Felix the champion

[SFF_lib]

I was gasping for air because it’s been many years since the last penholder took a major title. Ex penholder so can’t help

I would like to start a separate thread.

Against LSD and Harimoto (among the best BH in the world 💪🏼), what do you think are Felix’s advantages? Can penholders ascend to the top once more?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Congrats to the best non-Chinese player for his win.

Harimoto was on the defensive the whole time, too square in his shoulders, too center on the table, too basic style. I always say he is the world's best 1800 player, because that's how he plays.

By the 4th game, you could see Harimoto was desperate to be more authoritative and he tried to step-around and kill or counter-loop kill, but he just doesn't do it naturally.

 

[turbozed]

Against Harimoto, my impression is that Felix's balance and fast footwork helps him hold the table and not be out of position. The penhold grip also helps since he can stand pretty much shoulders square to the table and he doesn't need to rotate his body too much, so there's less recovery time for the next shot. Add into that mix his incredible reactions and speed and it's just hard to get a ball past him.

So Harimoto usually is holding the table and using his stable shot placement to off-balance his opponents enough where he can hit a winner through change of direction (e.g. down the line or middle) or using his new dangerous FH.

Felix was sending back shots that Harimoto would usually win points off of. And in later games you saw Harimoto just grunting loudly and trying to add more power to his shots. But this just increased his error rate. Harimoto also tried forcing the short game to off-balance Felix in the in-out axis, but Felix seems to have improved enough in that department to get at least get a long push and be in good position to defend the first topspin.

 

[blahness]

Felix solved the speed problem of the FH in RPB penhold play. He takes the ball early off the bounce both on BH and FH. Although he doesnt use the traditional FH big loopkill this speed advantage finally puts him at par with all the new gen speedsters like Harimoto and Lin Shidong.

I think Felix still has a lot of room to cover in his serve, push and receive playstyle, if he got better at it (learning more from Ma Lin techniques), he will be even scarier as a player. There are some signs of it already, i remember one match where Harimoto simply couldnt deal with his long push at all.

 

[netdriver]

bros carrying the entire penhold community on his back

im vry happy

 

[Oliverpool]

I think if Felix is able to do more loop kill type shots on his forehand, he would be truly scary. At the moment, his forehand is mainly more arc and spiny. He can do a stronger forehand at times. But it’s rare. He can play this early timing maybe for 4-5 years but he has to add more to his arsenal so that he can still be a force when he is in his mid 20s.

But he definitely has improved his short game a lot. In fact quite a lot of improvement in just the last few months. He just have heard what Xuxin said and what his opponent coaches have been saying to his opponents. Attack his middle and forehand……

 

[SlowPower]

Illegal serves made a difference too...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Congrats to the best non-Chinese player for his win.

Harimoto was on the defensive the whole time, too square in his shoulders, too center on the table, too basic style. I always say he is the world's best 1800 player, because that's how he plays.

By the 4th game, you could see Harimoto was desperate to be more authoritative and he tried to step-around and kill or counter-loop kill, but he just doesn't do it naturally.

if he is 1800
you must be 600

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Olympic Gold:
1988 penhold
1992 shakehand
1996 penhold
2000 shakehand
2004 penhold
2008 penhold
2012 shakehand
2016 shakehand
2020 shakehand
2024 shakehand
2028 penhold??

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

There has never been a shakehand one ply kiso-hinoki user yet...

Olympic Gold:
1988 penhold
1992 shakehand
1996 penhold
2000 shakehand
2004 penhold
2008 penhold
2012 shakehand
2016 shakehand
2020 shakehand
2024 shakehand
2028 penhold??

 

[SFF_lib]

Felix solved the speed problem of the FH in RPB penhold play. He takes the ball early off the bounce both on BH and FH. Although he doesnt use the traditional FH big loopkill this speed advantage finally puts him at par with all the new gen speedsters like Harimoto and Lin Shidong.

I think Felix still has a lot of room to cover in his serve, push and receive playstyle, if he got better at it (learning more from Ma Lin techniques), he will be even scarier as a player. There are some signs of it already, i remember one match where Harimoto simply couldnt deal with his long push at all.

Agree he hits the ball very early almost playing like a short-pip player.

If he can learn from Ma Lin or Ma Long in the short game deception he will win a few more champs. Perhaps Tibhar should make K3 Pro slightly more tacky?

 

[SFF_lib]

Olympic Gold:
1988 penhold
1992 shakehand
1996 penhold
2000 shakehand
2004 penhold
2008 penhold
2012 shakehand
2016 shakehand
2020 shakehand
2024 shakehand
2028 penhold??

The CNT will study every top foreign players HARD. Felix will have to evolve his techniques fast

 

[backspacer]

Olympic Gold:
1988 penhold
1992 shakehand
1996 penhold
2000 shakehand
2004 penhold
2008 penhold
2012 shakehand
2016 shakehand
2020 shakehand
2024 shakehand
2028 penhold??

