Easy-To-Use Tensor Rubbers

[turbozed]

Xiom Vega Intro vs Yinhe Moon

Xiom Vega Intro has somewhat of a durability problem for me. I'm using it as the BH on a YSE and have maybe 10 hours of play time and about 500 hits with it on a ball spinner trainer. If I hit the ball spinner trainer a bit wrong it catches a piece of plastic wrong and tears the topsheet easily. I now have about 4 tears in the topsheet and can only imagine what contact with the table would do.

In comparison, I've also used Yinhe Moon to train my BH on the ball spinner as well as Yinhe Mercury 2 on FH. With the topsheet of these rubbers, there is no tearing or surface damage on my mis-hits.

To me as a beginner, Yinhe Moon feels pretty close to Xiom Vega Intro in terms of speed. I can't comment on spin since my BH is mostly flat drives and blocks (though I can lift backspin with it in training). I know most people would not consider it an beginner tensor (Yinhe markets its tech MaxTense) but Yinhe Moon is what I'm sticking with as my intro 'tensor' rubber for a bit. I ordered the Yinhe Moon 12 Blue and will test that out too (was curious because there were no reviews and it's blue!)

 

[LoopingLoui]

Still no one who has experience with both, Andro GTT 45 and Nittaku Factive? 🤔

I found this page which compares both and they sound very similar in terms of spin, speed and control: https://www.spintesters.com/best-intermediate-table-tennis-rubbers-test/

I’m currently considering Andro GTT45 on FH and GTT40 on BH with Yasaka Sweden Extra blade but not sure of it. Any thoughts? Should I just yolo it? 😅🏓

 

[turbozed]

Still no one who has experience with both, Andro GTT 45 and Nittaku Factive? 🤔

I found this page which compares both and they sound very similar in terms of spin, speed and control: https://www.best-tabletennis.com/best-intermediate-table-tennis-rubbers/

I’m currently considering Andro GTT45 on FH and GTT40 on BH with Yasaka Sweden Extra blade but not sure of it. Any thoughts? Should I just yolo it? 😅🏓

They're both roughly the same degrees of hardness and are linear intro tensor rubbers from the sound of it. I doubt you will be able to tell the difference between the two unless you are a super advanced player. In which case you'd probably be playing with a faster rubber anyway. ​​I'd just go with the cheaper of the two options. I personally like the Nittaku since I like their products and the purple sponge looks cool.

GTT 45 on FH and GTT 40 on BH sounds fine to me too. Same topsheet and slightly different hardness sponge sounds like a good formula for developing players, if that's what you are.

The YSE is a relatively slow and controlled blade so a low catapult control tensor should make it very easy to play.

 

[LoopingLoui]

@turbozed Sounds great! Thanks so much! GTT45 and GTT40 it is! Will post my experiences once it’s arrived and I played couple strokes with it 😊

 

[Николай Петров]

Most easy to use rubber that I have experienced is Butterfly Tenergy 05 fx and by easy to use I mean it give crazy spin and speed with very little performance or movement from you that is what I understand with easy to use you can make every hard ball go on the table with good quality without good technique but it lacks end speed and is slow away from the table but I guess that wont be a problem for you.

 

[brokenball]

tensor is just a marketing term. It doesn't mean anything in the TT level context. It isn't a number that you can measure or put into a formula or the formula itself.

 

[igorponger]

tensor is just a marketing term. It doesn't mean anything in the TT level context. It isn't a number that you can measure or put into a formula or the formula itself.

Not quite so. Technically, any foamed rubber material with Schob resilience index 40 or above is perceived as having the trampoline effect.. generally known as tensor effect. "Tensor" is a patented name exclusively owned by ESN GmBH/ Yes, the "high-resilience" rubbers (aka tensors) are very demanding ones for overall velocity of the strokes. Playing "accurate" strokes with a HR rubber is rather impossible. Chinese do not favour the rubbers with tensor effect, nor they manufacturing tensors domestically. GD is the only China factory to supply High Tension products abroad.

 

[turbozed]

tensor is just a marketing term. It doesn't mean anything in the TT level context. It isn't a number that you can measure or put into a formula or the formula itself.

Are there different ways of achieving a tensioned rubber effect or is it essentially the same method no matter which manufacturer is producing it?

