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Generally speaking, the Table Tennis and Ping Pong, at recreation centers, is not organized very well.
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For the record, I am like Next Level, and Carl, and many others... I would utilize whatever will work and is practical.
There are certainly many people working in a number of different ways. In USA, it is not realistic for the President or Congress to make a mandate for TT in schools + Government, that isn't gunna happen.
The increased interest in TT the last decade has made it feasible for a FEW colleges to run scholership or at least intramural/interschool squads, but there are very few and not enough to pull up the demand for TT to grow as it needs. I'm not really addressing the negative perceptions, both imagined and real, but just being real about how TT can grow.
Pnchy rightfully bemoans lack of a TT infrastructure for physical clubs and even half-azz quality coaching. In the USA, the "Build it and they will come" approach does not work. Not enough demand in too many areas.
We cannot build a suitable infrastructure too soon. That will make too many TT leaders a business failure and unwilling/unable to invest again, many invest everything they have to start a club, they carefully see if there is enough demand to pay even rent. My own local club had to stop for this reason, rent way too high and not able to generate 100 members in one year... another year and coulda happened.
On hte other hand, you build up too much interest too fast in Table Tennis and get the social and basement crowd excited about organized TT, but there is literally nowhere to go to play or no one to organize/manage... that is also a catastrophic fail. These players would never again get interested in TT so easily again if there was no place to go.
The practical way to grow is to make the demand in a place where there is already an infrastructure, a school, that is easy to make if there isn't (schools have room, just need a table and kids & a leader - like Abe or an adult TT player/leader) When one school gets a lot of kids in this, it is a lot easier to copy this model and spread it. We have to start working in areas where there is a already an interest and an existing infrastructure, much higher percentage, then it gets easier to do in other places. Kids talk, kids go on social media, kids express their joy and energy. Once we get some traction in established areas and a few un-established successfully, then it is easier to do this in nearby areas where there is no TT, which makes it later easier to reach the remote places.
When there are enough children in USA playing at schools, it makes demand for the future TT clubs and other opportunities. NO outfit or company has concentrated their efforts like this and frankly, many do not care, they are content to fight for market share of a relatively tiny market. It ought to be shameful that a company with a capitalization of barely 5 figures is up there with those in the front with a workable plan and vision that can be copied and repeated in places... and there are outfits with deep 7 figure capitalization who grow the sport by tossing some goodies to an elite player, which newer players cannot relate to. Once the market is much more mature such a thing will be good for prestige and competition among companies.
There are certainly many people working in a number of different ways. In USA, it is not realistic for the President or Congress to make a mandate for TT in schools + Government, that isn't gunna happen.
The increased interest in TT the last decade has made it feasible for a FEW colleges to run scholership or at least intramural/interschool squads, but there are very few and not enough to pull up the demand for TT to grow as it needs. I'm not really addressing the negative perceptions, both imagined and real, but just being real about how TT can grow.
Pnchy rightfully bemoans lack of a TT infrastructure for physical clubs and even half-azz quality coaching. In the USA, the "Build it and they will come" approach does not work. Not enough demand in too many areas.
We cannot build a suitable infrastructure too soon. That will make too many TT leaders a business failure and unwilling/unable to invest again, many invest everything they have to start a club, they carefully see if there is enough demand to pay even rent. My own local club had to stop for this reason, rent way too high and not able to generate 100 members in one year... another year and coulda happened.
On hte other hand, you build up too much interest too fast in Table Tennis and get the social and basement crowd excited about organized TT, but there is literally nowhere to go to play or no one to organize/manage... that is also a catastrophic fail. These players would never again get interested in TT so easily again if there was no place to go.
The practical way to grow is to make the demand in a place where there is already an infrastructure, a school, that is easy to make if there isn't (schools have room, just need a table and kids & a leader - like Abe or an adult TT player/leader) When one school gets a lot of kids in this, it is a lot easier to copy this model and spread it. We have to start working in areas where there is a already an interest and an existing infrastructure, much higher percentage, then it gets easier to do in other places. Kids talk, kids go on social media, kids express their joy and energy. Once we get some traction in established areas and a few un-established successfully, then it is easier to do this in nearby areas where there is no TT, which makes it later easier to reach the remote places.