2028 the claw.

 

[igorponger]

Illegal serves made a difference too...

THE VERY FAMOUS EXCUSE UMPIRES DO TAKE OFTENTIMES.
--Discretion is the better part of valour.

RULES OF THE GAME 2.6.7 suggest as follows:
-- Marginally legal serving should always be dealt with as ILLEGAL serving.

Yes, all the umpires on duty, -- whether celebrities or greeners, --do have a trembling in the guts and faint heart in the chests.

DISCRETION IS THE BETTER PART OF VALOR Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

DISCRETION IS THE BETTER PART OF VALOR definition: Caution is preferable to rash bravery. Said by Falstaff in King Henry the Fourth, Part One, by William Shakespeare. See examples of Discretion is the better part of valor used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

By saying discretion is the better part of valour, you mean that avoiding a dangerous or unpleasant situation is sometimes the most sensible thing to do.

 

[mightymouse]

CNT used to "preserve" penhold players in their team (at least one or two players) but now (after Xu Xin retired) there is no penhold player in the CNT.

Ironically, the best representative of penhold players now is a French (European). I am not saying penhold is better than shakehand or vice versa, but penhold is not a natural grip for most players. It is easier for beginner to use shakehand.

And this is coming from a penhold player (~ 3 years) who switched to shakehand quite early.

 

[longle]

I think if Felix is able to do more loop kill type shots on his forehand, he would be truly scary. At the moment, his forehand is mainly more arc and spiny. He can do a stronger forehand at times. But it’s rare. He can play this early timing maybe for 4-5 years but he has to add more to his arsenal so that he can still be a force when he is in his mid 20s.

But he definitely has improved his short game a lot. In fact quite a lot of improvement in just the last few months. He just have heard what Xuxin said and what his opponent coaches have been saying to his opponents. Attack his middle and forehand……

the grip in penhold matters very much in your play style - as a penholder myself I know that every grip you use will benefit your BH/FH and sacrifice the other. If you notice the top penholders - Xu xin sacrifice his BH for his FH, WH sacrifice his FH for BH, and Dang Qiu he uses a neutral grip for both stable FH and BH, but none prevail. Felix's grip focus entirely on his BH so his FH won't ever be as deadly as Xu Xin. But his speed very much conpensate for it.

 

[Lazer]

There has never been a shakehand one ply kiso-hinoki user yet...

Go for it …

Cheers
L-zr

 

[netdriver]

CNT used to "preserve" penhold players in their team (at least one or two players) but now (after Xu Xin retired) there is no penhold player in the CNT.

Ironically, the best representative of penhold players now is a French (European). I am not saying penhold is better than shakehand or vice versa, but penhold is not a natural grip for most players. It is easier for beginner to use shakehand.

And this is coming from a penhold player (~ 3 years) who switched to shakehand quite early.

xu haidong, zhao zihao and xu fei are still very much active today but we dont see much of them due to lackluster performance

i feel bad for xu haidong bc he usually tends to get cannibalized facing another CNT member in the qualifiers, idk much about his performance against other nations though

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

xu haidong, zhao zihao and xu fei are still very much active today but we dont see much of them due to lackluster performance

i feel bad for xu haidong bc he usually tends to get cannibalized facing another CNT member in the qualifiers, idk much about his performance against other nations though

you are right and these are the knocked out blows by non chinese.
his best finish is only a QF in feeder at Halmstad when he was KO by Csaba

at 24, one would think he would be more established by now and within a year or two, he will probably be filtered out if there are younger ones to step up.... if he stays and continues, then that is a clear sign of depth issue

2024

WTT Feeder, Halmstad (SWE)

ANDRAS Csaba (HUN)

XU Haidong (CHN)

MS

Main Draw

QuarterFinal

3 - 1

12:10 11:13 13:11 11:4

ANDRAS Csaba

2024

WTT Feeder, Panagyurishte (BUL)

XU Haidong (CHN)

YOKOTANI Jo (JPN)

MS

Main Draw

R64

1 - 3

4:11 8:11 11:7 7:11

YOKOTANI Jo

2023

WTT Feeder, Otocec (SLO)

MLADENOVIC Luka (LUX)

XU Haidong (CHN)

MS

Main Draw

R64

3 - 0

11:4 11:3 11:7

MLADENOVIC Luka

2023

WTT Contender, Almaty (KAZ)

XU Haidong (CHN)

GACINA Andrej (CRO)

MS

Qualification

QR16

2 - 3

9:11 12:10 11:7 9:11 5:11

GACINA Andrej

2023

WTT Feeder, Doha (QAT)

DUDA Benedikt (GER)

XU Haidong (CHN)

MS

Main Draw

QuarterFinal

3 - 2

9:11 8:11 11:9 11:8 11:8

DUDA Benedikt

 

[Haraold]

2028 the claw.

i thought Kawhi Lennard doesnt play TT