Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OldschoolPenholder]

Last Thurs, I played the steady lobber again. Played him a week or 2 ago. That night, i lost 3-1, 3-0, 3-0 and as he was King of the Table, I played him a 4th time, but he was getting tired. Despite his fatigue, I barely won the match LOL Won it 3-2 with 2 or 3 deuce games.

This past thurs I was tired and ready to go home but he arrived late. I waited for a chance to play him. I lost to him 3-0. But they were glorious losses! I've always rushed my shots but there were a few points where I:

1. just played to return the ball and if he attacked and won the point, so be it. Key was for me to be steady and return the ball and not lose the point because I rushed myself to end the point immediatedly. I played for him to make a mistake vs playing to win the point outright.

2. On his lobs, quite a few times I rushed and missed or hit the ball out. So on some of them I waited a half a second more or so and smashed it for a winner.

Wins and losses are inconsequential to me. Despite the losses, I was somewhat happy with my performance. Still need loads of work, but as Robert McCall said: "Progress not perfection." I made progress.

Hope i follow through with it this week.

 

[NextLevel]

OSP using the old man's trick - play the opponent until you wear him out and he loses because he is tired of playing and playing you. LOL

 

[NextLevel]

Hi guys. Haven't been posting much lately.
I lost a bit of motivation these times, a bit less time training, bad results in tournaments, caught a long lasting cold...
But I slowly recovered and started running again and getting a little back in form

If I try to reflect of my TT evolution in the last year's, well despite a lot of (one to one) coaching, not too much result. I think all the strokes have improved to some extent and that I'm more consistent in rallies but serve/receive/3rd ball is still not consistent especially under pressure (end of sets or when trailing).

My footwork is getting slower as well, maybe it's my main weakness. And I'm naturally too lazy..Ah well...

I have a question for you guys. Yesterday I went to the TT facility but my usual buddies weren't there. So I decided to have a run. When I came back to the TT room after that, there was a group of 7 youngsters playing together so one left alone and I asked him to play with him but he declined, so I left ( not much regrets anyway those 7 were all below me)

I'm happy I had this run but I'm wondering because this kind of things often happen: if I'm alone should I go to the TT club and hope to find partners and if not just go for a run or muscle training else should I go to a place a bit further out and try to book a coach for an hour ?

And if my partner's aren't here even if I find a guy to play, no guarantee on his level or his willingness to do drills...

I like to hit the ball and stay two hours or more at the club, but its frustrating to go there and not being able to have a good session.

Thankfully my club has a web camera and it is very helpful for us annual members. We see who is training and how full the club is and we can call in and ask people when they are leaving and decide whether we want to go in or not.

My own thing is that find things you can practice with worse players even if it means you may lose to them while doing so. Usually if I am going to practice with a worse player and he wants to play matches, I try to beat him very badly in the first game or match so that he doesn't have any illusions about my true level so that when I start messing around he knows that I am messing around and he knows that he should be grateful to have fun if I am messing around as opposed to suddenly acting like we are the same rating because I lost a game or two to him or even a match while messing around.

I try to practice with everyone and being able to have a reputation for losing when experimenting or working on your game will help you a lot in the club. Of course there are some loudmouths you may decided to never allow to win just because they think every win is a real win.

But to refocus on your question, I go in and try to find people to practice how I want to. If no one is There, I do it by playing matches where the goal is still practice even at the expense of winning. And if there is no way to get reasonable practice I work on self multiball and serving. And when all fails and I am too bored I go home.

 

[42andbackpains]

I have been tinkering with my fh loop for a long long time. Trying to make it more compact because i am about 185cm in height and i feel as i get older & slower that i should not have such a big swing. Recently i have been not happy with my fh loop because i feel i am not generating enough power. i pointed out to one of my coaches that i am contacting the ball in the certain area of the racket when i loop. As illustrated by my work masterful work of art below. So he told me i am choking up too much and not letting my arm out when i am loop. I am sort of jamming myself. So i tried lengthening my arm at the point of contact and give my body a tad more distance from the ball. Well what do you know, the spin and power generated was much greater. Also the contact point was more closer to the crosshair or just a bit left of the crosshair, which is pretty much optimal. But i have been striving all along to make the stroke more compact, but at the loss of power and spin. Should i go back to the wider big swing with full extension? or keep on the path of the compact swing. At this point the more power and spin is very enticing. More things to work on....

