Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

Couldn't find anyone to play with me today due to public holiday, so I practiced at home.

I don't feel very natural playing my forehand without brushing the ball upwards, so I am trying to work on a more solid contact. In the first video, I am trying to do more solid contact, but despite the balls landing on the table, some hit the top of the net, which makes me feel unsafe. Might eventually find a coach to work on the forehand.


1. Forehand / Backhand

2. Short push then open loop backspin

Feedback / comment welcome.

 

[Lula]

@Lula

nice to see you in a video !
how old are you now ?

I will not comment much on the video apart that you seem to be too much excited to make a movie. LOL

I think your BH is very nice to watch. I don't think You're playing it the way I'm being taught now [a lot of wrist and the tip of the racket is in front of you at the finish] but it reminds me the video of William Henzell and I think its quite effective.

I think i am trying to do as you say. I am trying to use mostly wrist because i am so close to the table. I can play much harder a bit further away but then i can not smash forehand, so need to stay closer to the table. I have tried to develope my backhand alot on my own the last years and it is much better today. I think i need to do the motion much more forward, and less upward and try to stop the stroke earlier. If i do that, i will get power and good pace without really trying to get it. In the video i try to do the stroke as slow as possible so i do it correct, but i still think the ball have pretty good quality. So if i try to accelerate faster with the wrist i can get much more power and pace. But if i do the stroke to long and to much upward it do not matter if i accelerate fast. More important to do the stroke correct to get power and speed than to accelerate fast with the wrist/forearm.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Here's a question about tactics. I trained with one of my regular training partners and she pretty much butchered me. This is how the point typically went:
1) She serves light back spin
2) I return using LP
3) She loops with a crazy amount of side spin into my very wide FH (it doesn't matter if I return it to the FH, mid or BH as she's capable of stepping around)
4) I manage to return a loop with a loop which now is seriously loaded with spin
5) She chop blocks it with her BH anti and it bounces 3-4 times on the table or goes to my BH extreme

I could obviously try to twiddle and BH flip her serve but that's a fairly high risk shot. What to do? Try to stay at the table and block her loop?

 

[Lula]

Almost close to impossible to get very much sidespin from the middle or bh with the fh to your fh.

Would also say that it is close ro impossible for her to always use the forehand if you play the ball to the corners.

So find the situation unlikely.

Try to change something. Can not Do the same thing if you lose. Maybe you can return with fh or play short with your bh.

 

[ttmonster]

try to make the high risk shot a few times to have it as an option .. then she will have to hesitate about #3 and will reduce the quality of her attacks ... which you should be able to counter better ...

btw, I don't find any reason to not attack light backspin serve once you have read it with your non LP side ... even with LP you should be able to flip it with good quality ... flip as in an aggressive push which actually results in a flip because of the resulting top spin .. no ?

Here's a question about tactics. I trained with one of my regular training partners and she pretty much butchered me. This is how the point typically went:
1) She serves light back spin
2) I return using LP
3) She loops with a crazy amount of side spin into my very wide FH (it doesn't matter if I return it to the FH, mid or BH as she's capable of stepping around)
4) I manage to return a loop with a loop which now is seriously loaded with spin
5) She chop blocks it with her BH anti and it bounces 3-4 times on the table or goes to my BH extreme

I could obviously try to twiddle and BH flip her serve but that's a fairly high risk shot. What to do? Try to stay at the table and block her loop?

 

[Der_Echte]

She may be attacking like that because she is too good, or you are making it too easy or predictable for her.

Even if you are going to give a non-attack as a return, vary what you do with it. go deep in opposite directions, try to go 1/2 long and soft, try to drop short, should be much easier with LP and a loose grip. Use inverted and dig into it and go for an angle or body.

Take ball off bounce and do something with it. If you keep giving her predictable LP return, a good attacker will only get more spinny, powerful, and consistent. Change it up and shake it up big time, even if all you are doing is pushing.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I think you can make heavy spin with a very short stroke if the "whip" is right. I get very good spin on my serves and do not have a very long stroke at all.

However, I have be lovingly or not-so-luvingly been assigned the name of High Toss Servy Bastardo for some yet to be determined reason.

I believe a higher toss allows easier ball penetration into the topsheet to go along with your whip to make heavy spion on a really short stroke.

