Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

I was smart enough to use my main bat in training last night. Adjustment is quick, but it still takes a couple of balls and takes attention away from other stuff.
Also I have been working on improving my core for a while now and I feel like results are starting to show. I can keep my stance better and more powerful, and it's easier that way to feel whether I'm putting my weight behind the shot or not.
The coach has been trying out a Viscaria SALC for a while now and I asked how it's going. He said it's still way too fast and he's using his IFL ZLC in matches.
He offered me to try it out, and damn he's not kidding, Super Vis is fast! Was really interesting to feel that bat, and also getting a bit of an impression on D09c and D05 on the same blade, too. The best part of the bat was the balance though, absolutely great.
After that it was more footwork and irregular drills, and some serve/receive challenges. Just really useful stuff.
This Friday we're facing our direct competitor for P1 and we have to win to take the top spot after round 7 of 10. If we lose 3-2 we'll be shared P2-3-4 😅 it's tight! So I'm glad I squeezed two nights of training in instead of one.

I uae a Super Viscaria at 84g. I don't know whether it is my choice of weight but I don't feel the lack of control some do.

 

[Tyce]

I uae a Super Viscaria at 84g. I don't know whether it is my choice of weight but I don't feel the lack of control some do.

If I remember correctly, you have been using crisp outer blades for a while, right? I think with the right background (ie coming from a Viscaria or Primo Carbon) the timing will fit more with the Viscaria SALC than coming from Innerforce.
Coach plays top national level though and he could probably still beat most players regardless. To me, it's absolutely not my blade.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I uae a Super Viscaria at 84g. I don't know whether it is my choice of weight but I don't feel the lack of control some do.

To be fair to others, most have not already previously trained and adapted to other hard and stiff blades like IFT5000 and Mazunov. I remember when I first tried an outer ALC blade and couldn't get over how numb and pingy it felt, compared to the 5 ply wood blades I had used up to that point

 

[NextLevel]

To be fair to others, most have not already previously trained and adapted to other hard and stiff blades like IFT5000 and Mazunov. I remember when I first tried an outer ALC blade and couldn't get over how numb and pingy it felt, compared to the 5 ply wood blades I had used up to that point

You would be shocked if I told you the frequency of the innerforcr T5000 I used. Mazunov has good rebound but its frequency is also relatively low though it is stiff. And whej I first used Mazunov, it was a major step up in speed from what I used previously and I used it with Fastarc C1. In the end, I realize now that i just didnt appreciate how rusty I was having sat out over a year of play to deal with injuries and the birth of my kids so I naturally blamed the equipment lol (which had some but not much merit). But I get your point that someone who uses an innerforce blade can find outer ALC a problem and then taking that further with Super not just regular ALC.

 

[NextLevel]

If I remember correctly, you have been using crisp outer blades for a while, right? I think with the right background (ie coming from a Viscaria or Primo Carbon) the timing will fit more with the Viscaria SALC than coming from Innerforce.
Coach plays top national level though and he could probably still beat most players regardless. To me, it's absolutely not my blade.

I get you 100%. As someone who spent most of his playing life using all wood blades, usually 5 plies like Korbel Speed, and made rhe jump over time and mostly using sticky hybrid rubbers like D09c or slower rubbers like Fastarc to give the feeling of continuous control, I would say that the first step is to get something that gives you a feeling of continuous control. Then the second is to practice blocking and short strokes and letting the blade do the work. Most people used to using all wood are too used to doing the work that the blade does when it has carbon. Focus on your brush and timing.

That said, for many experienced and extremely strong players, they have optimized their play and feeling for blades in a specific range/frequency. So it is less about the blade speed itself and more about what feels optimal to them. That's why I focus less on the wisdom of a blade being too slow or too fast and more on whether a blade feels your natural feeling.

But finally, for a player who wants to try a switch as an amateur who isn't making serious money in the sport, one week is probably too short a time to try and change, it should be a longer term project. In my experience you can always go back, but sometimes the skill gained in adapting feeling improves other aspects of your game.

EDIT: To add to what I wrote about change, the biggest thing that prevents people from changing is that they don't do what I call "range training". When playing topspins with a setup, trying to increase the arc, decrease the arc, hit points close to the net, hit points close to the endlines, all with similar technique. Or even loop onto your side of the table. These force you to adapt to the blade and help you adjust to the blade faster as you are pushing your technique to its limits. When blocking, something similar should be attempted, reducing the amount of tightness in your fingers etc. This is hard to change over the period of one day or even one week unless you practice it a lot with your equipment and even then everyone has natural tendencies. But it will enable you to use shorter strokes on many faster blades and the rewards can be tremendous. The block is probably the most powerful and underestimated stroke in TT.

