Extreme Table Tennis Training with weights and UFC masks!

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Yes correct makes him conscious of his breathing,
Ankle weights because he personally doesn't not get into the right position to excute a high quality shot. This makes him concious of his feet. Once removed this except ise was done effortlessly
Ah, so the point of the mask and the weights is not increasing lung or muscle development, but to make him conscious?

So in other words, he can really feel when he's breathing compared to not breathing because he's got the mask on, and the weight on his legs makes him better feel where his legs are?

If that's right, why such an unconventional method? Did nothing else work or is this a very effective method for this problem?
 
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Hmm, well it is quite "extreme". Not sure if I would have thought of it myself.

Recently I had some minor shoulder pain, but because I am an idiot, I tried to play anyway because it was not great or constant pain, hah. Turns out that being relaxed in my strokes completely took away all of the pain, and the shoulder problem went away very soon. I was far too tense, and probably injured my shoulder due to it.

So, sometimes it seems good to go to the source of the problem.

Thanks a lot for your views.
 
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yes, please stop killing each other, its just a forum.....
every coach has his/her own methodology and there is no right or wrong
there is also no real "text book" too

I have experience with weights, but not with the mask
From my view, the weights can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing - I prefer using other methods to fix movement/footwork, and I only use weights on players who have developed the footwork game already and wanting them to add speed, only then will I use weights.

I'm sure the coach here know his player more than me with a short video clip.
The mask is still interesting imo
 
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I saw an ad for a mask designed to improve lung capacity by making it harder to breath which is what I guess this is. Not sure the idea makes good physiological sense or not for conditioning. Would need to see an independent well controlled study. (Maybe they exist, I didn't look).

But forgetting to breath during a point is a really common problem. This could help with that.

Have to be careful with leg weights though. Lots of potential for Achilles and plantar fascia injuries. Use with caution.
 
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Hi Silent Rain,
I did speed work also, with these restraints, this is just one exercise. This exercise was specific to this young man. Because when he gets a weak ball he holds his breath and tenses up and generally misses a relatively weak ball. This particular exercise forced him to breath while playing a weak ball.
I hope that makes sense! But yes we also encoprated many other drills alongside these physical restrictions

I have massive problems breathing whilst playing to the point I have to stop sometimes through lack of oxygen, I hold my breath sometimes from the moment I serve until the point is finished. Did he feel the mask helped him with the breathing thing? Interesting
 
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I don't really understand how less air intake would improve lung capacity.

Operational efficiency, perhaps. Being able to take in more breath per inhale or whatever.

Does anyone here know exactly how this works?

The ad on the internet says that those masks simulate the effect of training at high altitude, where oxygen concentration is less. Low oxygen causes the organism to produce more hemoglobin, which improves oxygen delivery to the muscles. Professional endurance athletes use high altitude training very often. The issue with it is that the effects of training at altitude is very tricky. It requires careful planning, otherwise it may do more harm than good.

For example: http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/altitude-training-for-everyone
 
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Who is insulting who? The whole page's been civil.


Also, good job on getting his real name and coach status up!
ahh i just have been seeing lately an awful lot of people calling you out on things when often even if misguided you're doing absolutely nothing wrong (like giving an opinion when asked), questioning and being interested in why a coach is doing something and getting told you're acting a fool seemed a bit silly when no one knew why other than the coach. but if i misread the situation then apologies are needed on my behalf
 
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Guys, please dont get upset with one another, It was a simple exercise to help one of my students focus on his breathing while he plays. It proved beneficial for this particular case and no one was harmed :D. Let's keep it peaceful it was just a UFC mask it's not literally UFC :cool: And Yes, he said he had to focus on his breathing so much that when it was taken off, it felt effortless.
 
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ahh i just have been seeing lately an awful lot of people calling you out on things when often even if misguided you're doing absolutely nothing wrong (like giving an opinion when asked), questioning and being interested in why a coach is doing something and getting told you're acting a fool seemed a bit silly when no one knew why other than the coach. but if i misread the situation then apologies are needed on my behalf

Maybe you're right. Maybe I've overreacted here.
I guess it must have then been one of his other posts that's blown my fuse.

I must admit I do have an issue when people get quite jumpy minded but probably it's just jumpy mindedness due to immaturity.

Well anyhow, i don't like spending so much time with these negative thoughts, but i felt the need to explain why I react how I react.

Guys, please not get upset with one another, It was a simple exercise to help one of my students focus on his breathing while he plays. It proved beneficial for this particular case and no one was harmed ????. Let's keep it peaceful it was just a UFC mask it's not literally UFC ???? And Yes, he said he had to focus on his breathing so much that when it was taken off, it felt effortless.

I showed this vid to my clubmate, and he wants to try it out, but wants to start off with a regular mask like used in hospitals and if that doesn't work out properly maybe then tryout the restriction mask. It took some effort to convince him that his body tension could be from irregular breathing. I first thought it could've been lack of concentration, but it kept reoccuring.

Breath control is totally underrated IMHO, so this could really be the key.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I also want to apologise for escalating on one of your posts. Sorry for the discomfort.
 
