DHS fans unite!

[longle]

what is really challenging for amateurs because BH stroke is compact (required great technique, and we should always be in position and in time and in front of the ball) comparing to FH one and you need to generate a lot of power with bigger, slower, head/blade.
I would love to see all those amateurs who make fast transition BH<>FH with 968 family blades and sticky BH rubbers and they are consistent with their shots on both wings
Of course, everyone can use and play whatever they want. No one can forbid it, but sometimes it's worth considering whether we're not creating problems for ourselves.

I'm using Hurricane King 3, I guess it can be literally put in the same league as 968 family

I have to agree putting H3 on both sides requires tremendous footwork - you have to always lower your stance in the match and that's physically demanding

 

[mihalichtheone]

what is really challenging for amateurs because BH stroke is compact (required great technique, and we should always be in position and in time and in front of the ball) comparing to FH one and you need to generate a lot of power with bigger, slower, head/blade.
I would love to see all those amateurs who make fast transition BH<>FH with 968 family blades and sticky BH rubbers and they are consistent with their shots on both wings
Of course, everyone can use and play whatever they want. No one can forbid it, but sometimes it's worth considering whether we're not creating problems for ourselves.

Exactly why I switched back to ZJK ALC from w968. Sure, w968 has greater potential, but I can do proper shots much less frequently than with outer alc blades with the same rubbers (h3 fh, d09c/h3 37 bh, boosted of course).

One of the coolest aspects where w968 shines is top spin against top spin. It's easy and effortless, the blade bends and the ball just goes to the other side. With outer alcs the angle must be much more precise with h3, although much easier with bty/esn rubbers.

edit: so now I am back to ZJK ALC with boosted h3 prov BS FH and d09c unboosted BH, works well and my winrate went (much) higher. Although internal feeling of disappointment in the fact that I am not capable enough to play w968 is kinda depressing

edit2: and yes, I tried w968 for 2 months, so I had time to adjust

 

[ttarc]

Yeah, only few and they switched not too long ago also, they used to play EU/Japanese rubbers. Well, point is, I am sure that probably no one here has as good enough technique to make most of that rubber on backhand. Not worth it. I am gonna be switching to Dignics 09c on backhand also because no matter how much I improve my backhand technique, it's incredibly unforgiving and I cannot generate the amount of spin that I want with Hurricane 3

What's in general more demanding to play with? A rubber with a softer sponge or one with a harder sponge (37° H3(N) is similar to good old Sriver or Tackiness D but D09C around 40 or 41 DHS/Shore A)? A slower rubber or a faster rubber? Where is the probability higher to be in position to execute a proper stroke during a rally (except say e.g. lobbing and getting into position for a counter attack)? Closer to the table or further back?

For me D09C is more demanding than H3(N) 37/38 on BH. D09C is faster, less controlled and a lot more demanding when trying to engage the sponge. Without engaging the sponge it's a bit easier to get some quality out of D09C compared to H3 in some situations but that doesn't outweigh the disadvantages of such hard sponged rubbers on BH.

And they use W/Q/S968 type of blades, those who use Viscaria type of blades mostly use D05/09C rubbers. I don’t know if we should find here any coincidence or it means something or nothing🤷‍♂️

Sponsorship? Afaik players are required to use at least one Butterfly/DHS rubber (that's more or less the reason why Ovtcharov switched from Donic to Butterfly). Will be interesting to see if Liang Jingkun starts using any Loki rubber

I am definitely FH oriented. in a practice session i twiddled and was trying the prov OS h3n on my backhand and i was making some pretty good rips, but that was 40 degrees. I know my 40 degree and 41 degree both play differently, although with booster i can get them pretty close. Do they only make the 38 degree in prov? not 37 degree in prov red? i cant seem to find on aliexpress. if you have a good link for me, please share.

