Guess the Rating

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Howerver, I think you have a pretty good technic but HUGE problems with footwork. And I like with how much fun and passion you play table tennis.

As long as you know that NextLevel has an autoimmune disease called Rheumatoid Arthritis and it affects his knees and shoulders so he actually can't move that much.

And I can tell you, from personal experience, that he does not look as good on video as his actual play level is. It is deceptive. But your comments do indicate some things he could certainly improve to raise his level.
 
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this is a very sensitive subject, I know, you are putting yourself out there and if you don't like what you hear you get defensive right away, it's natural.

anyway I wasn't even talking about technique or moving.
it's about initiative.
when you play a guy who is really good and you push long you can practically kiss goodbye that point.

but don't take this too personal, the only important thing is you are happy with yourself and how you play. :eek:

Okay. There is nothing sensitive - I am stating facts. I have posted 4 videos and it seems that people can't read between the lines. Based on the first set of this match, what would you rate me as?

 
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It's a shame for your condition, NL. I don't know how painful or dangerous it is to move around with that, but with what you have, your footwork is not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Your shots are constricted, though, and you would certainly be a bit higher level if you were in ideal condition. But who is, right?
 
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Hi NL......

I think the whole "rate me based on this" is difficult for many reasons - Not least the apparent lack of understanding around how the US ratings work for us foreign folk!

I agree, NDH. I am not really saying that people are wrong. It's just that some of them are pretending that they never have bad matches that are similar to what I initially posted or that they understand table tennis in this special way that means that there aren't exceptions to general table tennis understanding. I am not a paralympian, but high level players exist there too. I am not yet really old, though my body is in some ways, and older players have much better footwork than I do, but they don't move that much.
 
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Definitely higher than the 1550 TTR I mentioned before, maybe 100 more ;)


Fine. And let's also remember that I will not show you the same respect I showed a player whose highest TTR was closer to 2200-2400. The kid is about 1700-1800 TTR.
 
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I agree, NDH. I am not really saying that people are wrong. It's just that some of them are pretending that they never have bad matches that are similar to what I initially posted or that they understand table tennis in this special way that means that there aren't exceptions to general table tennis understanding. I am not a paralympian, but high level players exist there too. I am not yet really old, though my body is in some ways, and older players have much better footwork than I do, but they don't move that much.

Completely agree.

Firstly, it seems the majority of people weren't aware of your condition. It's then very difficult once you are made aware of your condition, to advise on anything (although if I recall..... You never actually asked for advice haha!).

The second issue is the understanding of the US rating system which it appears even those who claim to understand it.... don't.

Lastly, of course everyone has bad sets/games. When you first posted the initial video, it didn't strike me as a particularly good game all around (not your ability as such, but the general match).

The subsequent videos have shown better shots and better match play - But again.... You haven't asked for advice, and you simply asked about rating. Seeing as I don't know the US rating system, I haven't commented on it!

All in all, the fact you have posted any video in the first place should be commended, and it would be great if everyone could.

I certainly will try and get some video over the next week with my new Garaydia ZLC.
 
I also am unaware of how the USATT point system works I mean myself I currently play in the first division of my City and Competed in county County Championships.
For example sake say if someone in the US played in their city league in the highest division what would be their average USATT rating?


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I also am unaware of how the USATT point system works I mean myself I currently play in the first division of my City and Competed in county County Championships.
For example sake say if someone in the US played in their city league in the highest division what would be their average USATT rating?

That's the thing, though - we don't really have city leagues and divisions, we have tournaments :). May be the closest equivalent would be something like "what's the average rating of players in the Open division at Westchester Open (popular monthly tournament in NYC suburb with consistently strong field)" - I think the answer for this is ~2500, with the typical winner around 2650. But the same tournament will have dozen events besides Open, where folks like NextLevel and myself can compete.

So, while in Europe/UK you'd want to know "which division you are in", here it's more like "what's your rating" (I'm around 1700 lately).
 
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It's a shame for your condition, NL. I don't know how painful or dangerous it is to move around with that, but with what you have, your footwork is not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Your shots are constricted, though, and you would certainly be a bit higher level if you were in ideal condition. But who is, right?

The biggest challenge is not match play but training. You can't get the reps your body needs to adapt. And it hurts more with less adrenalin.
 
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Okay. There is nothing sensitive - I am stating facts. I have posted 4 videos and it seems that people can't read between the lines. Based on the first set of this match, what would you rate me as?


based on that I would call liu guoliang and put you in the chinese team straight away.
 
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One of the things I think people should realize is, starting as an adult, with a chronic condition, NextLevel has worked pretty hard to figure out ways he could play that would help him improve and play at a decent level while not aggravating his condition too much and in spite of his physical limitations. To me, I am impressed by what he can do in spite of what he cannot.

In that first video, one thing that I think people were missing is that, despite all the mistakes and mishits, someone at a low level would not have the stroke mechanics, the way his racket pulls past the ball instead of banging into the ball, or the amount of spin. In spite of missing a lot, he is putting a lot of spin on the ball and a lot of pace. The key thing to see there is that he must be readying those long weird dead pushes wrong. It would be interesting to see if he started reading them better in the following games in that match.