When there are enough children in USA playing at schools, it makes demand for the future TT clubs and other opportunities. NO outfit or company has concentrated their efforts like this and frankly, many do not care, they are content to fight for market share of a relatively tiny market. It ought to be shameful that a company with a capitalization of barely 5 figures is up there with those in the front with a workable plan and vision that can be copied and repeated in places... and there are outfits with deep 7 figure capitalization who grow the sport by tossing some goodies to an elite player, which newer players cannot relate to. Once the market is much more mature such a thing will be good for prestige and competition among companies.
I hate to say this and it might anger some people, but there is a small part of me that doesn't want table tennis to grow beyond what it is currently as a niche sport.
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Also. I don't have the numbers, but in my impression there are much more men involved in this sport at amateur level, than women. Why?
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There has not been an organized marketing plan , when this happens the potential female player will be courted.
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One thing that is actually interesting is to look at what SPiN's actually marketing plan is. It started out as a small group of NY film makers who were throwing parties with Ping Pong in a loft in Soho for the Rich and Famous, mostly actors and artists.
There market is still the rich, but now their biggest target is corporations and getting corporations to have Ping Pong Parties. In the parties they throw, there is usually a pro running the party. The pro is usually a player who is around 2500. Sometimes there are several pros. The pro or pros, hit with people, get them to have fun, do wacky stuff. I remember seeing Kaz playing people with a lollipop. But the party usually is organized around a tournament with a winner and alcohol.
Now the interesting thing about this marketing scheme is this. It seems that in all these major corporations that are having parties at SPiN, there are always a bunch of guys in the company who love table tennis and think they are, you know, ping pong gods. So, some of these corporations end up with tables in their rec room and one of the pros who coaches at SPiN will often end up going to the rec room at the corporation to give lessons to a few of the big wigs who think they can play at the these companies.
It is a twisted scheme that is entirely based on making SPiN as much money as possible. But, in an interesting way, it is getting these guys more interested in the sport, or at least playing it. Although I doubt these corporate types, for the most part, are really learning the sport. They are interested in playing and bragging rights. There was a coach who was training this guy to get ready for a match with another big wig in his corporation and the there was $10,000.00 USD riding on the match. I mean, from a real standpoint, they were both clowns and I could beat them with my left hand. But, they had a bet on th match for $10,000.00 smackers. Der, too bad you didn't put the hustle on those two guys. You could have come away with $10,000.00 from each!!!
There market is still the rich, but now their biggest target is corporations and getting corporations to have Ping Pong Parties. In the parties they throw, there is usually a pro running the party. The pro is usually a player who is around 2500. Sometimes there are several pros. The pro or pros, hit with people, get them to have fun, do wacky stuff. I remember seeing Kaz playing people with a lollipop. But the party usually is organized around a tournament with a winner and alcohol.
Now the interesting thing about this marketing scheme is this. It seems that in all these major corporations that are having parties at SPiN, there are always a bunch of guys in the company who love table tennis and think they are, you know, ping pong gods. So, some of these corporations end up with tables in their rec room and one of the pros who coaches at SPiN will often end up going to the rec room at the corporation to give lessons to a few of the big wigs who think they can play at the these companies.
It is a twisted scheme that is entirely based on making SPiN as much money as possible. But, in an interesting way, it is getting these guys more interested in the sport, or at least playing it. Although I doubt these corporate types, for the most part, are really learning the sport. They are interested in playing and bragging rights. There was a coach who was training this guy to get ready for a match with another big wig in his corporation and the there was $10,000.00 USD riding on the match. I mean, from a real standpoint, they were both clowns and I could beat them with my left hand. But, they had a bet on th match for $10,000.00 smackers. Der, too bad you didn't put the hustle on those two guys. You could have come away with $10,000.00 from each!!!