Quite expensive but HWSPORT sells all 37 variants (commercial, provincial, national, 2.1 mm and 2.15 mm)

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005439015436.html

Professional Table Tennis Store sells provincial 2.1 mm and 2.15 mm
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008387151811.html

AliDH Store currently just 2.15 mm https://aliexpress.com/item/32907770352.html

TT-Japan just provincial 2.1 mm

PROVINCIAL NEO HURRICANE 3 RED 37 DEGREE [pnh337degree] - 6,000円 : TT-JAPAN TABLE TENNIS STORE TOMIOKA OF JAPAN

TT-JAPAN PROVINCIAL NEO HURRICANE 3 RED 37 DEGREE [pnh337degree] - For provincial team players. For Back side. 37 degree soft sponge.

tt-japan.net

 

[StreamOfWater]

What's in general more demanding to play with? A rubber with a softer sponge or one with a harder sponge (37° H3(N) is similar to good old Sriver or Tackiness D but D09C around 40 or 41 DHS/Shore A)? A slower rubber or a faster rubber? Where is the probability higher to be in position to execute a proper stroke during a rally (except say e.g. lobbing and getting into position for a counter attack)? Closer to the table or further back?

For me D09C is more demanding than H3(N) 37/38 on BH. D09C is faster, less controlled and a lot more demanding when trying to engage the sponge. Without engaging the sponge it's a bit easier to get some quality out of D09C compared to H3 in some situations but that doesn't outweigh the disadvantages of such hard sponged rubbers on BH.



Sponsorship? Afaik players are required to use at least one Butterfly/DHS rubber (that's more or less the reason why Ovtcharov switched from Donic to Butterfly). Will be interesting to see if Liang Jingkun starts using any Loki rubber



Quite expensive but HWSPORT sells all 37 variants (commercial, provincial, national, 2.1 mm and 2.15 mm)

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005439015436.html

Professional Table Tennis Store sells provincial 2.1 mm and 2.15 mm
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008387151811.html

AliDH Store currently just 2.15 mm https://aliexpress.com/item/32907770352.html

TT-Japan just provincial 2.1 mm

PROVINCIAL NEO HURRICANE 3 RED 37 DEGREE [pnh337degree] - 6,000円 : TT-JAPAN TABLE TENNIS STORE TOMIOKA OF JAPAN

TT-JAPAN PROVINCIAL NEO HURRICANE 3 RED 37 DEGREE [pnh337degree] - For provincial team players. For Back side. 37 degree soft sponge.

tt-japan.net

It doesn't make sense that Dignics 09c would be harder to engage, lol. It's softer, so it must be some placebo for you

 

[doppelmoral]

It doesn't make sense that Dignics 09c would be harder to engage, lol. It's softer, so it must be some placebo for you

d09c should be around 52-54 degree on ESN scale
hurricane 3 neo 37 degree should be around 46-48 on ESN scale

d09c definitely feels harder than h3 37

 

[StreamOfWater]

d09c should be around 52-54 degree on ESN scale
hurricane 3 neo 37 degree should be around 46-48 on ESN scale

d09c definitely feels harder than h3 37

Oh, my bad. You are right

 

[ttarc]

It doesn't make sense that Dignics 09c would be harder to engage, lol. It's softer, so it must be some placebo for you

The topsheet is softer which might give this impression. There's a great video of Fan Zhendong doing backhands against backspin showing how much he has to work for quality shots

Normal speed looks effortless.,.

 

[BlotOnPaper]

d09c should be around 52-54 degree on ESN scale
hurricane 3 neo 37 degree should be around 46-48 on ESN scale

d09c definitely feels harder than h3 37

Yes, this is correct. But hardness is not directly correlated with "ease of engage". I played with 09c on backhand for 1,5 years and for shakehand i absolutely love it on BH.

You can easily engage the sponge just by playing more direct stroke with fast wrist engage, more in the ball, not around the ball. You still get a lot of spin, but more importantly, at least in my experience, you get more control over the placement with really great speed. Short or long, left or right, it is really ease to controll. With more brushing motion and stroke going less direct you get a bit more spin, but i really can not understand how to play like this consistently with good placement.