For example, does ESN create a "tensor" rubber using the same method as say Yinhe's "MaxTense" method?

I'm guessing it involves some mechanical stretching of the rubber prior to the sponge being attached? If so, does this mean that denser and heavier sponges can allow for more stretching of the rubber?
​​​

 

[brokenball]

Not quite so. Technically, any foamed rubber material with Schob resilience index 40 or above is perceived as having the trampoline effect..

Where did you get that information?
So in your mind, a tensor rubber is a rubber with higher COR? So you would call T05 a tensor rubber?

generally known as tensor effect. "Tensor" is a patented name exclusively owned by ESN GmBH/

So it is just a marketing term

Yes, the "high-resilience" rubbers (aka tensors) are very demanding ones for overall velocity of the strokes.

Why? What makes them demanding? What does the velocity of stroke have to do with it? What about the short game?
What is so resilient? Does that mean it will last a long time? How does that relate to H3 or T05? Where is the data.

Playing "accurate" strokes with a HR rubber is rather impossible.

What is a HR rubber? Why is it hard to play "accurate" strokes? When you swing, the paddle moves as you want it to move. The rubber makes no difference although a slightly different stroke is required for each rubber because they have different CORs.

Chinese do not favour the rubbers with tensor effect, nor they manufacturing tensors domestically. GD is the only China factory to supply High Tension products abroad.

When I was taking lessons from a Chinese coach he used H3 on the FH and T05 on the BH. That was rather standard for the Chinese at that time. I played with his paddle. At the time I had my TBS with S2 on each side. I didn't think the coaches H3 and T05 on a TB ALC was much different.

Tensor is just a marketing term. It has nothing to do with tension. Do you know what a tensor is?
igorponger, I thought you are/were and engineer and above being influenced by TT propaganda.

Finally, the Schob device should be able to measure the normal COR.

 

[brokenball]

Are there different ways of achieving a tensioned rubber effect or is it essentially the same method no matter which manufacturer is producing it?

What is tensioned? What holds the rubber in tension.
Show me a formula where tension is used to calculate the spin or speed after impact
I have been asking that question for many years now and NO ONE has answered that.

For example, does ESN create a "tensor" rubber using the same method as say Yinhe's "MaxTense" method?

Yes, the put the rubber in the wrapper and write tensor on it. It is just marketing.

I'm guessing it involves some mechanical stretching of the rubber prior to the sponge being attached?

The why don't the rubbers curl up. To be tensioned, something must hold it in tension. I don't know why this is so hard to understand
Again show me a formula where tension is used in a formula.

If so, does this mean that denser and heavier sponges can allow for more stretching of the rubber?
​​​

????? NO, it would just take more force to stretch it.

The only tension that occurs is when the ball penetrate into the rubber. The ball will stretch the rubber a little. then snap back to its original position/shape, kind of like a trampoline but a trampoline IS tensioned and is held in tension by a frame.

 

[Zwill]

The why don't the rubbers curl up. To be tensioned, something must hold it in tension. I don't know why this is so hard to understand

Why does something need to hold it in tension? So what holds tempered glass in tension? I can buy tempered glass without any frame and it does not curl either.

The only tension that occurs is when the ball penetrate into the rubber. The ball will stretch the rubber a little. then snap back to its original position/shape, kind of like a trampoline but a trampoline IS tensioned and is held in tension by a frame.

So if I stretch my rubber by hand and glue it onto the racket in that stretched state the only thing making the rubber tensioned is when the ball contacts it?
Should I ignore the stretch I did when I glued the rubber on? But according to what you say the blade and the glue should hold the rubber in tension.

 

[brokenball]

Why does something need to hold it in tension? So what holds tempered glass in tension? I can buy tempered glass without any frame and it does not curl either. To be held in tension there must be a force that pulls.

You are comparing apples to oranges.
Tempered glass has an inner and outer part that is achieved by the tempering process. Show me where this is done in a TT rubber. TT rubbers are not tempered. They are not stiff like the tempered glass.
You should look up St Rupert's drop.

So if I stretch my rubber by hand and glue it onto the racket in that stretched state the only thing making the rubber tensioned is when the ball contacts it?
Should I ignore the stretch I did when I glued the rubber on? But according to what you say the blade and the glue should hold the rubber in tension.[

The wood is holding it in tension then. The rubber will shrink over time.

