Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

This was going to be a tough weekend with family still around and work and school stuff to do on the weekend. So I asked my friend who goes to his church on Saturday mornings to play whether he would be going this Saturday. So 730am table tennis it was. We played for 2 hours, then I had to go take my kids to swimming.

I can do the reverse serve with the grip change but I need to practice third ball.because I am slow with the grip reversal to regular shakehand. I gave my practice partner some forehand and backhand tips then we started playing matches. I wanted to blank him out but lost a game after winning the first nine... grrr....

Then I started trying my own game where I would play everything to the bgg guys forehand. He never caught on and I was up 2‐0 then lost a game and then told him midway into the 4th game since he wasn't catching on. We spit thr last two games 1-1 on this mode before I had to leave. I will probably play some variant if this half table game against lower rated opponents going forward just for practice.

BTW this was a guy who used to beat me a lot when I returned to regular play in November last year. It fors take time for your game to come back after a long break...

 

[Der_Echte]

Sergey has a 5 yr break and it took him a while to establish 2100-2200 level... he played 1700ish when he first came back.

 

[Der_Echte]

The remaining one adult I actively coach used to be a reserve youth natl player, but that was in the EIGHTIES... and TT is pretty much an entirely different sport now... He started 1200 California and last weekend had a win vs a 2200 lobber/retriever with all the stars lining up just right. he is prolly 1500+ Cali level right now, next year he will exceed my current rating I think.

 

[IB66]

Tourney yesterday was disappointing to say the least!! played 6, won 1, lost 5.
During knock-up was playing OK, felt ready to go.
1st match was against a player with pips on his BH, I played like a beginner!!! mentally my head wasn't with it!! Didn't play to my strengths, found it real hard to concentrate, didn't put the training into practice, which really p****d me off more than losing!!!
This set the tone for the whole day!!
Slipped back into Rambo mode - too many risky shots at the wrong time!! again this is against want I've been training!!!
Lost 3-1 to 3 inverted players & won 3-0 against the 4th, I had played 2 of them previously at the last tourney in Bristol. lost v one 3-2, and won v the other 3-2. so close matches, but this time the lack of concentration and Mr Angry kickin in didn't help!!!
Last match was against a player with SP & LP, by this time, my mental attitude was at it's worst!!! Just wanted to go home (3 1/2 hour drive in pouring rain to look forward to!!!)

But, there are positives - Even though overall I didn't play well, there were spells when for one game I totally dominated, winning the game easily. Knees!!! first time foe 17 months that my knees felt OK at the end of the days play, and this morning, no signs of tightness, pain etc.

Whether it was the early 04.30 get up, drive to the venue (in good conditions, but still 2hr + drive) that contributed to the poor mental attitude, I'm not sure!!!
Sometimes you just get up with the attitude of a Grizzly Bear who's been woken up out of hibernation early, and had their stash of honey stolen !!!

 

[Wrighty67]

Tourney yesterday was disappointing to say the least!! played 6, won 1, lost 5.
During knock-up was playing OK, felt ready to go.
1st match was against a player with pips on his BH, I played like a beginner!!! mentally my head wasn't with it!! Didn't play to my strengths, found it real hard to concentrate, didn't put the training into practice, which really p****d me off more than losing!!!
This set the tone for the whole day!!
Slipped back into Rambo mode - too many risky shots at the wrong time!! again this is against want I've been training!!!
Lost 3-1 to 3 inverted players & won 3-0 against the 4th, I had played 2 of them previously at the last tourney in Bristol. lost v one 3-2, and won v the other 3-2. so close matches, but this time the lack of concentration and Mr Angry kickin in didn't help!!!
Last match was against a player with SP & LP, by this time, my mental attitude was at it's worst!!! Just wanted to go home (3 1/2 hour drive in pouring rain to look forward to!!!)

But, there are positives - Even though overall I didn't play well, there were spells when for one game I totally dominated, winning the game easily. Knees!!! first time foe 17 months that my knees felt OK at the end of the days play, and this morning, no signs of tightness, pain etc.