I tried friends setups with hurricane player edition OS, and it was amazingly hard to accelerate the ball on BH, especially on backhand flicks. It was much harder to engage the sponge in the similar way, so it was like "hit really good or miss entirely" with my technic, oriented for 09c and other ESN rubbers(i do not consider 09c a full hybrid, it's more of a grippy tensor). All of them are FH oriented players, so for them BH is more of the tool for initiation or play on the table, and not tool for winning points, like for me. So they really like it and i don't.

Now i'm playing Cpen and 09c is a bit more difficult to use than on shakehand, so i will try Dignics 05 and maybe Xiom J&H Z52,5. But it can be a blade problem, because with SH i used blades like Lin Yun Ju SuperZLC and YuanJian GanJiang Sword and they are stiff and fast, i do not like this kind of blades for penhold. But Dynasty Carbon is too soft for me, who score a lot from my RPB, it's difficult to engage the carbon on shorter strokes.

Now i'm waiting my DHS N301(83,5 gr, 5,87 mm), it arrived in my country and now being delivered to me. My skyline 3 national neo got stopped on the border, so i ordered Wang Chuqin player edition Hurricane to try, so skyline will be waiting for the right time. So my next setup would be DHS N301 + Wang Chuqin Hurricane player edition + Dignics 05 CNT.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes, this is correct. But hardness is not directly correlated with "ease of engage". I played with 09c on backhand for 1,5 years and for shakehand i absolutely love it on BH.

You can easily engage the sponge just by playing more direct stroke with fast wrist engage, more in the ball, not around the ball. You still get a lot of spin, but more importantly, at least in my experience, you get more control over the placement with really great speed. Short or long, left or right, it is really ease to controll. With more brushing motion and stroke going less direct you get a bit more spin, but i really can not understand how to play like this consistently with good placement.

I tried friends setups with hurricane player edition OS, and it was amazingly hard to accelerate the ball on BH, especially on backhand flicks. It was much harder to engage the sponge in the similar way, so it was like "hit really good or miss entirely" with my technic, oriented for 09c and other ESN rubbers(i do not consider 09c a full hybrid, it's more of a grippy tensor). All of them are FH oriented players, so for them BH is more of the tool for initiation or play on the table, and not tool for winning points, like for me. So they really like it and i don't.

Now i'm playing Cpen and 09c is a bit more difficult to use than on shakehand, so i will try Dignics 05 and maybe Xiom J&H Z52,5. But it can be a blade problem, because with SH i used blades like Lin Yun Ju SuperZLC and YuanJian GanJiang Sword and they are stiff and fast, i do not like this kind of blades for penhold. But Dynasty Carbon is too soft for me, who score a lot from my RPB, it's difficult to engage the carbon on shorter strokes.

Now i'm waiting my DHS N301(83,5 gr, 5,87 mm), it arrived in my country and now being delivered to me. My skyline 3 national neo got stopped on the border, so i ordered Wang Chuqin player edition Hurricane to try, so skyline will be waiting for the right time. So my next setup would be DHS N301 + Wang Chuqin Hurricane player edition + Dignics 05 CNT.

I'm not so sure that that's correct. I've measured them with a durometer, 09c is about the same hardness as a heavily boosted H3 37, and softer than a boosted H3 38. Of course, I can only measure sponge + topsheet, but numbers don't lie.

 

[BlotOnPaper]

I'm not so sure that that's correct. I've measured them with a durometer, 09c is about the same hardness as a heavily boosted H3 37, and softer than a boosted H3 38. Of course, I can only measure sponge + topsheet, but numbers don't lie.

In comparison sponge + topsheet it can be close, topsheet on 09c is softer, so sponge and topsheet can balance each other out and give close numbers. I was talking purely about sponge hardness. I think topsheet elasticity really affects "ease of engage", so we probably need more measurments.

Also, you used commercial or national version? They are different both in sponge and in topsheet, i was talking about player edition OS Hurricanes.

 

[disaster3]

Holla, very satisfied with the H3 701s 41 on FH and H3 38 Ma Long on BH - they are very light, powerful and feels denser than version of the same hardness

View attachment 35612
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710S version of sponge is something from personal DHS rubbers or it can be found also in Prov or National version of normal DHS H3Neo BS rubbers?