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its cool, we are all on the same boat here (TT), lets keep helping each other to be the best we can be.
all the best and good luck with your friend and a regular mask (that could work) keep us posted..
 
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The thing is once you take the mask off, the stimulus that causes the kidneys to make erythrypoietin vanishes. So no increase in red blood cells or hemoglobin. That is why I am a bit skeptical about that part.

But I could easily see how it makes you conscious of breathing while playing

Or you could consciously grunt like Dima.

The ad on the internet says that those masks simulate the effect of training at high altitude, where oxygen concentration is less. Low oxygen causes the organism to produce more hemoglobin, which improves oxygen delivery to the muscles. Professional endurance athletes use high altitude training very often. The issue with it is that the effects of training at altitude is very tricky. It requires careful planning, otherwise it may do more harm than good.

For example: http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/altitude-training-for-everyone
 
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Hi all, loving the discussions. I asked Eli to post his clip on here as I thought it was interesting and quite different to the usual training sessions we see. When I was in China there were a lot of players in the province teams using weights to improve their footwork. Like Tony has said, it should be used for players who already have sufficient footwork. I think the dude in this video has good footwork from what I can see his forehand looks strong. Using the weights will increase new neural pathways which will build the plasticity and connections in his brain. I do think however its important not to overuse these different training techniques.

I also like the mask, it may or may not work, but what I like about it is it just adds huge variety to the training session and the creativeness of it will keep your players engaged. Sometimes training can become tedious or some players lose interest so using creative techniques such as weights can get juniors motivated to practice and keep them on their toes... literally :)
 
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To be fair, I didn't watch the clip. But I did read something said on the thread about the player holding his breath during easy shots, causing him to miss. I'll just use my 8 years of exercise physiology education to make sense of what I'm reading to make an educated guess as to whether it's crazy or pure genius.

Holding your breath is for added strength and is called the Valsalva Maneuver. Wearing this mask is only restricting his ability to breath, and won't change his ability to use the Valsalva. A person who uses Valsalva is trying to exert maximum effort in a short period of time or burst of energy. It adds more stability in the upper body and adds power. The Valsalva can be dangerous for anyone with a heart condition and is generally accepted as a maneuver you shouldn't use. The extra effort this player is trying to add (I'm assuming he's trying to kill the "easy" balls, hence the Valsalva) will play with his timing and cause him to miss. The general cause for missing a shot is poor technique/timing (Assuming you've read the spin/speed of the ball properly). Exerting more force would certainly change the technique or timing. So it sounds like he needs more practice using maximum effort so he can adjust his timing or technique. An old exercise science professor of mine once said, "You really shouldn't try to control breathing when training. Your body will do that instinctively." Also, there appears to be no clinical evidence as to the effectiveness of masks, so I'll reserve judgement on whether or not the mask could increase VO2 max. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen your body can pull from blood to utilize in exercise. Exercise is currently the only proven way to increase VO2 max. However, according to David Blain (famous street magician) he trained to hold his breath for 15 minutes (I don't know exactly how long he actually made it). I think he may even hold the world record for holding one's breath. Each morning/evening he said he would hold his breath without exercise. Over time, his VO2 drastically improved and his resting heart rate fell to Olympic marathon levels (35ish beats per minute). Based on that information, I would think the mask could have some effectiveness in regards to VO2 max.

As for the ankle weights: ankle weights could actually cause injury due to an excessive load capacity on smaller muscles in the legs. There are lateral leg movements in table tennis that some smaller leg muscles/tendons/ligaments aren't built to handle an additional 2 lbs of weight. That kind of stress around the ankles could cause serious strain on some smaller muscles/tendons/ligaments (sartorious muscle for example in regards to lateral rotation of the hip). The player should probably focus on strengthening the legs via resistance training in the weight room to prevent possible injury via the ankle weights.

Crazy or Genius?: Not necessarily crazy, but not a game changer.
 
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To be fair, I didn't watch the clip. But I did read something said on the thread about the player holding his breath during easy shots, causing him to miss. I'll just use my 8 years of exercise physiology education to make sense of what I'm reading to make an educated guess as to whether it's crazy or pure genius.

Holding your breath is for added strength and is called the Valsalva Maneuver. Wearing this mask is only restricting his ability to breath, and won't change his ability to use the Valsalva. A person who uses Valsalva is trying to exert maximum effort in a short period of time or burst of energy. It adds more stability in the upper body and adds power. The Valsalva can be dangerous for anyone with a heart condition and is generally accepted as a maneuver you shouldn't use. The extra effort this player is trying to add (I'm assuming he's trying to kill the "easy" balls, hence the Valsalva) will play with his timing and cause him to miss. The general cause for missing a shot is poor technique/timing (Assuming you've read the spin/speed of the ball properly). Exerting more force would certainly change the technique or timing. So it sounds like he needs more practice using maximum effort so he can adjust his timing or technique. An old exercise science professor of mine once said, "You really shouldn't try to control breathing when training. Your body will do that instinctively." Also, there appears to be no clinical evidence as to the effectiveness of masks, so I'll reserve judgement on whether or not the mask could increase VO2 max. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen your body can pull from blood to utilize in exercise. Exercise is currently the only proven way to increase VO2 max. However, according to David Blain (famous street magician) he trained to hold his breath for 15 minutes (I don't know exactly how long he actually made it). I think he may even hold the world record for holding one's breath. Each morning/evening he said he would hold his breath without exercise. Over time, his VO2 drastically improved and his resting heart rate fell to Olympic marathon levels (35ish beats per minute). Based on that information, I would think the mask could have some effectiveness in regards to VO2 max.

