Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Yecats Encerwal]

Are you the one in blue shirt and black shorts? LOL. That must have driven people crazy trying to tell you two apart when you are twins and wearing pretty much the same gear.

You guys both played really well back then. Good stuff.

I'm the one with the white shoes!

I know its hard to tell haha I'm the one who starts on the far side, so i guess try and keep track from there!

Thanks Carl

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'm the one with the white shoes!

I know its hard to tell haha I'm the one who starts on the far side, so i guess try and keep track from there!

Thanks Carl

Doe! I almost added the white shoes. I knew it was that.

But now I see, you are the one who bounced the ball off your head on the change of sides at 5-4 in the 5th. That makes it easier to tell the difference.

How old were you when you started actual training for table tennis? Fun to watch you and your brother play each other.

 

[NextLevel]

Final standings. Please let me know if I missed your entry.

1. Richie
2. Boogar
3. Jirrex
4. Shuki
5. Pingpongholic10
6. OldSchoolPenholder
7. SchemeSC
8. RayLazyfo

Please PM me your email (and I will correspond and get you something) or your mailing address (and I will mail you something). Other than the already listed prizes, which are at least new and guaranteed, it will be a new rubber or a used blade or some combination of both. And maybe something else, who knows...

So I managed to put out more stuff today for Jirrex, Boogar, OSPH and pingpongholic. Now SchemeSC and Shuki are left. I should be able to get something out soon, will just enter some dialogue so I know what they want - Shuki I am already fairly sure what I will send, schemesc I will try to discuss with. But everything is easier when you are in the US.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Doe! I almost added the white shoes. I knew it was that.

But now I see, you are the one who bounced the ball off your head on the change of sides at 5-4 in the 5th. That makes it easier to tell the difference.

How old were you when you started actual training for table tennis? Fun to watch you and your brother play each other.

We were around 9/10, so we'd been playing for around 4 years.

Been playing over 10 now, and never looked back!

 

[Boogar]

We were around 9/10, so we'd been playing for around 4 years.

Been playing over 10 now, and never looked back!

Very cool! How did you get into tabletennis?

Because I have heard about tabletennis clubs only about 2 years ago, i never even heard of tabletennis clubs before I guess that's what makes it a niche sports.

 

[Shuki]

So I managed to put out more stuff today for Jirrex, Boogar, OSPH and pingpongholic. Now SchemeSC and Shuki are left. I should be able to get something out soon, will just enter some dialogue so I know what they want - Shuki I am already fairly sure what I will send, schemesc I will try to discuss with. But everything is easier when you are in the US.

Better have a return address for me to send you your prize!

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Very cool! How did you get into tabletennis?

Because I have heard about tabletennis clubs only about 2 years ago, i never even heard of tabletennis clubs before I guess that's what makes it a niche sports.

Well we used to play football (soccer) but didn't really enjoy it that much, partly because of the cold rainy weather etc

So our parents decided it would be a good idea for us to try out a new sport, and so they took us down to a local sports centre on a day where they were running a lot of "taster sessions" for people to try new sports. We looked at this list of sports on offer, and for some reason (no idea why) chose table tennis. We had an hour session with a coach, some basic multi-ball and rallying, and have loved it since

What's cool is that the coach on that first day is still our coach, even to this day

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Had my first proper group training session since the new year last night, played okay, but it served as a reminder that I really dislike plastic training balls. It just seems so hard to find two that look, sound, or feel the same when rallying.

We use the Xushofa balls in training, the match balls are fine (ish) but the training balls are not great.

#BringBackCelluloid

 

[Archosaurus]

Now when my opponents are getting better, I've been getting into forehand rallies with some of them. Looping their loop, or their drive.

I've noticed I don't reset properly after a stroke. My initial strokes might be okay, but it gets worse. I need to add a small hop or something into my habits, or there's no way I'm gonna be able to rally with anyone who's any good.

If the ball moves around a lot, I do better than if the ball doesn't change placement much or at all, because then I get stuck in the same spot. So I'm inclined to believe that I don't have a good reset in my habits.

 

[Boogar]

Now when my opponents are getting better, I've been getting into forehand rallies with some of them. Looping their loop, or their drive.