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I think quality coaching in the United States mainly comes from immigration. In my table tennis club, there were three from other countries, two of the coaches had to return back to their country. A third one went back, I don't know if he's coming back. In some clubs they rotate every three months. Currently I get quality coaching at my club. There are still three coaches left, I know two of them will stay in the United States for good, but the other coach is still up in the air, he's from China who is trying to immigrate to the US.
I'm lucky, besides my own local table tennis club which is the biggest in my state, there are a few others clubs. One thing that could improve table tennis in the US, is advertising. Getting the word out there, recruiting players along with coaches. Getting good donations from people or companies to keep the club running at a high level.
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Generally speaking, fellowship at recreation center clubs, is not very good, maybe due to the diversity of players participating.
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I'll be quite honest with you, i would'nt like to live in a country where it's difficult to play table tennis !
it's more interesting to play against a lot of players and so future of table tennis in USA is in growing, no doubt about this for me.
I am living in a french town with 80.000 people, about 400 players, ever many people at training, I couldn't imagine a town without table tennis.
it's more interesting to play against a lot of players and so future of table tennis in USA is in growing, no doubt about this for me.
I am living in a french town with 80.000 people, about 400 players, ever many people at training, I couldn't imagine a town without table tennis.
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Hello, new member here. I'm 56 yo and started playing TT about 2 years ago to get exercise. It's a great cardio-workout.
I live (close enough) to Richmond VA and there are a couple places to play. Let me comment on them and you can see my perspective:
1) We have a club (Richmond TTC) where there are active members and they play USATT tournaments. it's a great place to gain skills once you've attained a certain (~1400+) level.
2) there is a city park building where on Tuesday nights they roll out 3 tables and locals play. It's mainly the Chinese-American community. And this is a great social club. See my wife is a Chinese-American and she can socialize with the player's wifes while I play.
I feel fortunate to have both places. I used to live in NoVA where Der_Echte lives, played at some of those places. NoVa (Washington DC area) has clubs, but, not a great social network. Although there are more clubs to play.
Back on topic; in the US I have played in many sports and it's 'every person for themselves' as far as a training attitude. Some Uni's have a good program, some are flash-in-the-pan when good players get scholarships. It's this way for many other sports, I don't see it changing. It's also different in Continental Europe as a previous poster mentioned, good coaches are available in average sized cities.
There is one high-school girl in my city (plays at both above clubs and I know her father) who is 1900+ and already getting sponsors and a scholarship. That's one and we should have many more. Again, other US sports have the same concept; one good person that people think will get very good. Sorry to be kinda negative on my first post, just wanted to tell you my perspective.
Regards,
Chuck
I live (close enough) to Richmond VA and there are a couple places to play. Let me comment on them and you can see my perspective:
1) We have a club (Richmond TTC) where there are active members and they play USATT tournaments. it's a great place to gain skills once you've attained a certain (~1400+) level.
2) there is a city park building where on Tuesday nights they roll out 3 tables and locals play. It's mainly the Chinese-American community. And this is a great social club. See my wife is a Chinese-American and she can socialize with the player's wifes while I play.
I feel fortunate to have both places. I used to live in NoVA where Der_Echte lives, played at some of those places. NoVa (Washington DC area) has clubs, but, not a great social network. Although there are more clubs to play.
Back on topic; in the US I have played in many sports and it's 'every person for themselves' as far as a training attitude. Some Uni's have a good program, some are flash-in-the-pan when good players get scholarships. It's this way for many other sports, I don't see it changing. It's also different in Continental Europe as a previous poster mentioned, good coaches are available in average sized cities.
There is one high-school girl in my city (plays at both above clubs and I know her father) who is 1900+ and already getting sponsors and a scholarship. That's one and we should have many more. Again, other US sports have the same concept; one good person that people think will get very good. Sorry to be kinda negative on my first post, just wanted to tell you my perspective.