I have seen players with strokes longer than SUVs on serves, and some have heavy serves too. I believe it is the ability to time and whip the ball, simply that.

https://vimeo.com/185625499


An old video of Der kicking my butt. look at Der's high toss serves. One of my weaknesses, i can't read serves. After the match, he told me he served one topspin, one downspin, all throughout the match.

This was an eternity ago for me! Oct 2016 - it was about a year after I got back into TT after a 32 yrs break. I was still a little rusty.

Oldschool penholder, no backhand, only TBH block and punch. SmashFan helping us keep score. I didn't like the small Korean club, many times when I pivoted for 3rd ball attack, was scared I run into SmashFan LOL

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Forehand practice.
Trying to work on my footwork to get my body moving.

Si-hing,

Looking good, i like your relaxed fh loop stroke! As you know, I'm no coach, so I feel I can't comment on your form, especially since my fh looping form is not good.

But baby steps, pun intended! You are starting to move, keep at it. During gameplay, it will manifest soon enough. Since the winter, I've sadly gained 10 lbs somehow! Feeling slow and sluggish as well as left knee acting up once in awhile.

In the past though, I've found the jumprope helped me somewhat to be lighter on my feet. Not sure if that would help your footwork. Also I visualize Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee (especially in Way of the Dragon/Return of the Dragon in his fight vs Chuck Norris) bouncing around on their feet, very light, or as Ali would say, float like a butterfly. As it's table tennis we are speaking of, I've not really looked at TT players' footwork to visualize though for whatever reason.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess that I simply will keep on working on my returns. I find it hard to return this type of serve low and short with the LP.

Yes, she's a bit too advanced for my level so it's currently not realistic to beat her (she's fairly evenly matched with guys with a Swedish ranking of 1600-1800) but it would be nice to avoid loosing 3-4 points per game to this tactic. Her footwork is amazing even though she's quite old (50+).

 

[mart1nandersson]

In the past though, I've found the jumprope helped me somewhat to be lighter on my feet. Not sure if that would help your footwork. Also I visualize Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee (especially in Way of the Dragon/Return of the Dragon in his fight vs Chuck Norris) bouncing around on their feet, very light, or as Ali would say, float like a butterfly. As it's table tennis we are speaking of, I've not really looked at TT players' footwork to visualize though for whatever reason.

Using a skipping rope seem to a very common thing among TT players. I see quite a few players using it as warm up during tournaments. I've been planning on getting one myself but I keep forgetting to buy one

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Si-hing,

I don't feel very natural playing my forehand without brushing the ball upwards, so I am trying to work on a more solid contact. In the first video, I am trying to do more solid contact, but despite the balls landing on the table, some hit the top of the net, which makes me feel unsafe. Might eventually find a coach to work on the forehand.

1. Forehand / Backhand

If I am understanding you correctly, you are not trying to add spin to the ball with your FH. You are trying to "do more solid contact" but you keep 'brushing' the ball which imparts spin. You basically want to 'flat hit' with your FH. Is this correct?

If so, I may be able to help despite being a beginner to intermediate player and not a coach. So take this reply from that perspective.

IMO I have a decent flat hit FH. It's way better than my FH loop. My FH flat hit is probably my best stroke. In this day and age of the Internet and YouTube, I actually don't watch the multitude of instructionals. However, as a kid back in late 1970's and early 1980's, my sifu was Alex Tam. He was a 2-winged short pips TBH PH. Back then, all PH were single-sided. I believe it was either Liu Guo-liang's coach(es) or LGL himself who came up with the RPB in mid or late 1990's. He started me off with short pips. I don't recall how long I played SP and I don't recall how many lessons I had with him. It was not that many though. However, after I got the basics, he had me work with one of his students whom I addressed as dai si-hing.

Many players from the 1980's-early 2000's, if they played in Chinatown, will know my dai si-hing, Richard Ling. IIRC, Carl has been coached by him for a bit. Tam sifu was probably mid-1970's USTTA ~2400-2500, although he started smoking and his game suffered.

Both sifu and dai si-hing taught me to 'sow' (sweep, like with a broom). The upper arm doesn't move much. The wrist is locked/rigid. Only the forearm moves. It's like a salute the military does. I've seen some righty FH end near right temple. I've seen some end at the 'third eye' (in between both eyes) - this covers the right eye somewhat though. I've also seen the stroke end past the left eye a little. This also covers a little of one's vision. My current stroke seems to end about my left eye.