 

[Tyce]

I get you 100%. As someone who spent most of his playing life using all wood blades, usually 5 plies like Korbel Speed, and made rhe jump over time and mostly using sticky hybrid rubbers like D09c or slower rubbers like Fastarc to give the feeling of continuous control, I would say that the first step is to get something that gives you a feeling of continuous control. Then the second is to practice blocking and short strokes and letting the blade do the work. Most people used to using all wood are too used to doing the work that the blade does when it has carbon. Focus on your brush and timing.

I get that. I had a lot of trouble getting something between a slow high loop and a ripping killer ball on the table when I first started playing with Pro 01 as a first outer carbon experience.
If I go back there, I will need to slow down things rubber wise.

That said, for many experienced and extremely strong players, they have optimized their play and feeling for blades in a specific range/frequency. So it is less about the blade speed itself and more about what feels optimal to them. That's why I focus less on the wisdom of a blade being too slow or too fast and more on whether a blade feels your natural feeling.

That's true. My personal case is I'm trying to evolve from the thin, slow, allwood that I've been using for years. It's a multi-faceted challenge where I'm
a) trying to find out what kind of setup I would like to move to
b) playing a mix of older, longer strokes and newer, more compact strokes all while trying to gauge whether I like what I'm playing with.

I like innerforce, but I also like outer carbon as in a more Viscaria like structure, or that Timo Boll ZLC. For now, I am going with the innerforce as it is the most versatile and I can use it with longer and more compact strokes. The predictable nature of outer carbon is still very alluring though.

But finally, for a player who wants to try a switch as an amateur who isn't making serious money in the sport, one week is probably too short a time to try and change, it should be a longer term project. In my experience you can always go back, but sometimes the skill gained in adapting feeling improves other aspects of your game.

EDIT: To add to what I wrote about change, the biggest thing that prevents people from changing is that they don't do what I call "range training". When playing topspins with a setup, trying to increase the arc, decrease the arc, hit points close to the net, hit points close to the endlines, all with similar technique. Or even loop onto your side of the table. These force you to adapt to the blade and help you adjust to the blade faster as you are pushing your technique to its limits. When blocking, something similar should be attempted, reducing the amount of tightness in your fingers etc. This is hard to change over the period of one day or even one week unless you practice it a lot with your equipment and even then everyone has natural tendencies. But it will enable you to use shorter strokes on many faster blades and the rewards can be tremendous. The block is probably the most powerful and underestimated stroke in TT.

 

[NextLevel]

To

I get that. I had a lot of trouble getting something between a slow high loop and a ripping killer ball on the table when I first started playing with Pro 01 as a first outer carbon experience.
If I go back there, I will need to slow down things rubber wise.

That's true. My personal case is I'm trying to evolve from the thin, slow, allwood that I've been using for years. It's a multi-faceted challenge where I'm
a) trying to find out what kind of setup I would like to move to
b) playing a mix of older, longer strokes and newer, more compact strokes all while trying to gauge whether I like what I'm playing with.

I like innerforce, but I also like outer carbon as in a more Viscaria like structure, or that Timo Boll ZLC. For now, I am going with the innerforce as it is the most versatile and I can use it with longer and more compact strokes. The predictable nature of outer carbon is still very alluring though.

I used to detest outer carbon for a long time - the first true outercarbon blade I played with as my primary blade was Joola Vzaryz Trinity and I used it with sticky rubbers. But after using the Garaydia ALC for a while as well, I just became used to it. Ultimately, I am convinced that in the big scheme of things for amateurs, adaptation through training is way more important than blades/rubbers roughly in the same class. Equipment tweaks can't give you more than 50-100 pts, which is a lot, but is small compared to the kinds of leaps most amateurs are trying to make. And most of us are stuck with tweaks rather than large changes (though when one makes a large change, the question becomes whether it is the training to implement the large change or the change it self that drove the improvement - this sport is annoyingly complicated... )

 

[Tyce]

Trained tonight, our venue has real grippy, rubberized gym flooring and last week we played away on super bouncy painted concrete (slippery and dusty, too).
I realised that what fell apart last week was due to me working on posture a lot. On our home floor I can really lean into the grip, but less grippy floors require a more refined balance. I suppose that will come in time.
I played with someone who I should beat every time, but he's resilient enough to keep me on my toes about it. Did manage to win every single game by playing smart, low risk stuff without letting down the pressure too much.

Usually by the 5th game or so I will start losing focus. Not this week.