Regards,
Chuck
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That is amazing! Love it! I have a couple of questions for you, would you just visit a country like the US, and play or even give some lessons for a few days at a local table tennis club? Are in involved in table tennis league?
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I didn't travel outside Europe ... we say "casanier" in french ... But I am always interested about others country playing table tennis.
I am 56 old and play since about 25 years (with a break) in regional championship, my level is about 1300 points in France.
As I am music teacher, i'm very interested too about table tennis technique, I am often looking at videos (ttbl.tv, ittv, etc ...)
In france, it's just a dream to play table tennis, it's cheap (between 100 euros and 150 euros for a year) and there is a lot of free competitions.
a question, who are the top players in USA and what about their world ranking ?
I am 56 old and play since about 25 years (with a break) in regional championship, my level is about 1300 points in France.
As I am music teacher, i'm very interested too about table tennis technique, I am often looking at videos (ttbl.tv, ittv, etc ...)
In france, it's just a dream to play table tennis, it's cheap (between 100 euros and 150 euros for a year) and there is a lot of free competitions.
a question, who are the top players in USA and what about their world ranking ?
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Nah Carl, I woulda walked away with a million if they were THAT flush with money and as hard-headed as you stated.
I woulda done the hustle in a similar way you do. You gotta string it out and ACT like you were just lucky and not near as god as you are. The dudes losing get mad that the "just barely" lost and wanna do it again... and again... each time for higher stakes.
That is the kind of corporate party I like to crash.
Of course, when you try to walk away with all that cash, the pissed of loser President might order hiz personal Goon Squad hired by the company to shake you down, but both of us are pretty good at dealing with and evading Goon Squads.
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One key part of it is you gotta ACT like you are fooled by their "spin" and pop up the ball a lot so they can smash. You gotta let them make some macho shots to keep their ego high.
If win your point form a simple underspin ball they put into the net, the hustle is over, they already know the. You cannot make heavy topspin ever... or at least land them. Good idea to try for a few and miss to give them a few points and keep them thinking their "Spin" is troubling you.
If win your point form a simple underspin ball they put into the net, the hustle is over, they already know the. You cannot make heavy topspin ever... or at least land them. Good idea to try for a few and miss to give them a few points and keep them thinking their "Spin" is troubling you.
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Who are the top players in the US, that is a good question. Unlike France, table tennis in the USA is still a relatively little known sport. Despite the fact that many people play table tennis in the US, it is seen as more of a recreational activity than a serious sport. In my opinion, table tennis is both. When I began playing seriously in college, I had no clue that there were ranked players until someone loaned me a video on the Swedish national team. Then I realized, man this is a pretty big sport in other countries! Back then there was no internet where you could watch the professionals. Last year I came back from not playing competitively for 15 years. I think I played table tennis six times prior to last year and that is when I discovered there was a club.
Even though we live in the information age, it took word of mouth that gave me information that there is a local table tennis club. Most of my buddies moved to other states or just focused on other aspects in their lives rather than playing table tennis. From my college days, I say since I have been back, there are a lot more players, who have different styles, and play at higher levels than when there was when I played in college. There was only a few who played at high levels. I was blessed to have played with some of the best in the state back then, and I am playing with some good players now. I'm in my 40's. I can't play five or six days a week like I did in college, I play usually twice a week, sometimes more when I have time off.
Now getting back to your question, the US is way behind the world in table tennis, but I think we have stronger players today than in the past. Some of the players include: Ruichao Chen (2701), 2015 Butterfly Aurora Cup Champion, and Jishan Liang (2669), 2015 Butterfly Cary Cup Champion. Although he is not rated as high, I would say, Jimmy Butler who is in his 40's as one of the best in the US. In the 90's he was ranked 78th in the world. But what is amazing about him, he had to take 8 years off due to injury with little prospect of coming back. But somehow he overcame the injury and is playing some of his best table tennis. I think the best player I have seen in the United States, is Ariel Hsing. She almost beat the Chinese champion in the 2012 Olympics. I think she was only 15. She was the first American to be invited to play in the Chinese super league. Now she goes to college, she doesn't train as much as she did while in high school but I think she still has talent to beat some of the top players in the world.