Now show me a formula for calculating the speed or spin after impact using tension.

 

[Zwill]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

No, I was asking about tempered glass. You are doing the comparing.

Tempered glass has an inner and outer part that is achieved by the tempering process. Show me where this is done in a TT rubber. TT rubbers are not tempered.

You are not providing any proof of your claim. But as far as I know, rubbers are vulcanized which is also a heat treatment. I don't have ESN's recipe, do you?
However there are rubbers mainly Chinese-made where the rubber topsheet is made of 2 separate parts. H3 topsheet is an example or Yasaka Rising Dragon.

As you can see the rubber is curled out of the package, so there is tension between the topsheet and the sponge.

Speaking of the sponge is it out of the realm of possibility that the topsheet is stretched and then glued onto the sponge? Is it impossible that the sponge would keep the topsheet in tension?

The wood is holding it in tension then. The rubber will shrink over time.

I'm sorry, what would make it shrink? The rubber will shrink on the wood? That is nuts.

 

[turbozed]

The only tension that occurs is when the ball penetrate into the rubber. The ball will stretch the rubber a little. then snap back to its original position/shape, kind of like a trampoline but a trampoline IS tensioned and is held in tension by a frame.

Honestly, I know close to nothing about this topic of tensioned rubber which is why my comment was all questions and zero assertions. So I'm a bit puzzled by the argumentative response.

I understand that the elasticity of a ball contacting the rubber will cause tension in the rubber topsheet and sponge and this would store the incoming energy of the ball.

When I first heard of the term "tensor" and that rubbers were pre-tensioned, my mind automatically assumed there was mechanical stretching of the rubber to preload the tension effect of the ball contacting the rubber.

And the only candidate for doing this from my understanding of physics is that they would have to mechanically stretch the rubber and then glue the sponge onto it while the rubber was being stretched. The glue and the sponge trying to maintain its shape would therefore be forces 'holding onto' this stretched rubber. Any "technology" claimed by any manufacturer would just be this process as opposed to the old process of not stretching the top sheet at all and just gluing it right onto the sponge.

Again, I'm not claiming this is how it works in reality, but it was my best guess at what "pre-tensioned" and "tensor" meant. It seems like at least one person in this thread seems to agree. I'm unsure if you're claiming the above to be physically impossible or whether you know from inside knowledge that this is not the case. Either way, thanks for the reply.

 

[igorponger]

Some more relevant knowledge on the tensor history to content your curiosity to the full
- in making their tensor rubbers ESN happily adopted the earlier patented formula of 1964 as having been invented by an American chemist engineer and happily used for the syntetic elastomer magic balls bouncy as hell. Incidentally, chinese GD manufacturer made good use of this american formula as well.

https://youtu.be/m0_PjJBC8gU

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Honestly, I know close to nothing about this topic of tensioned rubber which is why my comment was all questions and zero assertions. So I'm a bit puzzled by the argumentative response.

That is just 1 member for you here.
He has a history of not agreeing with things because there has been no scientific results proven to justify the "truth" for millions of users.
So everything he is trying to do here is forcing you to provide the data to confirm the words in this forum.
Honestly speaking, I have not known or met a table tennis community who has the time and funds, to go and take his equipment into a lab and do tests (and I have engage with near 20 countries in person) and get the data to keep this one member happy.

Funny enough, when we use rubbers like T05, the thing that makes it great is the tensor sponge, of which Butterfly calls it Spring Sponge technology.
Many companies has been trying to mimic this, including the likes of ESN, but they are close, but not really there yet.
Spring Sponge is so good that its 1 rubber/sponge/technology can last the life time of many ESN generations (in other words, ESN needs to come up with something better ever year to get close to it, while T05 has been around for a really long time).
Having said that, Butterfly can increase the price, and consumers will just need to pay.
ESN needs to spend so much money to catch up.

Science.
How I see this whole science debate - the really good gurus are actually in the R&D team of these companies making the next generation rubbers/sponges.
The next tier would be on forums trying to talk science to people and saying the above doesn't exist and it is just some words on a packaging.

