Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

Used Google Translate lol ... oldschool PH has similar saying, roughly translates to:

Left punch, right attack.

Si Hing, I am surprised you need translator for the phrase. Is it because it is in simplified Chinese? Or is it that you are comfortable with speaking but not fluent in writing?

 

[blahness]

反手制造机会·正手抢攻拿分数

Those who understand, just smile ☺️

Haha I disagree - the BH should be a killer by itself Better to loopkill on both wings than just one lol

 

[JeffM]

I just booked accommodation for a competition that will be in July! Excited for it as it will be one of the proper ones, with ranking and proper categories etc, but also feeling bit thin in my wallet after the booking.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

l

Haha I disagree - the BH should be a killer by itself Better to loopkill on both wings than just one lol

LOL! You wanna be Saitama of ( ワンパンマン / One Punch Man ). Cool man, cool!

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Wow! Carl understand my local lingua-franca. Way to go Carl! Woo Hoo!!!

Anyway, this 反手 製造 機會• 正 手 搶攻 攞 分數 concept I knew a while back as theory. It is only very recently I am able to employ during match play regularly.

BTW, my FH is still very much flat. Actually not flat as in flat flat but more of a drive flatish kind of thingy. Don't know why but during stroking I can do loopy but in match play it all comes up duraibo'ish.

Sigh! Ces't la vie.. life goes on.

As for this flat hitting thingy; when GM mention he heard from a local coach that you don't need loop until you reach 2,000 has really pique my interest. Maybe there is a salvation for the likes of me...

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

As for this flat hitting thingy; when GM mention he heard from a local coach that you don't need loop until you reach 2,000 has really pique my interest. Maybe there is a salvation for the likes of me...

Looking at these two pretty good South Korean players, they don't even really "loop" all that much on fh, only to attack a backspin ball, and they essentially don't loop at all on bh:

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Looking at these two pretty good South Korean players, they don't even really "loop" all that much on fh, only to attack a backspin ball, and they essentially don't loop at all on bh:

The player with the shakehand did not utilise the greatest weapon a shakehand can offer: BH loop / topspin. He is playing as though he is using a penhold

 

[blahness]

Looking at these two pretty good South Korean players, they don't even really "loop" all that much on fh, only to attack a backspin ball, and they essentially don't loop at all on bh:

They both have very powerful FH loops with lots of spin, though they do tend to direct it forward rather than going for the spinny open ups. The BH countering is also very good.

 

[Der_Echte]

You lead the Goon Squad by example! You are still training for a future Goon Squad Mission!!

I just got dun with TWO Goon Squad missions to San Fran and LA.

Just got back from the 7 hr drive (all three drove) and it is 4 AM. Good night or morning, depending on where you are on this planet.

 

[NextLevel]

On the ideas that your backhand should be a shield and you can get to 2000 as a hitter: both ideas in their stated form are a relic of the era where forehand and footwork dominated the game at almost every level. In fact one could loop with short pips with the 38mm ball. But just having a decent backhand despite the fact my forehand sucked enabled me to beat a lot of players on my way to USATT 2000. While I have a decent forehand topspin now, I built it later and my footwork for it is still situational patchwork since my knees and tendons have no real support. Backhand looping as a standard thing is relatively new, for a long time it was considered something that only advanced players should learn. This has changed completely and in fact, many older players who don't backhand loop are susceptible to players who do just because they lack the loop.

From personal experience, anyone who is focused mostly on hitting will still need go learn to loop vs backspin at some point. And unless you have really strong serves and serve return with sidespin to get popups, the footwork demands are more as getting a ball to smash/drive is much harder than getting a ball to spin as you get better. But you can try it, my coach left me to try it for a while, after losing badly to players who just chopped the ball, and beating them months later when I started spinning on my backhand , I came back into the fold completely.

 

[NextLevel]

Looking at these two pretty good South Korean players, they don't even really "loop" all that much on fh, only to attack a backspin ball, and they essentially don't loop at all on bh:

Thata their training, one is traditional penholder and the other doesnt banana flip. But it does expose their game to a certain kind of weakness against a certain kind of player. Against lefties, if you can give them the first forehand wide and them block it back to the backhand, they tend to fall apart. Obviously you need to be at a level to control the attack but this is how many lefties play righties as well. If you have a backhand topspin, you don't need to pivot to get the opener all the time and you can be in place to make the next block more easily with the forehand or backhand.

That said, they both move around pretty well, which is one of the biggest requirements for high level play. That can fix a lot of problems once you have a reasonable.stroke.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Thata their training, one is traditional penholder and the other doesnt banana flip. But it does expose their game to a certain kind of weakness against a certain kind of player. Against lefties, if you can give them the first forehand wide and them block it back to the backhand, they tend to fall apart. Obviously you need to be at a level to control the attack but this is how many lefties play righties as well. If you have a backhand topspin, you don't need to pivot to get the opener all the time and you can be in place to make the next block more easily with the forehand or backhand.

That said, they both move around pretty well, which is one of the biggest requirements for high level play. That can fix a lot of problems once you have a reasonable.stroke.

NL,
You really know you stuff and this is exactly those lefties I faced bully me, using this exact method / tactic. I lost to a pen-hold lefties in a previous tourney and it was so darn frustrating as I have no effective counter to his tactic.
In my club there is another two lefties and they use this exact method to neutralize me. I do not have such problem playing against another righty.

 

[NextLevel]

NL,
You really know you stuff and this is exactly those lefties I faced bully me, using this exact method / tactic. I lost to a pen-hold lefties in a previous tourney and it was so darn frustrating as I have no effective counter to his tactic.
In my club there is another two lefties and they use this exact method to neutralize me. I do not have such problem playing against another righty.