Whether it was the early 04.30 get up, drive to the venue (in good conditions, but still 2hr + drive) that contributed to the poor mental attitude, I'm not sure!!!
Sometimes you just get up with the attitude of a Grizzly Bear who's been woken up out of hibernation early, and had their stash of honey stolen !!!

That's tough Ian - sorry to hear that. It is really difficult to turn any sort of bad start around for me, whether in a game or a match. Pimples also always going to challenge your speed of thinking too so doesn't help.

Good on you for going.

 

[NextLevel]

Tourney yesterday was disappointing to say the least!! played 6, won 1, lost 5.
During knock-up was playing OK, felt ready to go.
1st match was against a player with pips on his BH, I played like a beginner!!! mentally my head wasn't with it!! Didn't play to my strengths, found it real hard to concentrate, didn't put the training into practice, which really p****d me off more than losing!!!
This set the tone for the whole day!!
Slipped back into Rambo mode - too many risky shots at the wrong time!! again this is against want I've been training!!!
Lost 3-1 to 3 inverted players & won 3-0 against the 4th, I had played 2 of them previously at the last tourney in Bristol. lost v one 3-2, and won v the other 3-2. so close matches, but this time the lack of concentration and Mr Angry kickin in didn't help!!!
Last match was against a player with SP & LP, by this time, my mental attitude was at it's worst!!! Just wanted to go home (3 1/2 hour drive in pouring rain to look forward to!!!)

But, there are positives - Even though overall I didn't play well, there were spells when for one game I totally dominated, winning the game easily. Knees!!! first time foe 17 months that my knees felt OK at the end of the days play, and this morning, no signs of tightness, pain etc.

Whether it was the early 04.30 get up, drive to the venue (in good conditions, but still 2hr + drive) that contributed to the poor mental attitude, I'm not sure!!!
Sometimes you just get up with the attitude of a Grizzly Bear who's been woken up out of hibernation early, and had their stash of honey stolen !!!

Thanks for sharing, sounds a lot like the results (which you believe were largely driven by how you played) affected your perspective a lot. I think it is very important in competition to just accept how you are playing and to not think too much about the results if they are not part of a regular experiment (you playing players you play all the time). If you are the logical type, just keep processing without letting the information overload you. If you are the feeling type, just connect to your feelings and use them to guide you without letting them drive you up or down based on the results of the point. One of the most dangerous things when competing is to desire you play at close to 100% of your optimal playing level, sometimes even close to 80%. No one does, even the pros who play every day do not, and the issue becomes as coach Liu Guoliang says, what happens when you are 40% and the other guy is 70-80% or 90%. This is what he said he looks at when he picks his national team players, everyone can play well when they are at 80-100%. And these are pros on the best teams in the world, not amateurs like us who are training and playing a few times a week if we are lucky to get the chance. Learning how to play with margin, how to let the other guy take shots as well, how to accept when the other guy is on and you are not (and you can be the other guy on many days), is very important.

The worst part about tournaments can be how infrequent they are, but I hope you had fun. But I concluded a long time ago that it is a waste of time to judge myself seriously on how I played on one specific day, but I don't have any evidence I play better when I am angry, though I do play better when I am cheering myself while being surrounded by a hostile crowd. Sometimes even over a period of a few months (as crazy as it sounds). Because as the saying goes, it is always darkest before the dawn. And often, the dawn will come as long as you are following a good process, regardless of the story tied to it. The question is always whether you let your internal story short-circuit or damage that process, or you are able to let your perspective tell you that it happens, the dawn is coming, I just have to get back to work/sleep (or whatever the proper process is).

The other thing during competition is that it is easy to forget that a lot of your job is to also focus on making the other player play worse. But this gets lost when the focus is on how one is playing.

 

[jammmail]

This was going to be a tough weekend with family still around and work and school stuff to do on the weekend. So I asked my friend who goes to his church on Saturday mornings to play whether he would be going this Saturday. So 730am table tennis it was. We played for 2 hours, then I had to go take my kids to swimming.

I can do the reverse serve with the grip change but I need to practice third ball.because I am slow with the grip reversal to regular shakehand. I gave my practice partner some forehand and backhand tips then we started playing matches. I wanted to blank him out but lost a game after winning the first nine... grrr....