I've noticed I don't reset properly after a stroke. My initial strokes might be okay, but it gets worse. I need to add a small hop or something into my habits, or there's no way I'm gonna be able to rally with anyone who's any good.

If the ball moves around a lot, I do better than if the ball doesn't change placement much or at all, because then I get stuck in the same spot. So I'm inclined to believe that I don't have a good reset in my habits.

I know what you mean. The most annoying balls are those that come shorter than you expected, so you have to awkwardly step forward and then pivot. In the topspin rally's off the table that is.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Now when my opponents are getting better, I've been getting into forehand rallies with some of them. Looping their loop, or their drive.

I've noticed I don't reset properly after a stroke. My initial strokes might be okay, but it gets worse. I need to add a small hop or something into my habits, or there's no way I'm gonna be able to rally with anyone who's any good.

If the ball moves around a lot, I do better than if the ball doesn't change placement much or at all, because then I get stuck in the same spot. So I'm inclined to believe that I don't have a good reset in my habits.

This is a common problem with new players, and although there are things you can do to help it, it is something that improves by itself over time as you practice more and more.

Do you think your resetting problem could be caused by a FH follow-through that is too long? If so, perhaps shorten the stroke a little and increase arm speed instead, to generate the power.

When you say reset, do you mean footwork? Or your arm?

The fact that you say your better when the ball is moving around the table, leads me to believe it is a stroke technique/speed issue as supposed to footwork.

What do you reckon?

Its good that you can self analyse and identify problems though

 

[SchemeSC]

So one of the things I want to accomplish this year is to develop a playbook, as compared to just walking up to the table and serving with no plan. Right now I am working on serving short to the opponent's backhand (either pendulum or straight backspin) and then trying to dominate the backhand diagonal, working their elbow and wide backhand. When I do things correctly, it looks something like this:

My problem comes when I play higher level players and they are able to drop the ball short to my wide FH:

As you can see, I tend to get to this ball very late and I either push the ball into the net or play a weak push and my opponent opens up strongly. Is there something wrong with my recovery after the serve that makes me late to this ball? Or do I just need better anticipation?

 

[Archosaurus]

This is a common problem with new players, and although there are things you can do to help it, it is something that improves by itself over time as you practice more and more.

Do you think your resetting problem could be caused by a FH follow-through that is too long? If so, perhaps shorten the stroke a little and increase arm speed instead, to generate the power.

When you say reset, do you mean footwork? Or your arm?

The fact that you say your better when the ball is moving around the table, leads me to believe it is a stroke technique/speed issue as supposed to footwork.

What do you reckon?

Its good that you can self analyse and identify problems though

I don't think my stroke is too long necessarily. I can get my bat properly into the backswing, and I can even hit the ball.


My problem is footwork. If I am forced to move to a ball, I will be able to put it into a better striking zone than if I am not forced to move to it. Forced meaning that I will not be able to contact it without footwork.

If I'm not forced to move to it, I will read the ball correctly and know that I must move to it: but by the time I realize, it's too late. I need to make it a habit to reset with my footwork, every time. That way I can continue moving to the ball, even if it's just one small step to bring it closer or to adjust my zone laterally.

When I'm playing very well, I think I am more active in the small footwork. But often I stay stuck in one position, and am forced to hit the ball from too far in front of me most commonly. I can get my bat on the ball just fine: but it's not a great shot.

 

[NextLevel]

So one of the things I want to accomplish this year is to develop a playbook, as compared to just walking up to the table and serving with no plan. Right now I am working on serving short to the opponent's backhand (either pendulum or straight backspin) and then trying to dominate the backhand diagonal, working their elbow and wide backhand. When I do things correctly, it looks something like this:


My problem comes when I play higher level players and they are able to drop the ball short to my wide FH:
As you can see, I tend to get to this ball very late and I either push the ball into the net or play a weak push and my opponent opens up strongly. Is there something wrong with my recovery after the serve that makes me late to this ball? Or do I just need better anticipation?