 

[NextLevel]

Whacked my thumb on the table trying to pick up a half long ball. I blame the lighting where I played lol. I have to get it checked out this morning. Didn't want to deal with all the ER expenses. A bit surprised that this is the first time i have ever had an issue picking up half long balls. I blame the lighting but I also have to see whether my ball approach with Zyre needs to be re-trained for this.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

went today to a round robin tournament (6 rounds). i was 2nd from bottom ranked out of 16 players.

lost 1st match to a much higher ranked veteran 0-3 although i was very close in G1 9-11 and 10-12, got a game point there but i collapsed in G3.

lost 2nd match to chopper with anti, i beated him last week 3-1 in an excellent practice match but couldn't play as good as on that day 1-3

won 3rd match to another chopper with LP, guy was ranked just above me. 3-2 very close except G5. From G4 i got into the zone, attacking confidently with my BH as well. it was a very good match. we were 1-1 before this encounter but last time i played him last and was exhausted.

lost 4th match to a much higher ranked leftie player. I was totally lost on his half long serve. it was low with side spin, but it looked really side-backspin to me but actually it was side-top and i put those half long serves out trying to loop them. my serve game was a disaster too. one to forget about. got totally trashed

5th match was the highlight of the day where i played the 5th highest guy , probably 400 ranking points above.
I was in the zone from the first point, and played really fantastic during 4 games, I couldnt believe i made all those shots and that i could stay so composed, focused and positive. By far, I never ever played that well even in practice matches. alas it was only 2-2, I missed my chance in G3 where he had a bit of luck there. G5 the bubble popped from the start. i lost 2-3 (+12, -7, -10, 9, -3). I didn't bring my tripod to film it unfortunately. Everyone was watching as the schedule was late, it was very exciting to play in those conditions.

6th match i played the bottom player but he is my kryptonite. lost 0-3 last week, and today was 1-3. i had notes on how to play against him but "forgot" to read them. my mind wasn't clear after the previous match there was no pause in between. He's LP penholder push blocker but his BH block / counter is very good, i played too much here. Strangely when i went home, i noticed the referee put in the wrong result, so it was my lucky day as the system doesn't allow reversals...

very disappointed not to have won that 5th match, but maybe i'll finally this kind of wins soon.

 

[NextLevel]

Got back to work so you all will be spared my.musings for a while. Still training once a week or less lol.

 

[Der_Echte]

And on the day of the end of govt shut down none the less.

 

[NextLevel]

Played a tournament today. Two events, U2250 and Open. Will put some notes on the matches in chronological order

U2250

First match: Played a kid that I lost to the last time I played him 0-3. It was a match that changed my approach to TT going forward, I promised to play athletic TT goijg forward against kids, win or lose, I was pretty annoyed in that loss that I kept missing a lot of shots. This tike I arrived at the venue about 15 mins early so I managed to get a good warmup (lucky a good player who wasn't playing was willing to hit with me). Went down in thr first game but made a massive comeback to win at deuce. Won the second game easily. Third game, I missed a few shots and went into a large deficit. Clawed back but still lost the game. Had a back and forth fourth but I managed to get hot at thr end and close it out. My forehand worked really well in this march.

Second match: vs an unrated player who was given his estimated rating because he lost to an 1800 player. I couldn't do much with his serves and physicality. Lost the first game. Did better in the second but lost the last two games getting massively outplayed and wondering how someone could have estimated him at 1900. Organizer explained he was likely between 1900 and ,2000 and they went with the lower end because he had lost to another player I was also capable of losing to in the Wild West of Texas TT. Great estimating guys!

Third match: played a guy I have beaten in the past. He can play j-pen or shake hand and usually has a ferocious forehand but a shaky backhand. I usually find it easy to play such players but today, he got a boost because he figured out I struggled against heavy no-spin pushes to the forehand. I kept trying to drive them but I just didnt have the dwell Iwas looking for to catch them and I never made the mental adjustment so I lost that one 1-3. Unfortunately thr first kid beat him 3-0 so I was eliminated on tie breaks.

OPEN:

One player didnt show up do I had a group with 3 players.

Fourth match: The first was against a guy i usually beat but who had a variety of shots and serves including tricks and hand switches. Something about being Iranian... I tried changing shoes to see whether that would help but it sucked and after losing thr first game at 9, I went to change back to my prior shoes. Got some tips from a friend which helped. My thumb acted up periodically when thr ball hit my hand. Hope this doesnt last forever as it was a recurring and painful theme. I won the next three games just fighting to be more consistent and getting gifted serve misses and also making some lucky gets on my part.

Fifth match was against a kid who i have beaten the last few times we played but he beat me when we played at a home club of sorts. While it is a matter of time i try to take my advantages over the kids as far as I can. The kid still doesn't serve and play out of backspin but he is very athletic and runs down a lot of balls and hits good forehands. Sometimes he hits surprising backhand counters but that can break down. Again my forehand hit some pretty good shots and I got some really good opportunities off fast long topspin serves into the backhand. Won a close first game, won the second game going away, the kid put in some extra effort to win the third game, but I managed to close it out in the 4th.

