Why haven't SEA countries had many strong TT players?

[turbozed]

I did a little bit of reseach on this topic with regards to Vietnam and came to the conclusion that there is no institutional structure and funding to send promising players to compete internationally. There are only a few events like the SE Asian games where Vietnam can compete internationally and they've been doing pretty well. This past SEA games, Vietnam picked up gold in mixed doubles, and silver and bronze in men's singles.

Their two best men's players, Nguyen Anh Tu and Nguyen Duc Tuan, haven't competed in any WTT events, at least since early 2022. Nguyen Anh Tu reached a high of #179 ITTF WR in 2018.

Like the video that @bachikho posted above with Doan Tuan Anh taking Ling Jiangkun to the decider shows, these guys can be very competitive even with the best in the world. This is despite Doan having a most recent ranking of #600. They just don't have chances to earn points in international play. And the lack of international competition means they never reach their full potential skill-wise.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I did a little bit of reseach on this topic with regards to Vietnam and came to the conclusion that there is no institutional structure and funding to send promising players to compete internationally. There are only a few events like the SE Asian games where Vietnam can compete internationally and they've been doing pretty well. This past SEA games, Vietnam picked up gold in mixed doubles, and silver and bronze in men's singles.

Their two best men's players, Nguyen Anh Tu and Nguyen Duc Tuan, haven't competed in any WTT events, at least since early 2022. Nguyen Anh Tu reached a high of #179 ITTF WR in 2018.

Like the video that @bachikho posted above with Doan Tuan Anh taking Ling Jiangkun to the decider shows, these guys can be very competitive even with the best in the world. This is despite Doan having a most recent ranking of #600. They just don't have chances to earn points in international play. And the lack of international competition means they never reach their full potential skill-wise.

So it sounds like they have certain players who are somewhat at the tour level, but they just don't have funding for flights and hotels and stuff? So their players are good enough to compete, but are just not sent out to compete?

So why do those nations send out so many players to compete in badminton but they don't do it for TT?

 

[turbozed]

So it sounds like they have certain players who are somewhat at the tour level, but they just don't have funding for flights and hotels and stuff? So their players are good enough to compete, but are just not sent out to compete?

So why do those nations send out so many players to compete in badminton but they don't do it for TT?

Just thinking out loud here but I recall Iba Diaw explaining how expensive it was to participate in the WTT events. He mentioned how he not only had to fly out to places and pay the various fees, but also had to stay at the expensive WTT designated hotels.

Maybe the new system was just too expensive for them and that's why they stopped sending players to WTT competition for the past 2 years.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Their two best men's players, Nguyen Anh Tu and Nguyen Duc Tuan, haven't competed in any WTT events, at least since early 2022. Nguyen Anh Tu reached a high of #179 ITTF WR in 2018.

that is still the old ranking days.
so, in terms of playing level, he can easily be WR50~80 today.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Just thinking out loud here but I recall Iba Diaw explaining how expensive it was to participate in the WTT events. He mentioned how he not only had to fly out to places and pay the various fees, but also had to stay at the expensive WTT designated hotels.

Maybe the new system was just too expensive for them and that's why they stopped sending players to WTT competition for the past 2 years.

I heard they didn't have funding with the old system
the new system is just way costly.
and not to mention, the points are only valid for 12 months (even Olympics/World champs)
and then you have these useless world cups where you might only walk away with 10 or 30 points (mixed team wc)
the new system is costly and difficult to gain good points if you are WR50 and lower.
It is designed for WR10 to stay there and difficult to drop out.
it is easy to get from 250 to 50 with 1 good tournament (or like Oceania or Africa champion), but from 50 to 20, requires a proper mathematician to calculate your yearly tournament itinerary (and available funds)

and the thing about hotel is, WTT is now - full package entry. So its not just entering into the tournament as "entry fee", but the full package from airport to airport is all part of the service rendered, which Iba said would cost more than double of him doing it himself (ie, he can stay in cheap Airbnbs)

 

[turbozed]

and the thing about hotel is, WTT is now - full package entry. So its not just entering into the tournament as "entry fee", but the full package from airport to airport is all part of the service rendered, which Iba said would cost more than double of him doing it himself (ie, he can stay in cheap Airbnbs)

Yeah I remember that when Iba Diaw explained the "full package" requirement of the WTT, I was shocked by how exclusionary and unfair it all sounded. No Vietnamese player could afford that on their own without a rich benefactor or government support.

 

[zeio]

Their two best men's players, Nguyen Anh Tu and Nguyen Duc Tuan, haven't competed in any WTT events, at least since early 2022. Nguyen Anh Tu reached a high of #179 ITTF WR in 2018.

I took a look. Nguyen Anh Tu actually last played at Asian Games 2023. His previous event before that was South East Asian Games in 12/2019. It seems like he only stopped since 4/2022 because those were the "initial points" left from 2019.