 

[Der_Echte]

Consider a little more knee bend, a little more hip turn, and some more shoulder turn backwards. This will get you to swing the shoulders a good chunk before you impact the ball. That actually allows one to impart maximum force on the ball. When you do that, most of the hip and shoulder turn to hit the ball has already happened, so you got only the lower arm and some upper arm drag forward to salute after the impact. That is not a lot of force to slow down and reset (your arm) Trying to slow down a lot of shoulders and waist uncoil along with that arm is a load to handle. The little extra prep lets reset happen easier and makes the stroke overall compact.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@NL
I have not much problems playing with a weaker player. My problem is that often when I'm alone, other people are in groups and whether they're good or not, they just wanna play with people in their group even if they're an odd number of people and one is just waiting or watching....the group mentality is strong in Japan

 

[suds79]

Had a tournament last weekend and I've got to say, it was my personal best.

So normally in the open singles you play a prelims where you try to qualify for the highest division you can get. The organizer, because we were pressed for time, decided to just place us by rating so we could play best 3 out of 5 vs 2 out of 3. That's fine and all but I have a low rating and I got placed into the C division. Wanted to make B & win some games but what can you do. Out of my hands.

Having said that, I've never won a singles event before. I've won doubles events, come in 2nd a couple of times in past singles events. But never won a singles event. I knew I was probably the favorite to win it but I still had to go out there & do it. Can't choke. Well.. I got it. Was so happy. Had to work for it but I took 1st in the C Singles. On top of that, my partner Cuong & I took 1st in B doubles which had some real nice players in it. I was thrilled.

Early on my stance and active feet were better than they had been. I see it in the full matches I recorded. It's something I'm trying to work on. But as I check the video, old habits of too upright and planted feet die hard so I'll have to keep at it. But it was better. I'll take it.

Had several games I won where at one point I was down say 4 or 5 points in that game. I don't know what changed in my mentality in the past might have been afraid thinking "well this game is over", I just didn't worry about it and kept fighting. So I think I'm most proud of that. You're never out of it until the game is over. I think I was most happy about my semi-finals match where I was down 1 game to 2 and trailing 8-10 (so match point) in the 4th game. My opponent had been on a run doing something that was annoying me given I should handle this one aspect better but I could tell wasn't in my game at the time. Instead of playing outside of myself or doing something that wasn't in my game (that's what practice is for) I just played steady, kept fighting, managed to get it to deuce and won that game 12-10. I then proceeded to take the next game in the final set. Had to work for it.

Again thinks to members in this forum in the past who have provided feedback on my videos. I really think they've helped a lot and I know where I need to work on things. Namely, get lower, move feet, tighter serves, and develop a better soft loop RPB. Use less TPB. Too passive.

So here's a fun video I put together from the tournament. Wish I had more footage or would have recorded my semi-final or final match.

 

[NextLevel]

@NL
I have not much problems playing with a weaker player. My problem is that often when I'm alone, other people are in groups and whether they're good or not, they just wanna play with people in their group even if they're an odd number of people and one is just waiting or watching....the group mentality is strong in Japan

The group mentality is also human nature. We had to create rules in most TT clubs in the US to prevent this kind of stuff. Sometimes, there is a club appointed supervisor or kind helper who if he is correctly motivated helps with players who need to find matches - I for example will just play *anyone* who comes to my club no matter their level for at least 15 minutes just because I want to keep people coming to the club.