Then I started trying my own game where I would play everything to the bgg guys forehand. He never caught on and I was up 2‐0 then lost a game and then told him midway into the 4th game since he wasn't catching on. We spit thr last two games 1-1 on this mode before I had to leave. I will probably play some variant if this half table game against lower rated opponents going forward just for practice.

BTW this was a guy who used to beat me a lot when I returned to regular play in November last year. It fors take time for your game to come back after a long break...

How is the Golden Tango on the Cybershape? I know this thread isn't about equipment specifically so feel free to message me elsewhere. But i bought a Cybershape 2nd hand to try but am not really getting on with it, mainly the BH. But i am going to try different rubbers on it first - currently has DNA Pro H both sides but IM not sure how old they are. Certainly have a bit of grip but aren't fresh.

I have never tried Golden Tango or seen it being used so dont really know about it.

 

[NextLevel]

How is the Golden Tango on the Cybershape? I know this thread isn't about equipment specifically so feel free to message me elsewhere. But i bought a Cybershape 2nd hand to try but am not really getting on with it, mainly the BH. But i am going to try different rubbers on it first - currently has DNA Pro H both sides but IM not sure how old they are. Certainly have a bit of grip but aren't fresh.

I have never tried Golden Tango or seen it being used so dont really know about it.

Golden Tango is a sticky hybrid, more on the sticky side than most, with a hard sponge. It is also really spin oriented, not very fast - I think it was out in maybe 2017 or 2018? Relatively heavy too. If you are looking for something that plays like D09c but is much cheaper and not as fast/dynamic but more linear, it is a decent substitute. But if you are someone who likes non-sticky stuff like Dignics 05 or wants faster sticky stuff, then things like K3/Rasanter C53 are better bets. For me, it makes the Cybershape really spinny, because the Cybershape has relatively quick ball release for an innerforce blade, but the Tango slows that down and makes it a spin monster (though a head heavy spin monster). I don't test as much stuff as I used to so I don't know how Dragongrip or other Stiga equivalents play - I tried K3, but realized that my ball with it is not as disturbing so I will just stick with the Tango probably until something really compels me to switch. I know two stronger players than myself who use it (on forehand) so it won't be a limit on my playing level.

 

[jammmail]

Golden Tango is a sticky hybrid, more on the sticky side than most, with a hard sponge. It is also really spin oriented, not very fast - I think it was out in maybe 2017 or 2018? Relatively heavy too. If you are looking for something that plays like D09c but is much cheaper and not as fast/dynamic but more linear, it is a decent substitute. But if you are someone who likes non-sticky stuff like Dignics 05 or wants faster sticky stuff, then things like K3/Rasanter C53 are better bets. For me, it makes the Cybershape really spinny, because the Cybershape has relatively quick ball release for an innerforce blade, but the Tango slows that down and makes it a spin monster (though a head heavy spin monster). I don't test as much stuff as I used to so I don't know how Dragongrip or other Stiga equivalents play - I tried K3, but realized that my ball with it is not as disturbing so I will just stick with the Tango probably until something really compels me to switch. I know two stronger players than myself who use it (on forehand) so it won't be a limit on my playing level.

Interesting - and is something worth checking out. I like D09c and G09c - and dont like K3 (havent tried C53 but have tried C48).
Slowing it down and making it more spinny would be what i would like to change it too.

 

[IB66]

Interesting - and is something worth checking out. I like D09c and G09c - and dont like K3 (havent tried C53 but have tried C48).
Slowing it down and making it more spinny would be what i would like to change it too.

GT is an under rated rubber, should be on any EJ's list as a rubber to try!! I used it in the past (un-boosted), GT PS version is better for those who like more catapult / bounciness (but same tacky topsheet.)
Jekyll and Hyde H variant is akin to Bluegrip C1/C2, DNA dragon grip, G09C etc.
Xiom Tau2 (if you can get it) would be a good one to try as well.
H8-80 is also a great rubber, similar tackiness to GT (when GT is new).
Might get a sheet of GT again one day.
J&H H52 can be prone to a bit of ball slippage, like DNA dragon grip, if you don't add some spin with your stroke - more of a technique thing rather than an equipment thing, well for me anyway, others may have better feel and stroke technique and not encounter this issue. that said I don't get ball slip with H8-80, GT, Tau2 or G09C.

