Felix the champion

[Dominikk85]

Felix solved the speed problem of the FH in RPB penhold play. He takes the ball early off the bounce both on BH and FH. Although he doesnt use the traditional FH big loopkill this speed advantage finally puts him at par with all the new gen speedsters like Harimoto and Lin Shidong.

I think Felix still has a lot of room to cover in his serve, push and receive playstyle, if he got better at it (learning more from Ma Lin techniques), he will be even scarier as a player. There are some signs of it already, i remember one match where Harimoto simply couldnt deal with his long push at all.

I think his close table speed is insane but to really win big titles he also needs to develop a bigger swing that allows him to score from 2-3 Meters behind the table too.

Doesn't have to use the big swing all the time but at least sometimes change it up a little.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

I think many times when Felix is playing off the bounce, the ball arrives at his opponent with more power than the bigger swings of the player he forces away from the table. You have to remember the ball decelerates relatively quickly. If Felix's shot travels <8 feet to bounce in opponents court. If opponent contacts maybe 2-3 ft back then, though his stroke may look great his ball loses power by the time it reaches Felix..
Same effect with mima's BH on some shots.
If you are good enough to play off the bounce you have a great advantage

 

[SFF_lib]

setting power and speed on the side, I hope Felix will adjust his power and placement a bit more.

If you look at ML’s rally, yes he loops like crazy on fh. But his topspin lands long and short, left and right etc. lots of variation

 

[greenbeanmachine]

CNT used to "preserve" penhold players in their team (at least one or two players) but now (after Xu Xin retired) there is no penhold player in the CNT.

Ironically, the best representative of penhold players now is a French (European). I am not saying penhold is better than shakehand or vice versa, but penhold is not a natural grip for most players. It is easier for beginner to use shakehand.

And this is coming from a penhold player (~ 3 years) who switched to shakehand quite early.

There is definitely a downside that penhold takes longer to learn. Sadly everyone is impatient these days.

Every penholder learns how to play shakehand, but most shakehand players don't learn to play penhold. Sad

 

[blahness]

There is definitely a downside that penhold takes longer to learn. Sadly everyone is impatient these days.

Every penholder learns how to play shakehand, but most shakehand players don't learn to play penhold. Sad

I think most shakehand ppl can do two wing penhold - it's not that bad of a transition.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

I think most shakehand ppl can do two wing penhold - it's not that bad of a transition.

Ovtcharov is one of the few shakehand players who also plays penhold (and he plays it at quite a high level). Most shakehand players in my club, even the good ones, can't play penhold for peanuts

 

[blahness]

The other thing is that Felix is fighting fire with fire with his head hidden RPB hook serve lol. I guess it is really the 'meta' of table tennis now. If you dont use it you're at too much of a disadvantage.

 

[mightymouse]

Following my post above, this is my unverified thought about why there are more shakehanders in the CNT:

1. Shakehand is easier to learn.

2. CNT always try to find an edge to stay above other countries: for example, they have been using sticky rubbers (H3 and friends) while the rest of the world prefer grippy rubbers. Now the rest of the world just starting to see the benefit of sticky rubbers, and many hybrid rubbers emerge.

Other example: In the past, CNT learned that switching from their traditional pimple attack to become loopers, they need better bat. After examining many samples, they chose Swedish made blades. But because of the trade restriction back in the day, they worked something out, thus Avalox blades were born.

So my thought for CNT trying to be #1 all the time: they acknowledged the superiority of shakehand, therefore they let their youngsters to use shakehand grip, thus many CNT players are shakehanders now. Even the GOAT (Ma Long) is shakehander. If they think shakehand is worse than penhold, they might have discouraged their young players for using it.

However, they also tried to preserve penholder, therefore they started looking for ways to cover the disadvantage of using penhold, such as inventing the RPB.

So, CNT lets many players using shakehand because it is easier for them to retain the #1 position.


Now, please do not say that I am a penhold hater. NO....
As I have told you previously in other threads, I started as a penholder, long long time ago. I used PH for about 2-3 years and I always thought about the weakness of PH in my backhand (traditional PH). I tried to imitate the BH smash from Zhuan Ze Dong but it was very awkward and difficult. My idol at that time was Guo Yue Hua but he played traditional penhold as well. That's why I put a rubber on my backhand and started doing what people now call RPB. But lots of my friends rebuked me and said that penhold is not meant to be played that way. That's why, jokingly now, I can say that I am the inventor of RPB.