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Outstanding thread, der_Echte.
This is what i like to read about. I think there is so much unused potential in the US.
I think you are totally right, with your way of tryin' to get schoolkids into the sport. The kids are the future...
Big up also to AGold. Good job. Keep it up.
But the situation over here also is far from perfect...
Since the 1980s we (in germany) lost about one third of tabletennis club members.
The number of club members went down from 820,000 registered club members in 1989 to 588,000 in 2014.
And this happening with guys like Timo Boll and Dima Ovtcharov in these times. The shame is they both get more attention and being treated like stars in china than they do in germany.... That's really saddening.
These numbers are very alarming to the DTTB and their regional Landesverbände like HeTTV, TTVR and others.
Now there is different activities to change this.
The HeTTV talks to schools to make tabletennis a school project in e.g. physical education classes for a couple of months or try to even build up working groups at schools. This is mostly for junior high / high school age. There is a competition for best classes and one called Jugend trainiert für Olympia.
But they also try to reach out for kids in elementary schools for kids from 6 to 10, to help grow motorical and cognitive abilities.
The DTTB gives away boxes with equipment for this.
Time will tell how succesful these activities are going to be.
But in areas with Bundesligaclubs who have young players on their Teams, it starts becoming 'cool' to play good tabletennis at least @ TTCOE in Bad Homburg.
But i don't think that's all that needs to be done.
Clubs makin' affordable prices for kids to play tabletennis like for a very little amount or free membership for a couple of months. Businesswise this might sound irrational but I think it's better to have 100 kids pay 2 or 3 $ than to have 5 kids pay 20 $
It would also be great to try to make tabletennis a real college sport like basketball, or others. So professional players should also be able to make a decent living. IMHO this only can be done with more media attention and sponsorships.
here is a whole lot waiting to be done
This is what i like to read about. I think there is so much unused potential in the US.
I think you are totally right, with your way of tryin' to get schoolkids into the sport. The kids are the future...
Big up also to AGold. Good job. Keep it up.
But the situation over here also is far from perfect...
Since the 1980s we (in germany) lost about one third of tabletennis club members.
The number of club members went down from 820,000 registered club members in 1989 to 588,000 in 2014.
And this happening with guys like Timo Boll and Dima Ovtcharov in these times. The shame is they both get more attention and being treated like stars in china than they do in germany.... That's really saddening.
These numbers are very alarming to the DTTB and their regional Landesverbände like HeTTV, TTVR and others.
Now there is different activities to change this.
The HeTTV talks to schools to make tabletennis a school project in e.g. physical education classes for a couple of months or try to even build up working groups at schools. This is mostly for junior high / high school age. There is a competition for best classes and one called Jugend trainiert für Olympia.
But they also try to reach out for kids in elementary schools for kids from 6 to 10, to help grow motorical and cognitive abilities.
The DTTB gives away boxes with equipment for this.
Time will tell how succesful these activities are going to be.
But in areas with Bundesligaclubs who have young players on their Teams, it starts becoming 'cool' to play good tabletennis at least @ TTCOE in Bad Homburg.
But i don't think that's all that needs to be done.
Clubs makin' affordable prices for kids to play tabletennis like for a very little amount or free membership for a couple of months. Businesswise this might sound irrational but I think it's better to have 100 kids pay 2 or 3 $ than to have 5 kids pay 20 $
It would also be great to try to make tabletennis a real college sport like basketball, or others. So professional players should also be able to make a decent living. IMHO this only can be done with more media attention and sponsorships.
here is a whole lot waiting to be done
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I think that Larry got it right: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/2276
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Good find, ilia. I agree 100% with Larry Hodges here.
Hope he'll find nuff volunteers.
If i wouldn't be living so far, i'd really love to help on this.
Hope he'll find nuff volunteers.
If i wouldn't be living so far, i'd really love to help on this.
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