Sixth match: having topped the group, I got a second place guy from another group. This guy had played two of my friends earlier so I had sized up his game and decided how I would play him earlier. So it was time to execute. His primary MO on serve was to roll a no spin serve down the middle of the table. At the lower levels, most players are used to lifting backspin and driving topspin and no spin gets treated as one of these by unsuspecting players and gets missed repeatedly. Initially I tried to spin the serve softly and I saw that he was willing to risk attacking it hard and I didn't like that. Then I decided to move my big butt to fet my forehand into position and drive the ball with thick brush. The first time I did it, the ball just zoomed and I dont remember feeling that crashing feeling of thick topspin in a while. It felt addictive so I kept doing it. Some people watching started looking in amazement at the vapor trail and sounds of the loops lol. So I also started serving backspin, and if he pushed long as he inevitably did, I went out of my way to attack hard. Sometimes he used a bit more guile and sidespin so I didnt always get easy opportunities but I largely brought the hammer as much as I could. I lost the 3rd game as he managed to stay close and I probably made some poor choices after 9-9 with the serve, but I managed to win the last 3 points of game 4 from 8-8 with spinny drives on both forehand and backhand.

Seventh match: this was against a young kid that I had never lost to in a rated match but who I hadn't played in over a year in a rated match. He had clearly gotten better but was still approaching the match the way kids do when they have never beaten someone. I knew this would be much harder but was hoping I could get something to work. Historically the kid liked to rally too much and didn't bring pressure. But older and stronger, he now attacks some balls harder. Thd most annoying part of playing him is that sometimes, he drives the ball and the blocks lead to balls falling straight down lol. WTF.... cut a long story short, I managed to get it to 5 games, but in game 5, some of the opening spinny topspins that he was blocking long, he started loop driving and killing them. I think i didn't do a great job of going down the line and need to work on confident redirection with my coach.

No trophies or cash, just over 20k steps and lots of good exercise which was the original goal. Better luck next time if I am training lol.

 

[Tinykin]

The stroke mechanics of this lunge shot in this reminds me of how a player executes a hook serve. It interests me as an option to a fancy attempt at a 'round the net' shot'. The script describes it as backspin but I think it is more side with a little top. Any thoughts?

 

[blahness]

The stroke mechanics of this lunge shot in this reminds me of how a player executes a hook serve. It interests me as an option to a fancy attempt at a 'round the net' shot'. The script describes it as backspin but I think it is more side with a little top. Any thoughts?

This is side + backspin for sure because his bat angle is super open on the followthrough meaning he brushed the bottom half of the ball with force going right + upwards. Ma Lin and Chen Qi loved doing this vs this exact half long FH serve exiting the sides of the table. There is a sidetop version too but the bat angle has be more closed on the followthrough.

 

[Tinykin]

I can see that. I was looking at the bounce. But I wouldn't argue too much based on how the ball 'held up' enough to enable a double bounce.
But funny that you should reply as I remember a few months ago, you advocated that this stroke was suitable for deceptive pushes.

 

[blahness]

I can see that. I was looking at the bounce. But I wouldn't argue too much based on how the ball 'held up' enough to enable a double bounce.
But funny that you should reply as I remember a few months ago, you advocated that this stroke was suitable for deceptive pushes.

Yeah i still use this concept as a fake opening loop against backspin balls that drift long (it doesn't quite work against sidetop serves) - it is quite effective to get people to block into the net especially if you can sell the followthrough better. In this clip, imagine if the guy closed the racket angle (a fake movement) after he brushed the underside of the ball - his opponent would definitely think it is a sidetopspin opening loop and send it to the base of the net. And then when they realise it and open their racket angle for blocking/countering, make an actual opening loop with sidetopspin and see it fly out of the table.

That said, it requires a lot of feeling and imo is a bit on the dark side of TT - opponents will feel frustrated af if they are not reading the contact properly.

 

[andymagata]

Today is exactly 365 days since I visited my local club to test table tennis, slipping around in my socks and nearly blacking out after 30 intense minutes. A year later my muscles and stamina has improved a lot, without being good for that matter, and I have corrected a lot if my misconceptions.

I thought that equipment mattered a lot when you are a beginner. I thought that becoming good in table tennis was a quick transition only limited by your own focus. How wrong!

Thanks to everyone in this forum for contributing to the fun!

 

[IB66]

Nice Andy!!! Keep playing and enjoying!!

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

Another one in the books!

Sunrise TTC SPINDEX Challenge League Night #4 - Last STTC SPINDEX event of 2025!

25 entrants across 4 divisions, ranging from 2150 to beginners.

Any clubs out there, I definitely recommend getting in touch with the MLTT club partner program to learn more about SPINDEX events and MLTT's rating system. Players seem to really like these league events and it's been great for our club.

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