After re-considering the whole thing, I switched to shakehand because at that time shakehand has only 1 weakness (only the cross-over area of FH and BH). And later on, by becoming an EJ, it is easier to get shakehand blades compared to penhold.

There is definitely a downside that penhold takes longer to learn. Sadly everyone is impatient these days.

Every penholder learns how to play shakehand, but most shakehand players don't learn to play penhold. Sad

 

[netdriver]

I think most shakehand ppl can do two wing penhold - it's not that bad of a transition.

relatively speaking the strokes for both SH and PH are the same, the only difference lies in the grip itself

ofc their strokes wouldnt be "proper" but i dont think a competent SH player would have any problems mucking around with penhold and still be a decent player

based on my personal experience i wouldnt say penhold is necessarily harder to learn if you're under a good coach but its easier to learn and pick up bad technique (limp wrists for example.......)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There is quite a few penholders within CNT, but they are just not 1st teamer 1st tier level
they come out and loose, so that is why you don't see them in major events.

There is even a cpen sp (fh) backhand rpb (inverted) but his win/loose is bad, not to mention he is now 27 years old with a best of R16 finish if i'm correct.
career best wr of around 130 only and part of a 3 bundesliga team this year, but yet to play

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ovtcharov is one of the few shakehand players who also plays penhold (and he plays it at quite a high level). Most shakehand players in my club, even the good ones, can't play penhold for peanuts

I think you underestimate the level of elite players.
every top shakehand player can hold penhold and play/rpb.
I have never met one who can't.

just like every penholder can just hold a shakehand and play.

I am talking about Dima and his level - since you mentioned him.

so it is not an accurate comparison for club and elite, unless you are a chinese super league club member

 

[zeio]

小勒布伦的直板技术超越王皓了吗？ (Has Little Lebrun's penhold technique surpassed Wang Hao's?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9243186338
加斯比尼 从这次德国赛的表现来看，小勒布伦的直板技术能压制张本智和，林诗栋这样的顶尖横版高手，他的直板技术是否已经超越了王浩，达到了最顶尖的水平了啊
IP属地:四川来自Android客户端1楼2024-10-29 20:53回复
(Judging from his performance in this German competition [TL's note: French], Lebrun's penhold technique can suppress top shakehand players like Harimoto and Lin Shidong. Has his penhold technique surpassed Wang Hao's and reached the top level?)

香草摩卡 王皓差一步全满贯（虽然说是最难的一步）
勒布伦还得再使使劲
IP属地:吉林来自Android客户端2楼2024-10-29 21:49收起回复
(Wang Hao is one step away from a Golden Slam (although it is the most difficult step)
Lebrun still needs to work harder)
王小修: 以前的时候这种问题都不需要问，打三次朱世爀就能得到准确答案。现在再看看世界乒坛，男线这边连个能拿得出手的削球都没有了，所以我才总说，现在的第一比起以前的第一含金量低得多。
2024-10-30 09:36回复
(In the past, this kind of question didn’t need to be asked. The correct answer could've been gotten by playing Joo Saehyuk three times. Now, looking at the table tennis world, there is not even a decent chopper on the men’s side. That’s why I always say that the current No. 1 has much less gold-content than the No. 1 in the past.)

lerk 一场比赛不大能说明什么，何况不同时代器材也变化很大
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端3楼2024-10-29 21:56回复
(One tournament doesn't tell much, and the equipment has changed a lot in different eras)

hjjbvGhjn 等他拿到王皓的18个世界冠军再说吧
IP属地:湖南来自Android客户端4楼2024-10-29 22:05回复
(Let's wait until he matches Wang Hao's 18 world titles)

贴吧用户_5K7ES9D 一场也说明不了什么吧，吧友都是只看一场论
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端5楼2024-10-29 22:07回复
(One tournament hardly proves anything, many Tieba users are one-off theorists)