 

[JeffM]

Hi guys,
just curious as to how do you guys deal with crazy top spins.

Context:
in matches and competitions, players often try to spin the ball up so I cannot control the spin and the ball either flies off the back edge of the table or ends up in the net. This happens when I try to serve short but I couldn't as I try to put alot of spin on the serve, and then this leads to them returning a even more spinier loop.

I tried to block but the ball would go out.
I tried to counter loop but I would miss the ball completely as the ball often dips and I hit air only.

I spoke to my doubles partner, and he recommended if the ball is high, to smack it down, aiming just above the net. I haven't tried that yet but I feel that would be quite high risk.
Another friend said I need soft hands, to try imagine moving the wrist to the ball but keeping the hand free. This sounds good but I don't know whether I can actually do that.

What do you guys do if you are in my position?
I find it very hard to get these practice as not much ppl can do it for me. Even when I ask the coach to do it last week, she didn't really do a proper job of it.

Thanks

 

[vvk1]

Tourney yesterday was disappointing to say the least!! played 6, won 1, lost 5.
During knock-up was playing OK, felt ready to go.
1st match was against a player with pips on his BH, I played like a beginner!!! mentally my head wasn't with it!! Didn't play to my strengths, found it real hard to concentrate, didn't put the training into practice, which really p****d me off more than losing!!!
This set the tone for the whole day!!
Slipped back into Rambo mode - too many risky shots at the wrong time!! again this is against want I've been training!!!
Lost 3-1 to 3 inverted players & won 3-0 against the 4th, I had played 2 of them previously at the last tourney in Bristol. lost v one 3-2, and won v the other 3-2. so close matches, but this time the lack of concentration and Mr Angry kickin in didn't help!!!
Last match was against a player with SP & LP, by this time, my mental attitude was at it's worst!!! Just wanted to go home (3 1/2 hour drive in pouring rain to look forward to!!!)

But, there are positives - Even though overall I didn't play well, there were spells when for one game I totally dominated, winning the game easily. Knees!!! first time foe 17 months that my knees felt OK at the end of the days play, and this morning, no signs of tightness, pain etc.

Whether it was the early 04.30 get up, drive to the venue (in good conditions, but still 2hr + drive) that contributed to the poor mental attitude, I'm not sure!!!
Sometimes you just get up with the attitude of a Grizzly Bear who's been woken up out of hibernation early, and had their stash of honey stolen !!!

Ian - good seeing you at the tournament yesterday. Many thanks again for lending me the tripod for the day! I saw Reinhard and Andy were in your group - both have very unique styles and could be very tricky to play against.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@IB66

sorry for your tournament buddy. It hurts to wake up so early and spend a whole day out, just to get beaten so hard.

Actually I'm coping even harder. haven't posted about my tournaments for a while, but its been an absolute disaster. i stopped doing stats because its hurting too much, i must be at only less than 25% wins for the year, and i must have like 10 losses IN A ROW. I'm losing guys that I used to win or that i would have won. I'm losing so much confidence now that it makes things even more difficult especially when things get tight. I'm even throwing away games and have many negative thoughts which was very rarely the case. I used to be a fighter.

The seemingly paradoxical thing is that my teammates and coaches say that i've never played so good but the results say absolutely the contrary as well as the unofficial rating which is at the lowest its ever been (-250 points from ATH before Covid).

tough pill to swallow when i train so much , spend so much on 1-to-1 coaching, and see another teammate about my age, and training as much whose trajectory is going up from roughly the same starting point.

of course my teammates are wrong and/or just trying to help me cope. YES on some ASPECTS of the game maybe i've never been that good, but that just exposes how weak is the rest, notably some of the most essential stuff (receive & 3rd ball). my skills are so unbalanced.

its got to the point where i wonder whether i should quit the sport... But so far i can't quit more than a week...LOL i must be masochistic somehow.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi guys,
just curious as to how do you guys deal with crazy top spins.