NextLevel said he won the match 3-0 in spite of clearly not playing as well as he often can. But we all know that, playing against a pips player, especially in the first game, you can end up not looking very good as you feel out their pips: how the pips react, how they use them, what keeps coming back to you. So it might also be interesting to see the adjustments made in the next two games. But, NextLevel may not have even needed to make the adjustments if he knew he was able to win in many ways.

Anyway, I think it is extremely hard to tell someone's level from video. I can remember many times where I watched someone play and thought, "that person is way better than me. I have no chance." Only to find they were easy for me to play and beat despite how good they looked. It is more painful to remember all those countless times where I saw someone playing and thought, "I am going to smoke this guy. He can barely play." Only to find that I got smoked instead. :)

I remember one time where Wally Green said to me: "this is the only F_cking sport where someone can look like they are a high level player and actually suck and someone else can look like they F_cking suck eggs and are actually a pretty high level player."

So, our sport, which is also a game, has this complication where there is so much precision and technical detail involved and it does not simply rely on sheer power, that there is a lot of space for all kinds of unique play styles that may not look aesthetically pleasing, but are effective and work up to a level.
 
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Kukamonga is just attempting humor. Carl and archosaurus already know how I feel about such posters so I am loath to repeat myself but in the end, it would be nice to see the beginners in Burkina Faso so I can tell the beginners in Nigeria how terrible they are.
 
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Definitely higher than the 1550 TTR I mentioned before, maybe 100 more ;)

Give Next level some time in a few cities and tourneys.

He would be close enough to TTR 1700. Next Level doesn't have too many odd statistical losses, some, but not many and not too severe.

I am still laughing my azz off at all the 1200 USATT comments, haha, he would play 1200 TTR in a coma. Yeah, some of NL's things from his vids don't exactly look impressive, and that is I think his entire purpose of making this thread. NL does a lot of little things and strong things that add up to level. Some of it you can catch on vid, some of it you gotta be there and know hiz opponents. NL defeated an estimated TTR 1800-1900 level player (a difficult 2100+ rated guy who really plays at 2300+ level) the day after my NYC Adventure 3.0 at NYISC where we played until 2400 and ate until 0200.
 
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Give Next level some time in a few cities and tourneys.

He would be close enough to TTR 1700. Next Level doesn't have too many odd statistical losses, some, but not many and not too severe.

I am still laughing my azz off at all the 1200 USATT comments, haha, he would play 1200 TTR in a coma. Yeah, some of NL's things from his vids don't exactly look impressive, and that is I think his entire purpose of making this thread. NL does a lot of little things and strong things that add up to level. Some of it you can catch on vid, some of it you gotta be there and know hiz opponents. NL defeated an estimated TTR 1800-1900 level player (a difficult 2100+ rated guy who really plays at 2300+ level) the day after my NYC Adventure 3.0 at NYISC where we played until 2400 and ate until 0200.


You mean one of these guys here that people say are clearly over 2000? I have actually beaten both players once each in tournament play, though I have lost quite a few times to both a well.

 
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I think I've found a better way to approximate level rating.

I imagined Nextlevel playing against some of the better players in my club and doing a style matchup.

1. There's a guy with 1650 TTR and it would be a 50-50 match. This player is very safe and does topspins with middling speed and decent spin and is very very secure. I think he'll struggle based on how you're just killing good topspins past your opponent. However, his receive game is very strong and he has a very good forehand flip so perhaps you'll have less third ball opportunities. Placement is also a strength of his.

2. There's a guy who is at 1700 TTR and I think Nextlevel might struggle against him but he has a chance. This player is not only safe but very strong from both wings with good topspins.

3. A guy with 1750 TTR and I think Nextlevel will really struggle against him. This guy looks slow but has the fastest topspins I've ever seen with excellent spin. You also always have the feeling that he's always a step ahead of you.

4. A guy with 1500 TTR who everyone really struggles against the first time you face him as he's so unorthodox, but then again you are also a bit unorthodox. I think you might lose your first match up against him but afterwards it would be 70-30 in your favor. He's unfit and incredibly overweight but has fantastic feeling. His pushes are extremely heavy and hard to lift and anything spun up to his backhand is shot past you.

So overall, I think Der_Echte is correct with his assessment of "approaching 1700 TTR".

Lastly, kudos for reaching such a good level despite arthiritis.
 
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Great post anchorschmidt.

Just a note, Rheumatoid Arthritis is actually completely different than Osteoarthritis. RA is an autoimmune disease in which the body's immune system attacks the joints and some of the symptoms are pain, swollen joints, stiffness and limited mobility in the affected joints. I don't want to post images of what it can do in advanced stages because, frankly, the photos are a bit disgusting. But anyone who wants to look can do a google search for images associated with RA.

Anyway, I think this thread has been quite interesting and fun to participate in.

I am always interested in how matchups work in table tennis. I have a few friends who I win against 90% of the time; others I lose against 90% of the time; it is always interesting when one of those guys I usually beat plays one of those guys I usually lose to and usually wins against him.
 
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