Some key points to keep in mind:

1. Follow-through.

No half-hearted hits. You will know if you make solid contact when you hear the 'pock' of the ball after the FH flat hit. This past year I have been following-through better. The 2 or 3 yrs before I had a 'half-stroke' and didn't follow through completely. My FH is much better now with the full follow-through.

2. When/Where to start to hit the ball.

After a 32 yrs break from the game, I don't recall exactly what they taught as to when to hit the ball. I just know when I started playing again after the long break, my stroke started by my side, sometimes a little further back, but not so far back like I'm going to FH loop.

I have a friend who coaches. He worked with me a few times and commented that my FH stroke was from the 1980's. The current FH stroke is to meet the ball earlier. So the arm should be in front of the body. I am slowly adjusting my stroke to meet the ball earlier. But sometimes the muscle memory from when I was a kid kicks in and I am hitting the ball too late. I see it in my videos and I feel it after a hit too.

3. Add a slight waist twist.

With the waist twist, you get extra power from your core. It is not just an arm swing. But seeing you loop, you understand this already.

During gameplay, because my footwork is bad, sometimes I end up only arm swinging.

4. Wrist doesn't move.

If wrist moves, spin will be imparted. Lock your wrist. Think of sweeping a broom. Think of the whole forearm stroking. Your racket is part of your arm. It is not separate from your arm. It is one unit. Move the forearm.

------

I will post video of my FH loop practice in my next post. I start with some flat hits and then start looping. I have better FH flat hits when i'm strictly flat hitting and not flat hit a few times and start looping.

I truly hope i was clear and HTH!

~si-dai

p.s. nice RPB BH! my RPB BH is a flat hit. I do not brush the ball and turn my wrist. I will start adding the type of RPB with a short brushing motion next.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I was practicing with one of the coaches at my club. We sometimes hit, but he is not officially 'my coach' ... just hitting partners. He usually practices his FH loops with me as I can FH block/short stroke it back to him somewhat consistently. He then will stand on his FH side and TPB block for me.

We had been hitting for 10 mins already, before he started blocking for me. After 5 mins of my FH looping, my friend finished his game and I asked him to video. Only 2 mins video. I am not a looper. I am a smasher. I have all kinds of wrong in my FH loop during practice. I am slowly trying to adjust. However, for the past year I neglected my FH loop in favor of working on my RPB. Up until about 2 months ago, I had zero confidence in my FH loop and it was evident in my games as well as practice. Luckily, my 1980's FH sidespin loop with the long backswing is back. In time I will shorten my stroke and train engaging my legs properly as well as my core. I feel I am mostly looping with my arm. Only 2 mins of video. I didn't want the lady in blue and red top to wait too long. She is also a coach. She taught another member who went on to be city champ in Guangdong. He's at least 2300 USATT probably.

In the future, hope to video some matches if my friends are available. Don't want to stick my phone in a locker like my last posted video because it's not the best angle/view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC0pNslEkjs

 

[yoass]

1) She serves light back spin
2) I return using LP

The better players I train with that use LP can make mince meat of light backspin serves, attacking them with their LP and producing tight, whirling hard to counter/block/counterspin attacks. The best of them manage to place these LP attacks awkwardly: counter to my anticipation, deep into my crossover point, or with an extreme angle.

Your opponent has anti. I've found that to be usually exploitable, as long as you're not "feeding the monster". And it just so happens that the whirling floaters you get when attacking with LP are very hard to get a good shot with using anti. With little to work with, anti leaves few options.

The only viable option left, in my experience, if you go flat and deep into the anti (even without the wobble introduced with an LP swipe or lift attack upon light backspin), for an anti player is to change pace drastically, drop a short dead ball. If you stay close to the table and are keen to that, even these shots give you plenty to work with. You get good placement options, and if your abilities allow it ample options in flicking, spinning over the table, or even flatly kill it if it pops up just a little bit.

 

[JeffM]

Hi OSP, thank you for your feedback and your suggestion!
Yes I am trying to 'flat hit' more to add more variety to my game.
I will try your suggestions.

p.s. nice loops in your video!
p.s. p.s. perhaps consider getting a tripod for videoing yourself, then you can choose when and how long to record without having to rely on your friend holding your phone.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hi OSP, thank you for your feedback and your suggestion!
Yes I am trying to 'flat hit' more to add more variety to my game.
I will try your suggestions.

p.s. nice loops in your video!
p.s. p.s. perhaps consider getting a tripod for videoing yourself, then you can choose when and how long to record without having to rely on your friend holding your phone.