 

[Brs]

@NL
I have not much problems playing with a weaker player. My problem is that often when I'm alone, other people are in groups and whether they're good or not, they just wanna play with people in their group even if they're an odd number of people and one is just waiting or watching....the group mentality is strong in Japan

This happens to me sometimes in the super-nice club in Broward, complicated by the fact that I am too stupid to learn Spanish and many players there much prefer it. But I can count from uno to once, and if I go often enough people sort of become familiar with me simply from seeing me that many times even if we never speak. I have talked to a couple people who went once or twice for open play and felt shut out and never went back except for tournaments. That's a shame for them and the club too. It's a big place, 19 tables, so it isn't obvious when one person isn't getting to play. But I'm pretty sure if they went 5 or 10 times the ice would break at some point. Like life, 90% of getting good practice matches at the club is just showing up.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@NL
The problem is there aren't any amateur clubs here. We all play in a public facility open to anyone. Groups of people from all Tokyo and beyond come here, even if they don't play in our local league. There is no membership, no club president or secretary. You just pay the entrance fee to the facility, the swimming pool or the gym or badminton or anything else is included...

The only thing is that Tuesday is for local league members only but there are perhaps 24 or more different teams in the league... It's not a club.

Apart from High School and University clubs, the closest thing to a club I've seen is Table tennis schools where there are group lessons or one to one coaching and sometimes 'students' go together in an open tournament with the coach.

@ brs

and it because its not a club here, of course there are some regulars , but you see a lot of groups who come only very occasionally. Also, even for regulars, they would come only say on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Which means if I'm a Tuesday + Thursday regular but for some reason i'm free on a Saturday, then I know much less the guys coming on Saturdays and i'm much less likely to find a partner if i jump in.

 

[NextLevel]

@NL
The problem is there aren't any amateur clubs here. We all play in a public facility open to anyone. Groups of people from all Tokyo and beyond come here, even if they don't play in our local league. There is no membership, no club president or secretary. You just pay the entrance fee to the facility, the swimming pool or the gym or badminton or anything else is included...

The only thing is that Tuesday is for local league members only but there are perhaps 24 or more different teams in the league... It's not a club.

Apart from High School and University clubs, the closest thing to a club I've seen is Table tennis schools where there are group lessons or one to one coaching and sometimes 'students' go together in an open tournament with the coach.

@ brs

and it because its not a club here, of course there are some regulars , but you see a lot of groups who come only very occasionally. Also, even for regulars, they would come only say on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Which means if I'm a Tuesday + Thursday regular but for some reason i'm free on a Saturday, then I know much less the guys coming on Saturdays and i'm much less likely to find a partner if i jump in.

There is probably an opportunity to create a club around the public facilities. In fact the public facilities are a great thing. The problem in the US is not the existence of amateurs, it is finding good places to play because the rent is too expensive to support good clubs in the cities given the kind of amounts table tennis players are willing to pay. Most clubs in the US have at least one wealthy benefactor who loves the sport or a historically famous player(s) (to bring in the Chinese parents who want him/her to coach their kids) if they are full time. Public facilities open on very specific days for table tennis if they support it at all and in a shared room for many (more popular) activities. But if you have dedicated space, all you have to do is get people to come to it.

Harder than I am making out but you get my drift. In this internet age, more things are possible. Meetups are all over the place.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

CONGRATULATIONS SUDS!!

Nice video editing and highlights!

Despite you wanting to RPB more, you got a solid TPB punch!!

Gratz again!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Public facilities open on very specific days for table tennis if they support it at all and in a shared room for many (more popular) activities.

My regular club is a NYC Department of Parks recreation center. If you watch many of my videos, you will see people walking around or hear weights smashing on the ground. TT tables share the floor with Olympic weightlifters as well as the weight room with machines... also treadmills and stationary bikes.

Club closes on public holidays or have limited hours on some of the lesser holidays. Fridays is TT for teens only. Sundays are always closed.

With all the distractions of people going to the treadmills, weight rooms, Oly lifters dropping the weights, i cannot complain as it is only $100 a year for membership. For seniors it's $25/year, that's why my "club" has so many seniors who play TT.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

So i tried lengthening my arm at the point of contact and give my body a tad more distance from the ball. Well what do you know, the spin and power generated was much greater. ... Should i go back to the wider big swing with full extension?