As for the ankle weights: ankle weights could actually cause injury due to an excessive load capacity on smaller muscles in the legs. There are lateral leg movements in table tennis that some smaller leg muscles/tendons/ligaments aren't built to handle an additional 2 lbs of weight. That kind of stress around the ankles could cause serious strain on some smaller muscles/tendons/ligaments (sartorious muscle for example in regards to lateral rotation of the hip). The player should probably focus on strengthening the legs via resistance training in the weight room to prevent possible injury via the ankle weights.

Crazy or Genius?: Not necessarily crazy, but not a game changer.
What's your view on the Valsalva maneuver when lifting weights ie: bench press? Does it ever have a good sport/exercise use?


I've seen it being thrown around that you shouldn't hold your breath when lifting heavy weight, perhaps for good reason.
 
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To be fair, I didn't watch the clip. But I did read something said on the thread about the player holding his breath during easy shots, causing him to miss. I'll just use my 8 years of exercise physiology education to make sense of what I'm reading to make an educated guess as to whether it's crazy or pure genius.

Holding your breath is for added strength and is called the Valsalva Maneuver. Wearing this mask is only restricting his ability to breath, and won't change his ability to use the Valsalva. A person who uses Valsalva is trying to exert maximum effort in a short period of time or burst of energy. It adds more stability in the upper body and adds power. The Valsalva can be dangerous for anyone with a heart condition and is generally accepted as a maneuver you shouldn't use. The extra effort this player is trying to add (I'm assuming he's trying to kill the "easy" balls, hence the Valsalva) will play with his timing and cause him to miss. The general cause for missing a shot is poor technique/timing (Assuming you've read the spin/speed of the ball properly). Exerting more force would certainly change the technique or timing. So it sounds like he needs more practice using maximum effort so he can adjust his timing or technique. An old exercise science professor of mine once said, "You really shouldn't try to control breathing when training. Your body will do that instinctively." Also, there appears to be no clinical evidence as to the effectiveness of masks, so I'll reserve judgement on whether or not the mask could increase VO2 max. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen your body can pull from blood to utilize in exercise. Exercise is currently the only proven way to increase VO2 max. However, according to David Blain (famous street magician) he trained to hold his breath for 15 minutes (I don't know exactly how long he actually made it). I think he may even hold the world record for holding one's breath. Each morning/evening he said he would hold his breath without exercise. Over time, his VO2 drastically improved and his resting heart rate fell to Olympic marathon levels (35ish beats per minute). Based on that information, I would think the mask could have some effectiveness in regards to VO2 max.

As for the ankle weights: ankle weights could actually cause injury due to an excessive load capacity on smaller muscles in the legs. There are lateral leg movements in table tennis that some smaller leg muscles/tendons/ligaments aren't built to handle an additional 2 lbs of weight. That kind of stress around the ankles could cause serious strain on some smaller muscles/tendons/ligaments (sartorious muscle for example in regards to lateral rotation of the hip). The player should probably focus on strengthening the legs via resistance training in the weight room to prevent possible injury via the ankle weights.

Crazy or Genius?: Not necessarily crazy, but not a game changer.

Totaly agree with this.
Although I hate to discourage new ideas and training method, there's just too few evidence to suggest any merit on using UFC mask and ankle weights. Go to the nearest gym twice a week, lift weights and do some plyo. Combined with multiballs, it'd be the safest and the most effective way to improve footwork unless for some reason the ankle weights were used to correct the technical deficiency.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsalva_maneuver

"The Valsalva maneuver or Valsalva manoeuvre is performed by moderately forceful attempted exhalation against a closed airway, usually done by closing one's mouth, pinching one's nose shut while pressing out as if blowing up a balloon. Variations of the maneuver can be used either in medical examination as a test of cardiac function and autonomic nervous control of the heart, or to "clear" the ears and sinuses (that is, to equalize pressure between them) when ambient pressure changes, as in diving, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, or air travel.[1]"

I have to be honest, this description doesn't sound like the guy is doing the valsalva maneuver from this description:

This exercise was specific to this young man. Because when he gets a weak ball he holds his breath and tenses up and generally misses a relatively weak ball. This particular exercise forced him to breath while playing a weak ball.
I hope that makes sense!

And it sounds like the holding of the breath is an unconscious response to stress and that the mask is being used to get the guy to breath while making those attempts on junk balls.

I used the term junk balls on purpose because, even though they seem like they should be easy, they actually are not. Which is probably part of why the guy is getting tense and stressed when he tries to take those junk balls.

And the mask, it sounds like, is to make it so breathing is harder which also makes it harder to accidentally hold your breath.
 
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