You have to go to their forehand first (if you have a hooking backhand, lefties will fear you as much as you fear them) and if you go to their backhand you need to watch out for the wide forehand and put a spin on the ball that gives you time (usually backspin). The problem is that they play righties much more than you play lefties so you won't get a lot of practice. So you need to appreciate the lefties in your club, they are as valuable an asset as higher level players and pips players for your practice time. But the ones that have good pendulum serves frustrate me too as they force me to the wide forehand and if I don't get the loop right, if I am forced to push, I almost always lose the point.

 

[blahness]

You have to go to their forehand first (if you have a hooking backhand, lefties will fear you as much as you fear them) and if you go to their backhand you need to watch out for the wide forehand and put a spin on the ball that gives you time (usually backspin). The problem is that they play righties much more than you play lefties so you won't get a lot of practice. So you need to appreciate the lefties in your club, they are as valuable an asset as higher level players and pips players for your practice time. But the ones that have good pendulum serves frustrate me too as they force me to the wide forehand and if I don't get the loop right, if I am forced to push, I almost always lose the point.

Righties can also play using the exact same pattern by serving reverse pendulum/hook/tomahawk/BH pendulum to the wide FH and then going wide BH after your receive/loop.

It's quite the nasty pattern imo. I usually only win against this by doing a FH opening loop loaded with huge spin and placed well so that they cannot block with quality. The other way I win against this is with the FH sideswipe or windshield wiper receive instead of looping - this gives them a fast ish weird spin ball which normally ppl struggle to attack. Pushing usually lands me in trouble imo

Now that I learnt about the recovery reset, there's an opportunity to FH loop, recover back to middle and then if they block back to my BH successfully I go crosscourt fast with my BH loop. Without the reset it's really difficult to play this BH loop with quality.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Last couple of weeks I have managed to beat several higher level players. How is this possible? To my own analysis they are due to these factors:

1. Unlocked SKILL: PIVOT: Pivot is the ability of the player to turn the body at BH corner to play a FH drive instead of the usual BH drive / block.
2. Skill FOOTWORK +1: better forward and reverse leg movement to deal with alternate soft / short inside and out-of-table ball.
3. Unlocked SKILL: FOREHAND FLICK: Short underspin ball served to far FH side no longer bothers this player anymore.

It is due to these three skill upgrade this player is able to defeat higher levels players.

 

[JeffM]

Last couple of weeks I have managed to beat several higher level players. How is this possible? To my own analysis they are due to these factors:

1. Unlocked SKILL: PIVOT: Pivot is the ability of the player to turn the body at BH corner to play a FH drive instead of the usual BH drive / block.
2. Skill FOOTWORK +1: better forward and reverse leg movement to deal with alternate soft / short inside and out-of-table ball.
3. Unlocked SKILL: FOREHAND FLICK: Short underspin ball served to far FH side no longer bothers this player anymore.

It is due to these three skill upgrade this player is able to defeat higher levels players.

The way you phrased those factors sounds like you are leveling up fast, like in a computer game.
Pivot level -> +1
Footwork level -> +1
Forehand flick level -> +1

Overall level -> +1

 

[Gozo Aruna]

The way you phrased those factors sounds like you are leveling up fast, like in a computer game.
Pivot level -> +1
Footwork level -> +1
Forehand flick level -> +1

Overall level -> +1

D&D fan

 

[JeffM]

D&D fan

Diablo IV now.

 

[NextLevel]

Righties can also play using the exact same pattern by serving reverse pendulum/hook/tomahawk/BH pendulum to the wide FH and then going wide BH after your receive/loop.

It's quite the nasty pattern imo. I usually only win against this by doing a FH opening loop loaded with huge spin and placed well so that they cannot block with quality. The other way I win against this is with the FH sideswipe or windshield wiper receive instead of looping - this gives them a fast ish weird spin ball which normally ppl struggle to attack. Pushing usually lands me in trouble imo

Now that I learnt about the recovery reset, there's an opportunity to FH loop, recover back to middle and then if they block back to my BH successfully I go crosscourt fast with my BH loop. Without the reset it's really difficult to play this BH loop with quality.

Recovery resets are usually necessary only if

1) you habitually finish your stroke in positions that leave you unable to play the next ball.
2) you don't practice sequencing your shots by finishing in positions you can quickly transition out of by jumping into the ready position for the next shot (as opposed to resetting to prepare for the next shot).

If you habitually jump into the backswing (which is arguably a reset, but isn't quite the same thing because it is not a separate move from stroke preparation), then these recovery resets are not as big a deal or a thing as people make out and can actually make your game slower. Connecting moves with actual practical drills is usually more rewarding.

 

[blahness]

Recovery resets are usually necessary only if

1) you habitually finish your stroke in positions that leave you unable to play the next ball.
2) you don't practice sequencing your shots by finishing in positions you can quickly transition out of by jumping into the ready position for the next shot (as opposed to resetting to prepare for the next shot).

If you habitually jump into the backswing (which is arguably a reset, but isn't quite the same thing because it is not a separate move from stroke preparation), then these recovery resets are not as big a deal or a thing as people make out and can actually make your game slower. Connecting moves with actual practical drills is usually more rewarding.

The problem with jumping straight into a backswing for the next ball is that against skilled players, they will have a look at your backswing and will give you a ball that's incompatible with the next shot.

For eg if you got to a FH backswing but the ball comes to the BH, or getting to a BH backswing but ball comes to the FH. Worse, there's also long/short variations (especially against combination pips players), and nasty feints.

The benefit of the recovery reset is so that you're ready for all incoming shots instead of anticipating the next shot.

But there is a school of thought that you simply force the opponent to give you a ball that's compatible with your next backswing (via your shot quality) and do a weaker shot (for eg a block etc) if it is outside your preparation. This would then be more about playing the percentages.