You don't have long arms, SchemeScC but dropping the ball short to the forehand side is a standard play and you need to have a few responses. Don't think in terms of right and wrong in table tennis. At your level, it is more about what you are taking and what you are giving up. People who can do what AS did consistently are rare and even if someone is doing it, you need to have a programmed response. If that requires you to change your ready position for that play, something else will open up as well. In the end, alll standard responses must be trained against.

More spin on your serve should make it harder and you might need a good flip. I also think if you want to serve short into the backhand, it is better to do so with reverse sidespin. Easier to attack but harder to attack hard other than back to your backhand where you are already waiting.

But serve choice is like that. You can't do one serve all the time and you can't return serves one way all the time. You are already at a level where these things will get you into trouble.

I would also strongly recommend you practice targetting the middle or the elbow on serves. There is that small area where a player has to move to get power behind the ball over the table on both forehand and backhand and you will get a weak return if you find it and place the ball there. Being able to open to the middle on both the forehand and backhand side will pay huge dividends as well. Opening to the wings becomes too vanilla after a while and few players train against a hard third ball to the elbow. Coaching makes it comfortable to loop into good coaching blocks - looping fast into the elbow is the easiest way to draw a weak return.

 

[SchemeSC]

I would also strongly recommend you practice targetting the middle or the elbow on serves. There is that small area where a player has to move to get power behind the ball over the table on both forehand and backhand and you will get a weak return if you find it and place the ball there.

Thanks NL. When I talked to AS after the session, he told me the exact same thing. He said that I needed to move the serve more to the middle of the table (more to the right from his perspective, closer to his playing elbow). Originally, I didn't agree because I thought that would only allow him to push at an even wider angle and further expose my problem of moving to the wide forehand. But the receiver has to take the ball right off the bounce in order to make that kind of return. If I can serve into an area where the receiver has to move and make a decision about whether to play a FH or BH, then an off-the-bounce receive is less likely.

 

[thekleifheit13]

I don't think my stroke is too long necessarily. I can get my bat properly into the backswing, and I can even hit the ball.


My problem is footwork. If I am forced to move to a ball, I will be able to put it into a better striking zone than if I am not forced to move to it. Forced meaning that I will not be able to contact it without footwork.

If I'm not forced to move to it, I will read the ball correctly and know that I must move to it: but by the time I realize, it's too late. I need to make it a habit to reset with my footwork, every time. That way I can continue moving to the ball, even if it's just one small step to bring it closer or to adjust my zone laterally.

When I'm playing very well, I think I am more active in the small footwork. But often I stay stuck in one position, and am forced to hit the ball from too far in front of me most commonly. I can get my bat on the ball just fine: but it's not a great shot.

This sounds like it's because you're used to playing less skilled players that hit to the same spot over and over again. It could also be due to doing shadow strokes statically in position. Ideally, you want to have a small reset hop after each shot to get yourself moving too. I had the same problem but since taking lessons it really doesn't happen much anymore, probably because my coach moves me around a lot with multi ball.

 

[DTopSpirit]

So one of the things I want to accomplish this year is to develop a playbook, as compared to just walking up to the table and serving with no plan. Right now I am working on serving short to the opponent's backhand (either pendulum or straight backspin) and then trying to dominate the backhand diagonal, working their elbow and wide backhand. When I do things correctly, it looks something like this:

My problem comes when I play higher level players and they are able to drop the ball short to my wide FH:

As you can see, I tend to get to this ball very late and I either push the ball into the net or play a weak push and my opponent opens up strongly. Is there something wrong with my recovery after the serve that makes me late to this ball? Or do I just need better anticipation?

Pay close attention to your left foot after serving, and notice how you move straight from the serve into a stance where your left foot is behind your right foot in comparison to the line of play (where your shoulders are more or less square to where the ball is coming from). You go from serving straight into a backhand stance, so the natural result is that you will be comfortable when your opponent plays to your backhand, and awkward when he plays to your forehand.

A good start would be facing your shoulders more closely to square to the ball, and then having your right foot a little behind your left foot in comparison to your shoulders (i.e. normal forehand stance). Given that you are serving diagonally and then moving your left foot back, you are ending up in a quite exaggerated backhand stance in the videos shown.