If you do get great science people, they will actually use their skills and making a change to practical elements of life, then just use theory in a classroom.
IE invent a non tensions table tennis rubber that can beat the DHS H3 and T05 of the world, with using GAS treatment, or simply non treatments of the products (ie not using booster oils) and last a life time. This kind of scientist will deserve a nobel science prize

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

When I was taking lessons from a Chinese coach he used H3 on the FH and T05 on the BH. That was rather standard for the Chinese at that time. I played with his paddle. At the time I had my TBS with S2 on each side. I didn't think the coaches H3 and T05 on a TB ALC was much different.

I actually wonder (with all due respect to BB).
Is this the ultimate answer to all the question here?

S2 is the same as H3 and T05?

 

[LoopingLoui]

As promised earlier, here are my first impressions:

Setup

• FH: Andro GTT45 2.0mm
• BH: Andro GTT40 2.0mm
• Blade: Andro Timber 5 All Black
• Edge tape: 12mm Nittaku Super Shock Guard + blank Scotch Fineline tape (for debranding) ;-)

Note that I opted against the Yasaka Sweden Extra and got the Andro Timber 5 All Black instead mainly for look/style reasons because I already have black+blue rubbers and I wanted the blade to go with the same color scheme. Also, something that I really liked about the Timber 5 is that is has this metal badge on the handle (at least I think it is metal but not sure?). It gives the whole thing a premium feel though it‘s rather an affordable blade.

Initial impressions

So far I played 2 times with this new racket and I'm still getting used to it. What I can definitely tell is that there is only veeery little catapult to it, close to none, so control is good. That's fine for me as I am only getting used to tensioned rubbers. The topsheets are also fairly grippy, so no complaints here.

Sponges

Both sponges are quite firm. I noticed that especially with the GTT40 which is marketed as being the softer variant compared to GTT45. Pressing my thumb against both I can barely feel any difference. Tbh I would probably put both rubbers into the "medium" hardness category. There are certainly softer sponges out there than the GTT40.

One minor thing I noticed: The GT45 and GTT40 have different sponge colors. One is yellow and the other one is orange. Not a deal breaker but something I thought should be mentioned if aesthetics is important to you.

Overall thoughts

All in all I'd say I'm quite happy with my choice and I'll keep playing this setup for a while. Might replace the backhand (GTT40) with something a little softer maybe some day but time will tell

 

[Equaaz]

In order to redirect the conversation a little towards the initial subject, we can consider a rubbers as "easy-to-use" when it is a modern rubber, easy to handle, with a slight catapulting effect resulting from a chemical treatment applied by the manufacturer. They are generally designed to learn about rubbers with energy storage. They are the compromise between the control of the old generation and the dynamism of modern equipment.

For exemple :
Tibhar Vari Spin D.Tech is the modern version of the original Vari Spin, with energy storage (here Tensor technologie)

@LoopingLoui Thanks for your review

 

[dingyibvs]

Honestly, I know close to nothing about this topic of tensioned rubber which is why my comment was all questions and zero assertions. So I'm a bit puzzled by the argumentative response.

I understand that the elasticity of a ball contacting the rubber will cause tension in the rubber topsheet and sponge and this would store the incoming energy of the ball.

When I first heard of the term "tensor" and that rubbers were pre-tensioned, my mind automatically assumed there was mechanical stretching of the rubber to preload the tension effect of the ball contacting the rubber.

And the only candidate for doing this from my understanding of physics is that they would have to mechanically stretch the rubber and then glue the sponge onto it while the rubber was being stretched. The glue and the sponge trying to maintain its shape would therefore be forces 'holding onto' this stretched rubber. Any "technology" claimed by any manufacturer would just be this process as opposed to the old process of not stretching the top sheet at all and just gluing it right onto the sponge.

Again, I'm not claiming this is how it works in reality, but it was my best guess at what "pre-tensioned" and "tensor" meant. It seems like at least one person in this thread seems to agree. I'm unsure if you're claiming the above to be physically impossible or whether you know from inside knowledge that this is not the case. Either way, thanks for the reply.

That doesn't really make sense though, you need something rigid to hold the tension without deforming. Sponge is elastic, it wouldn't be able to stay flat if it's under tension (topsheet would apply tension back onto the sponge, equal but opposite reaction).