The 1980's are calling!!!!!!! Come on old man, let's go back to when we were kids!! Long stroke loops please!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSP using the old man's trick - play the opponent until you wear him out and he loses because he is tired of playing and playing you. LOL

lolol

yeah for now, i cannot beat him ... we both laugh at our play and have fun ... he under-the-table-sidespin lobs and my muscle memory rushes the smashes and lose the point

generally during practice/warmup my partners have a sense of my TT level, but when we play a match i generally lose LOLOL after the match is over i laugh with my partners at my lack of match play.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Back in the day, when 42andbackpains and I played regularly, we had a group we hung out with and played. Basic human nature with the tribal sense. Although we played others outside of our group/tribe/gang, when we played it was also part of the camaderie and fun we had. As young teens, there was the trash talking and bragging rights ... all part of the fun of playing and hanging out.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Thank you Der! Loads to work on lol

Consider a little more knee bend, a little more hip turn, and some more shoulder turn backwards. This will get you to swing the shoulders a good chunk before you impact the ball. That actually allows one to impart maximum force on the ball. When you do that, most of the hip and shoulder turn to hit the ball has already happened, so you got only the lower arm and some upper arm drag forward to salute after the impact. That is not a lot of force to slow down and reset (your arm) Trying to slow down a lot of shoulders and waist uncoil along with that arm is a load to handle. The little extra prep lets reset happen easier and makes the stroke overall compact.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

A little slow at work today. Been thinking of my game, er, I mean lack of game

Rewatching part of NL's lesson

The coach is a lady lefty penholder who was 2600 USATT around her peak. The way she coaches me and just about everything she tells me to do is 100% against how I think about the sport. She gives very specific technical instructions while I am more Zen and general in my TT approach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SpEUsk6Dy4

It's just funny what she is trying to get me to do vs what my past coaches/philosophies have been:

1. She want me to serve fast pure sidespin both long and short to the opponent and sit on the return based on the sidespin I have served (pendulum, expect return to backhand, reverse/backhand, expect return to forehand). She wants me to loop the return off the bounce as much as possible.

If you know me, I serve backspin and no spin almost all the time, and I almost always serve short. So this is a radical change.

2. She wants me to almost never serve or push to the middle of the table, with all serves and pushes towards the corners or the sidelines.

Again, this is something I almost never do.

Will start off by saying wins and losses are inconsequential to me, especially since I don't play tournaments. Most members of my club have an idea of my level from practice and they also know I can't win matches LOL

I have been rethinking my strategy and tactics. I re-read Points 1 and 2 above and thinking maybe my losses are not so much me not being used to the current setup (although I've still haven't gotten totatlly used to the fast blade and tensor rubbers), but due to my integration of the 'modern' way of pushing to the middle as NL mentions in point 2 above and less the way NL's coach advises.

Additionally I've tried to integrate more downspin only and nospin serves with varying success. As an old player who only knew how to serve FH pendulum sidetop/sidedown, serving nospin and pure downspin was a huge challenge.

Again wins and losses doesn't matter ... not going to lie, i would be happier if i won some more than lost, but then again, i'm playing partners about my level or higher. And more importantly for me is figuring out why I'm losing. Prior I've been attributing it to my setup, but after mulling it over and rewatching/rereading NL's above posts, the proverbial lightbulb lit up! I am losing mostly because I'm implementing different tactics. If i won currently, it would be evidence for me that I've improved.

So, I am trying to improve and instead of sticking to my old game of being predominately a side/sidetop server and 3rd ball smasher, I'm losing not due to setup. For whatever reason, this makes logical sense and I am a happy fool!

I'm starting to ramble and my apologies to all.

~osph

 

[42andbackpains]

The 1980's are calling!!!!!!! Come on old man, let's go back to when we were kids!! Long stroke loops please!

Longer wider strokes does not mean different timing of contacting the ball. I still contact the ball with the same timing, just the swing is bigger. OSP, you are trying to contact the ball earlier but you can still retain a bigger swing. Its just easier to make contact with a smaller swing. And the 80s will never come back, ok you can bring back Alphaville...lol . (Alphaville... I want to live forever)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TcDHrkQYg

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Longer wider strokes does not mean different timing of contacting the ball. I still contact the ball with the same timing, just the swing is bigger. OSP, you are trying to contact the ball earlier but you can still retain a bigger swing. Its just easier to make contact with a smaller swing. And the 80s will never come back, ok you can bring back Alphaville...lol . (Alphaville... I want to live forever)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TcDHrkQYg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE of the 1980's