Context:
in matches and competitions, players often try to spin the ball up so I cannot control the spin and the ball either flies off the back edge of the table or ends up in the net. This happens when I try to serve short but I couldn't as I try to put alot of spin on the serve, and then this leads to them returning a even more spinier loop.

I tried to block but the ball would go out.
I tried to counter loop but I would miss the ball completely as the ball often dips and I hit air only.

I spoke to my doubles partner, and he recommended if the ball is high, to smack it down, aiming just above the net. I haven't tried that yet but I feel that would be quite high risk.
Another friend said I need soft hands, to try imagine moving the wrist to the ball but keeping the hand free. This sounds good but I don't know whether I can actually do that.

What do you guys do if you are in my position?
I find it very hard to get these practice as not much ppl can do it for me. Even when I ask the coach to do it last week, she didn't really do a proper job of it.

Thanks

Dealing with heavy spin is always an experience process, give yourself a chance to read it and give yourself a chance to develop a swing speed that makes you confident, both on the block (where you need to press down on the ball a little) and the countertopspin, where you have to swing in a plane that you usually think will put the ball in the net.

This is really a matter of practice and trusting yourself especially the forehand countertopspin, even pros miss this shot relative to their levels, you just need to continue to try it until you accept that the swing plane is rarely upwards and that swinging forward and over the ball works. You can play around with contact points on the side of the ball to make your ball contact and swing path a bit safer, but in the end, the practice is the key and the earlier you start the better. You have to get used to borrowing the spin., not try to add so much of your own. You also have to read the ball correctly, but once you realize you have the shot, then you can stop thinking about that and just swing and hope for the best, it is a risky shot at every level, you have to make sure that you have the right conditions to play the shot.

If you game gets more physical, you can also step back and take the ball slight later but at the right height, and with the right sidetop contact on the ball., that works as well.

 

[JeffM]

Dealing with heavy spin is always an experience process, give yourself a chance to read it and give yourself a chance to develop a swing speed that makes you confident, both on the block (where you need to press down on the ball a little) and the countertopspin, where you have to swing in a plane that you usually think will put the ball in the net.

This is really a matter of practice and trusting yourself especially the forehand countertopspin, even pros miss this shot relative to their levels, you just need to continue to try it until you accept that the swing plane is rarely upwards and that swinging forward and over the ball works. You can play around with contact points on the side of the ball to make your ball contact and swing path a bit safer, but in the end, the practice is the key and the earlier you start the better. You have to get used to borrowing the spin., not try to add so much of your own. You also have to read the ball correctly, but once you realize you have the shot, then you can stop thinking about that and just swing and hope for the best, it is a risky shot at every level, you have to make sure that you have the right conditions to play the shot.

If you game gets more physical, you can also step back and take the ball slight later but at the right height, and with the right sidetop contact on the ball., that works as well.

I am trying to see how I could improve on that aspect of dealing with the spin, and I am open to not being risk taking. But I can't even deal with it even in a conservative manner.
The only time it has ever worked is if i stand back and literally wait for the ball the drop so much that I but my bat near vertical and just let the ball hit my rubber and it creates such a high bounce that it becomes a lob, but that is asking for my opponent to smash the ball next shot.
I am terrible at trying to block it, perhaps only slightly more successful than trying to hit it.

I will take a look at the video tomorrow, thanks. Just finished work and it is past midnight.

 

[NextLevel]

I am trying to see how I could improve on that aspect of dealing with the spin, and I am open to not being risk taking. But I can't even deal with it even in a conservative manner.
The only time it has ever worked is if i stand back and literally wait for the ball the drop so much that I but my bat near vertical and just let the ball hit my rubber and it creates such a high bounce that it becomes a lob, but that is asking for my opponent to smash the ball next shot.
I am terrible at trying to block it, perhaps only slightly more successful than trying to hit it.

I will take a look at the video tomorrow, thanks. Just finished work and it is past midnight.

I think the problem is that you are trying to be conservative and the conservatism is making you do things you think are conservative, but which really do not work against heavy spin. The only thing that I know is truly conservative against heavy spin is trapping the side of the ball.

Let's problem solve a little. If you stepped back like you just said you could but rather than holding bat vertical, you hit into the ball a little more while holding the bat vertical, what would you thin would happen?

