more.

 

[ttmonster]

Der_Echte , this is gold stuff you are giving out for free .... the only challenge I have had while grooving the stroke to start off you need somebody to block it low and consistent so that you can take it off the bounce easier and with some incoming power to work off ...

 

[Michal_Z]

Guys, I shared some vids in My VHS records topic..
But for you here I wanted to share this video:

Not everyday you see someone save so many matchpoints.. This one is even better than Mizutani vs. Xu Xin ;-)