Player Events
https://results.ittf.link/index.php...profiles_tournament___player_id[value]=123720

A little background on the world ranking reform. The new merit-based ranking took effect in 1/2018. The point gap was widened starting from 2019.
https://mytabletennis.net/forum/for...s-in-world-ranking-regulations-in-2018#971756
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-iitf-have-a-ratings-system.21355/post-279601
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/may-world-rankings-2019.20932/post-272267
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-race-to-tokyo-2020-singles.20935/post-273266
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/world-ranking-rigged.21602/post-284716

10/2018
https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/detail/5c824d85dc2bf9514d994a79
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/World_Ranking_description_2018.pdf_0.pdf
Asian Games 2018 = 665
MS main draw R32 = 525
MT qualification SF, 2 wins= 70*2 = 140

WTTC 2018 = 935
MT 3rd division main draw and qualification, 11 wins = 85*11 = 935

WTTC 2017 = 750
MS qualification Pre. R64 and 2 wins in qualification group = 600+75*2 = 750

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yeah I remember that when Iba Diaw explained the "full package" requirement of the WTT, I was shocked by how exclusionary and unfair it all sounded. No Vietnamese player could afford that on their own without a rich benefactor or government support.

yeah, because they don't factor a lot of things
Ie, if you live in the same city of the tournament, you still need to pay the hotel costs in your "full package entry fee".

In budget TT pros, it is not uncommon for players to sleep on fellow players couches or someone who know someone's couches to help save costs.
That was what a lot of people did to help spend the money wiser, so the little money you have, can go a long way further.

Some of these hotels are actually not so great. and the shuttle service quality is not always world standards.
I can't remember what tournament, but it was the past 2 months where the shuttle could only take half of the players from the hotel to the hall, and they had to wait another 20 mins for another shuttle to be arranged to come and pick them up.
In whole, the players waited in the lobby for over 30 mins to leave the hotel - while being "on time" for the arranged departure.

And the recent youth contender in Philippines, one would walk to the hall (its close enough - but a bit scary for the kids to be crossing roads without pedestrian crossings) as it was quicker than waiting for the shuttle.

 

[backspacer]

yeah, because they don't factor a lot of things
Ie, if you live in the same city of the tournament, you still need to pay the hotel costs in your "full package entry fee".

In budget TT pros, it is not uncommon for players to sleep on fellow players couches or someone who know someone's couches to help save costs.
That was what a lot of people did to help spend the money wiser, so the little money you have, can go a long way further.

Some of these hotels are actually not so great. and the shuttle service quality is not always world standards.
I can't remember what tournament, but it was the past 2 months where the shuttle could only take half of the players from the hotel to the hall, and they had to wait another 20 mins for another shuttle to be arranged to come and pick them up.
In whole, the players waited in the lobby for over 30 mins to leave the hotel - while being "on time" for the arranged departure.

And the recent youth contender in Philippines, one would walk to the hall (its close enough - but a bit scary for the kids to be crossing roads without pedestrian crossings) as it was quicker than waiting for the shuttle.

I also remember Iba saying one time he asked to change rooms because a loud club/disco was above him. Why would WTT even choose such a hotel in the first place?

 

[turbozed]

I also remember Iba saying one time he asked to change rooms because a loud club/disco was above him. Why would WTT even choose such a hotel in the first place?

Also don't forget about the time Iba's room got flooded with water due to bad plumbing.

It's almost as if one of WTT's main goals is to bring business to poorly run hotels in BRICS countries

 

[TheProfessor]

yeah, because they don't factor a lot of things
Ie, if you live in the same city of the tournament, you still need to pay the hotel costs in your "full package entry fee".

In budget TT pros, it is not uncommon for players to sleep on fellow players couches or someone who know someone's couches to help save costs.
That was what a lot of people did to help spend the money wiser, so the little money you have, can go a long way further.

Some of these hotels are actually not so great. and the shuttle service quality is not always world standards.
I can't remember what tournament, but it was the past 2 months where the shuttle could only take half of the players from the hotel to the hall, and they had to wait another 20 mins for another shuttle to be arranged to come and pick them up.
In whole, the players waited in the lobby for over 30 mins to leave the hotel - while being "on time" for the arranged departure.

And the recent youth contender in Philippines, one would walk to the hall (its close enough - but a bit scary for the kids to be crossing roads without pedestrian crossings) as it was quicker than waiting for the shuttle.

Were you in the Philippines for this event?

 

[backspacer]

Also don't forget about the time Iba's room got flooded with water due to bad plumbing.

It's almost as if one of WTT's main goals is to bring business to poorly run hotels in BRICS countries

Actually wanted to mention that, but I thought s*** happens 😅

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Were you in the Philippines for this event?

Nope, I didn't go
were you there?

 

[TheProfessor]

Nope, I didn't go
were you there?

I am in the Philippines but wasn't able to watch the event.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I am in the Philippines but wasn't able to watch the event.

what a pity.
some other Filipinos that I know also couldn't make it

 

[iammaru]

I can’t say for other countries but table tennis is a quite popular sport in Vietnam and we do have decent training system and talented players, just no money to compete internationally. The only sports with decent funding here is football and to a certain extend basketball. If our table tennis players are funded well, they could reach at least top 100 or 50. But that’s not attractive enough for the gov to invest in you. The players could never realize their potential.
Vietnam used to have a high ranked badminton player, but he had to self fund his training and international competitions.