If you closed the paddle a bit more, what would you think would happen?

Do realize that part of the reason the ball goes vertical is that you aren't getting enough sponge and wood involved so the topsheet is working too hard. so hitting into the ball without changing the angle, just by itself, might keep the ball lower than you think it will. Many people might assume that the ball will go upwards in both cases, but this is not quite true. Hitting into the ball keeps the ball trajectory lower just by letting the sponge work.

 

[Der_Echte]

The most conservative and safe way to handle heavy topspin incoming balls is to get the bat close to the bounce with a loose grip (and close the bat the right amount).

Next conservative way is a step plus away from table, very short swing, allow ball to come to strike zone, close bat and loose grip... will not produce a ton of spin, but ball will go back safe.

Next conservative way is to impact ball on side a bit.

Next conservative way is to goof off with long pips.

 

[NextLevel]

BTW, I once took a lesson with a coach (2600 penholder) and when I served long backspin and she looped it and I blocked it long, she just told me to stop serving so heavy if I wasn't able to deal with it. So maybe the most conservative way to deal with heavy spin is to not allow it at all lol!

But more seriously, I think closing over the ball is difficult when the ball is shorter on the table unless you get to the ball early and over the table, you can send the ball long regardless. So I think your option 2 is more conservative than option 1, it just sometimes produces a higher ball than idea, but the ball can be kept reasonably low as well using it.

I think counterspinning is more conservative than many people think once you read the ball correctly. Reading the ball correctly and giving yourself room to swing is the hard part and not hitting the ball too hard when it is high - that is the part that makes everyone a sucker...

The most conservative and safe way to handle heavy topspin incoming balls is to get the bat close to the bounce with a loose grip (and close the bat the right amount).

Next conservative way is a step plus away from table, very short swing, allow ball to come to strike zone, close bat and loose grip... will not produce a ton of spin, but ball will go back safe.

Next conservative way is to impact ball on side a bit.

Next conservative way is to goof off with long pips.

 

[Wrighty67]

@IB66

sorry for your tournament buddy. It hurts to wake up so early and spend a whole day out, just to get beaten so hard.

Actually I'm coping even harder. haven't posted about my tournaments for a while, but its been an absolute disaster. i stopped doing stats because its hurting too much, i must be at only less than 25% wins for the year, and i must have like 10 losses IN A ROW. I'm losing guys that I used to win or that i would have won. I'm losing so much confidence now that it makes things even more difficult especially when things get tight. I'm even throwing away games and have many negative thoughts which was very rarely the case. I used to be a fighter.

The seemingly paradoxical thing is that my teammates and coaches say that i've never played so good but the results say absolutely the contrary as well as the unofficial rating which is at the lowest its ever been (-250 points from ATH before Covid).

tough pill to swallow when i train so much , spend so much on 1-to-1 coaching, and see another teammate about my age, and training as much whose trajectory is going up from roughly the same starting point.

of course my teammates are wrong and/or just trying to help me cope. YES on some ASPECTS of the game maybe i've never been that good, but that just exposes how weak is the rest, notably some of the most essential stuff (receive & 3rd ball). my skills are so unbalanced.

its got to the point where i wonder whether i should quit the sport... But so far i can't quit more than a week...LOL i must be masochistic somehow.

I can relate. I do think that there’s a trade off as I focus on technique and building foundations at the expense of match play and winning. I’m hoping it will pay back over time!

 

[IB66]

Ian - good seeing you at the tournament yesterday. Many thanks again for lending me the tripod for the day! I saw Reinhard and Andy were in your group - both have very unique styles and could be very tricky to play against.

Hi Vadym, great seeing you yesterday.
Reinhard is the fella I played last, and by this time I was just wanting to get home!!! Tbh my attitude was pretty poor, disinterested, angry and moody. Ref should have shown me red!!
All day I had trouble concentrating properly, which is strange because I like the venue and have played well there previously.

You mentioned that you had to adapt your play style because of the number of ‘hitters’ in the group, heavy spin slower openers were being put away by your opponents, this may be of interest to JeffM !!!
Really enjoyed watching your win against the guy that plays a fishing/ lobbing game, just watching you knackered me out!! Great win.