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks NL. When I talked to AS after the session, he told me the exact same thing. He said that I needed to move the serve more to the middle of the table (more to the right from his perspective, closer to his playing elbow). Originally, I didn't agree because I thought that would only allow him to push at an even wider angle and further expose my problem of moving to the wide forehand. But the receiver has to take the ball right off the bounce in order to make that kind of return. If I can serve into an area where the receiver has to move and make a decision about whether to play a FH or BH, then an off-the-bounce receive is less likely.

The receiver usually has to take the ball off the bounce to make a good return but it is not necessarily true, The thing is that everyone has serve return strengths and weaknesses. Tom Lodziak recently wrote an article called the perfect serve and his point was that it doesn't matter what serve it is, the main thing is to be albe to serve it to all the six major return areas on the table so that you can move the opponent around and probe for return weaknesses. In fact, most people return serves most poorly at the short forehand, especially a reverse tyoe serve, and most people attack or return serves best at the short backhand. That said, it is relatively difficult to serve to the short forehand unless you put yourself in a position to do so. That's why it is valuable if you are a two winged looper to be be able to serve from the center line on some serves so you have different and good access to all points on the table, especially if you feel comfortable recovering in either direction.

From where AS dropped it, if you can put the ball into HIS short forehand, you may see interesting results. But the key is to have YOUR couple of planned plays in returned to his. And if not, once that return shows up too often, stop serving to that point on the table with that spin - something has to change.

AS is a good player, you don't get to 2000 without learning a lot of stuff. I don't remember him getting particularly strong coaching on a regular basis either, so he must have absorbed a lot of lessons playing.

 

[Archosaurus]

This sounds like it's because you're used to playing less skilled players that hit to the same spot over and over again. It could also be due to doing shadow strokes statically in position. Ideally, you want to have a small reset hop after each shot to get yourself moving too. I had the same problem but since taking lessons it really doesn't happen much anymore, probably because my coach moves me around a lot with multi ball.

I think you nailed it. I usually play people who are worse than me, and my game can force their game to be very predictable.

They move the ball around, but not in the way that much better players do. They hit forehand, backhand and middle, but it's always the same forehand, backhand and middle. If you understand what I mean. I can feel distinct patterns.

Sometimes they will indeed hit to basically the same spot over and over again, especially if I'm playing to their elbow and not moving them around. Of course, I can win in these kinds of rallies by just going to a different spot on the table or adding sidespin, but the fundamental issue is still there.

I don't do enough multiball, and I've never done multiball with a really good feeder, so I'm pretty sure it's mostly due to that, and static shadow drills as you mentioned.

The only thing I can do for now is to consciously add a small hop in and just focus on ball quality and not just returning it. If I focus on quality, it forces me to take a better stance and move to the ball, at least I've noticed.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

I don't think my stroke is too long necessarily. I can get my bat properly into the backswing, and I can even hit the ball.


My problem is footwork. If I am forced to move to a ball, I will be able to put it into a better striking zone than if I am not forced to move to it. Forced meaning that I will not be able to contact it without footwork.

If I'm not forced to move to it, I will read the ball correctly and know that I must move to it: but by the time I realize, it's too late. I need to make it a habit to reset with my footwork, every time. That way I can continue moving to the ball, even if it's just one small step to bring it closer or to adjust my zone laterally.

When I'm playing very well, I think I am more active in the small footwork. But often I stay stuck in one position, and am forced to hit the ball from too far in front of me most commonly. I can get my bat on the ball just fine: but it's not a great shot.

Hi Archo,

The best way to practice resetting footwork between strokes is to try to get back to your "ready-position" (the place you would be when receiving a serve, slightly to the left of the centre line) between every shot. This will feel extremely difficult to begin with, but once you get used to that side-to-side movement, you can adjust it accordingly to match the practice you are doing. So if you are doing, as you said in your original post, forehand loop to forehand loop, you don't have to move all the way to your ready position between shots, but you should still move in that direction. Finding a position to "reset" to between shots helps to develop rhythm and consistency. After all, it is much easier to side-step right than left to get to a forehand, as you can stretch to it if needs be, (not recommended though!) and throw your weight into it. Whereas you are off balance if you have to shuffle left to a ball. This is partly why the service receive ready position is more towards the backhand (left) side.

Hope this makes sense/helps a bit