Would love to use a tripod and although each table is spacious, there are too many people walking around. My club is NOT a TT club. It's a New York City Dept of Parks Recreation Center. What that means is that basement shares space with the Olympic Weight lifters, as well as members who use the weight machines, stationary bicycles, treadmills, etc. Members walk to the lockers to put their stuff in, drink water, or go to the bathroom.

With that said, I have a small magnetic tripod but no metal around for good angle.

Next week, will see if I can get video of just my FH... that may help you.

 

[JeffM]

Would love to use a tripod and although each table is spacious, there are too many people walking around. My club is NOT a TT club. It's a New York City Dept of Parks Recreation Center. What that means is that basement shares space with the Olympic Weight lifters, as well as members who use the weight machines, stationary bicycles, treadmills, etc. Members walk to the lockers to put their stuff in, drink water, or go to the bathroom.

With that said, I have a small magnetic tripod but no metal around for good angle.

Next week, will see if I can get video of just my FH... that may help you.

I see. Is the concern of videoing others who may walk into the camera view?
I think if you use a tripod, you could place it where the person holding your phone was, and just turn it off when you don't want it to record. I don't know the specifics of the law, but people generally walk around it if they don't want to be filmed.

Thanks Si Hing!

 

[ttmonster]

Jumprope does wonders for your footwork ... not just an exercise .. but as an warm up tool as well .. however don't overdo it because if the floor is not soft you can get knee issues

Si-hing,

Looking good, i like your relaxed fh loop stroke! As you know, I'm no coach, so I feel I can't comment on your form, especially since my fh looping form is not good.

But baby steps, pun intended! You are starting to move, keep at it. During gameplay, it will manifest soon enough. Since the winter, I've sadly gained 10 lbs somehow! Feeling slow and sluggish as well as left knee acting up once in awhile.

In the past though, I've found the jumprope helped me somewhat to be lighter on my feet. Not sure if that would help your footwork. Also I visualize Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee (especially in Way of the Dragon/Return of the Dragon in his fight vs Chuck Norris) bouncing around on their feet, very light, or as Ali would say, float like a butterfly. As it's table tennis we are speaking of, I've not really looked at TT players' footwork to visualize though for whatever reason.

 

[Lula]

Still trying to film stuff. I proably seems a bit angry in the video. It is because i think i miss to much and more importantly cheating, i am moving before i see where the ball is coming. If i do that i am ****ed. It was that i argued about in the video. It become better from the middle of the video when i really tried to almost move to late, when i was really sure where the ball was going. But when i focus so much on that i forget to attack easier loops, move the legs and sometimes the block became to high. So it is difficult to find something good inbetween. Need to work more on this. If i focus to much on just moving the arm when i see where the ball is coming i sometimes is a bit passive and block to high and get a to hard loop or a loop with to much angle so it do not matter if i first see where it comes and then move because the loop is just to strong because of my bad block before.

I also think that i still push forward my elbow to much when playing forehand. Can use the forearm more. And when i want to attack myself i always do to much, it is not necessary when it already is spin and power in the ball. It is better that i just do a little so i hit the table everytime and then when he play a even worse ball i can attack harder. Also need to go more forward on the backhand when i want to attack myself, when i go to much up the ball goes out.

The kids in the background are some of the kids i train two times a week. You also see the chinese coach there.

 

[Der_Echte]

Up and down in my doubles practice today. Still, got the job done enough. Many concerns about my recognition of the ball. Played full out without ripping anything up. Here's to hope I don't sneeze 10x an hour, that will rip open the injury again. Sneezes are seriously powerful events.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

today we had a team tournament. I had a lot of fun and played at a good level, much better than my last tournament which was quite disappointing. In terms of results itself, its not positive because i lost my only singles match, and won only 1 doubles out of 3, but all opponents were good, and matches went to the decider and I had match point in all of them if my memory is correct...There were a lot of exciting points and rallies, cheering and tchooing, it was really nice. something like 150 teams were hear today ! never have i seen so many people come here.

Teamwise we finished first of our group of 3 in the morning (to game average), and were immediately knocked out in the KO tournament where all teams who finished 1st advanced.