 

[longle]

710S version of sponge is something from personal DHS rubbers or it can be found also in Prov or National version of normal DHS H3Neo BS rubbers?

I believe it's exclusive for Prov players. I've never seen that version in public Prov and Nat versions

 

[andzejgolot]

The guy is jealous about it.

 

[disaster3]

For sure 👍

 

[disaster3]

I believe it's exclusive for Prov players. I've never seen that version in public Prov and Nat versions

Thanks @longle wasn’t sure if there is some kind of batch of these rubbers that could be identified by bar codes or something or this type of sponge is used only for personal rubbers. It‘s clear now. So far I’m in transition from Prov to Nat version and I’m curious whether I feel the difference. Maybe I would be interested in personal rubbers if they were more available in specs I’m playing now and as far I‘m aware of i should look for some lads rubbers (Qian Tianyi or Chen Xingtong) . They use 2.1mm 40* BS, the rest of ladies use harder ones and the men in CNT, too. So not so easy to get one. Even on Prott they are unavailable.

 

[JackJohnson]

Thanks @longle wasn’t sure if there is some kind of batch of these rubbers that could be identified by bar codes or something or this type of sponge is used only for personal rubbers. It‘s clear now. So far I’m in transition from Prov to Nat version and I’m curious whether I feel the difference. Maybe I would be interested in personal rubbers if they were more available in specs I’m playing now and as far I‘m aware of i should look for some lads rubbers (Qian Tianyi or Chen Xingtong) . They use 2.1mm 40* BS, the rest of ladies use harder ones and the men in CNT, too. So not so easy to get one. Even on Prott they are unavailable.

There are 2 reddit posts from a guy called sah4r. He might also be on TTD but he mentions about how to buy them on taobao using a third party service with the links as well.

 

[disaster3]

There are 2 reddit posts from a guy called sah4r. He might also be on TTD but he mentions about how to buy them on taobao using a third party service with the links as well.

Here some kind of guidelines but I’ve lost in the middle of story and it looks like rocket science for me. 🤣

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/ordering-chinese-market-equipment-from-gan-on-taobao-my-experience-from-europe.36923/

 

[JackJohnson]

Here some kind of guidelines but I’ve lost in the middle of story and it looks like rocket science for me. 🤣

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/ordering-chinese-market-equipment-from-gan-on-taobao-my-experience-from-europe.36923/

The reddit posts he uses Sugargoo and the good thing about that service is if someone else has ordered that same item from that seller you can also view the images of it so you know if the seller will send the actual item or not.

The reddit posts also has the links he purchased from so you know if a seller is trustworthy or not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tabletennis/s/tCFMYO7OtQ

https://www.reddit.com/r/tabletennis/s/p54VUwzvSw

 

[longle]

Thanks @longle wasn’t sure if there is some kind of batch of these rubbers that could be identified by bar codes or something or this type of sponge is used only for personal rubbers. It‘s clear now. So far I’m in transition from Prov to Nat version and I’m curious whether I feel the difference. Maybe I would be interested in personal rubbers if they were more available in specs I’m playing now and as far I‘m aware of i should look for some lads rubbers (Qian Tianyi or Chen Xingtong) . They use 2.1mm 40* BS, the rest of ladies use harder ones and the men in CNT, too. So not so easy to get one. Even on Prott they are unavailable.

yeah, playing with personal rubbers is a good experience, but "personal" that means in most cases it won't suit everyone's playing style.

for example the H3 Ma Long 38 and the H3 37 701s on my BH felt great in training, but in real matches the cheaper H3 neo market 38 gave me much higher ball landing rate.

from Prov to Nat, yes you will feel some differences, let's see if you like it. For me it's not worth spending the extra money.

 

[Conehead]

Today I glued a Ma Long Player H3N boosted 2x with Haifu National Yellow for my forehand on the W968. Can't wait to test it on Tuesday.