ellagong0620 王皓时期几个人是比较均势的：波尔、马龙（不成熟）、继科、大力（压制王皓前半职业生涯，雅典是例外。）、马琳（大赛型）、老柳（神经刀，似7号）。他们7个人是轮着赢的。现在小布时代第一梯队：马龙（估计今年过后淡出）、樊振东（大赛）、大布、张本智和、王楚钦（考完公务员、运动员的路途怎么走难说）、·莫雷加德（很快完成大满亚），相对来说高手已经不像王皓时代，每场尽力。所以即便商业赛全胜也不能和王皓时期相比。
IP属地:广东6楼2024-10-29 22:13收起回复
(During Wang Hao's time, several players were relatively evenly matched: Boll, Ma Long (immature), Jike, Dali (suppressed Wang Hao in the first half of his career, with the exception of Athens), Ma Lin (major competitions type), Old Ryu (wild blade, like No. 7 [TL's note: Zhou Qihao]). The 7 of them took turns to win. Now the first echelon of the Little Brun era: Ma Long (expected to fade out after this year), Fan Zhendong (major competitions), Big Brun, Harimoto Tomokazu, Wang Chuqin (after taking the civil service exam, it is hard to say what his path as an athlete will be), Moregard (soon to complete the Silver Grand Slam). Relatively speaking, the top players are no longer like Wang Hao's era, trying their best in every competition. So even if they win all the commercial tournaments, they can't compare with Wang Hao's era.)

贴吧用户_JQVPy7Q 时代不同不好直接对比，目前来看有机会
还需要成绩来检验
IP属地:福建来自Android客户端7楼2024-10-29 23:22回复
(It is difficult to compare directly due to different times, but at present there is a chance
It still needs to be verified by results)

中大哥伦比亚 一场比赛不大能说明什么
IP属地:广东12楼2024-10-30 08:25回复
(One tournament doesn't tell you much)

豆包豆丁的春天 不同的时代技术是不一样的，虽然王皓没有大满贯，但是王皓的直拍技术放在当时是最顶尖的。他和马琳，一个是直拍两面弧的代表，一个是近台玩前3板的大师（也算左推右攻的进阶版），都是直拍顶端。而勒布伦也是近代40+直拍技术的探索者，目前也是现在代表在役运动员中直拍顶端的那一个，只是现在他所探索的新的直拍的技战术是否能为他带来更多的荣誉，还有待观察。
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端13楼2024-10-30 09:27回复
(Different eras have different techniques. Although Wang Hao did not win a Grand Slam, his penhold technique was the best at that time. He and Ma Lin, one is the representative of penhold double-wing looper, and the other is the master of close-range 3rd ball (also considered an advanced version of block on BH and attack on FH), are both at the top of the penhold technique. Lebrun is also an explorer of the modern 40+ penhold technique, and is currently the top of the penhold technique among active athletes. It remains to be seen whether the new penhold technique and tactics he is exploring can bring him more honors.)

唱歌v宝贝 先拿一个三大赛单打再说
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端15楼2024-10-30 09:55回复
(Win a singles title in the 3 majors first)

你二眔爷 林诗栋都变成顶级选手了？哈哈哈哈，你也不看看王皓时代都哪些球员，凡是看过王皓打球的都说不出这种挠弹的话
IP属地:湖北19楼2024-10-30 11:39回复
(Lin Shidong has become a top player? Hahahaha, don't you see the players in Wang Hao's era? Anyone who has seen Wang Hao play can't make such a tickling claim)

 

[greenbeanmachine]

I think you underestimate the level of elite players.
every top shakehand player can hold penhold and play/rpb.
I have never met one who can't.

just like every penholder can just hold a shakehand and play.

I am talking about Dima and his level - since you mentioned him.

so it is not an accurate comparison for club and elite, unless you are a chinese super league club member

Yeah I'm sure the pros are at a different level and most of them could beat me 11-0 using an iphone. But Dima beat German national team players using penhold. I think that at least this is a rare quality among shakehand players.

I think it's also fair to say that penhold players can pick up shakehand easier than shakehand players can pick up penhold.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yeah I'm sure the pros are at a different level and most of them could beat me 11-0 using an iphone. But Dima beat German national team players using penhold. I think that at least this is a rare quality among shakehand players.

I think it's also fair to say that penhold players can pick up shakehand easier than shakehand players can pick up penhold.

Dima is a super athlete though
If it wasn’t for Timo Boll, Dima will be more famous

 

[Nima Abadi]

I once heard from someone who had played against Felix that to him, Felix seemed in position all the times. He said because he stays close to the table, he's always in place and it limits the other players attacking options.

The other thing he mentioned was that Felix shots are not telegraphed like other players. The guy said he couldn't figure out where Felix was going to place the ball as his down the lines and body shots were not telegraphed at all, and because Felix plays close to the table, there was not much time to prepare for an attack so he ended up into a defensive position with Felix changing the placement constantly keeping him guessing.

He said overall playing him feels like getting a stick up your ass and not being able to move out of your uncomfortable position.