H3 blue sponge vs H3 neo blue sponge

[Lazer]

I meant that it's slow and very controllable, beginners can't play with tensors, but have no issue with Chinese rubbers.

Beginners play fine with Tensors, most beginners I have seen has started with one.

Not much different technique is required either. H3 is just more demanding when You hit hard.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[John_]

Beginners play fine with Tensors, mist beginners I have seen has started with one.

Not much different technique is required either. H3 is just more demanding when You hit hard.

Cheers
L-zr

Are you out of your mind??? What beginner plays with tensors? Maybe you mean with non tacky linear rubbers, like the mkv and sriver??? Even hard chinese rubbers like the Chinese kiddos do.

Tensor rubbers are like Tenergies, high tension top sheet and strong sponge, it's bad for player development, waaaaay too fast and responsive! Better play hurricane 3 as a beginner than something like an elp, jesus!

 

[lodro]

If you've played with both the you will tell that there's a massive difference between them

I do play both and there isn't 😂

 

[Lazer]

Are you out of your mind??? What beginner plays with tensors? Maybe you mean with non tacky linear rubbers, like the mkv and sriver??? Even hard chinese rubbers like the Chinese kiddos do.

Tensor rubbers are like Tenergies, high tension top sheet and strong sponge, it's bad for player development, waaaaay too fast and responsive! Better play hurricane 3 as a beginner than something like an elp, jesus!

🤣🤣🤣 No, my club is sponsored by Donic sponsors my club and Bluefire, Accuda and Accuda blue are common. Mark V is rare. Those rubbers on Appelgren all play is a norm. I would probably recommend Mark V but with the proper blade it’s no problem.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Dr Evil]

My current best guesses regarding H3 blue sponge neo vs regular: (1) Top sheets are the same design. (2) Sponges are different. (3) Neo is factory boosted.

I've stopped looking for definitive answers. DHS doesn't provide much information. Reliable people disagree. The general consensus among Chinese coaches I've asked is "I'm not sure." Batch to batch variability makes it difficult to draw definitive answers based on how two particular rubbers compare. Top sheet tackiness can vary quite a lot. Perhaps the regular H3 top sheet tends to be tackier than the neo top sheet (as some insist), but I can't draw any conclusions from my own limited experience. It's clear, however, that right out of the package the neo sponge is more dynamic than the regular H3 sponge, though this could be from boosting alone or because it's a different sponge or both. Officially, the top sheets are the same, with the same ITTF registration number. DHS marketing material seems to suggest the neo sponge is different, and some experienced users insist that it's different, but others think the only difference is factory booster. Conclusion: I don't know. I have two old sheets of 40 degree provincial blue sponge, one neo and one regular, both in good condition. Top sheet tackiness about the same. With identical boosting, the neo sponge plays softer with more bounce. Just an anecdote.

 

[John_]

Of course everyone can play with it but on what level and how well? It’s not hard when you start learning tt with it and use it all time rigorously and grow up with it. But it’s hard to transition, e.g. Dima, former world No 1 couldn’t transition in an entire year.

Well, Dima is a player who was used to european rubbers, he thought that erasing the mucsle memory of all these years would be possible, but it's not. He plays at the top level too, the tolerancies are much higher at our level.

 

[John_]

🤣🤣🤣 No, my club is sponsored by Donic sponsors my club and Bluefire, Accuda and Accuda blue are common. Mark V is rare. Those rubbers on Appelgren all play is a norm. I would probably recommend Mark V but with the proper blade it’s no problem.

Cheers
L-zr

Well, you have sponsors. Plus the acuda is fine for lower level players, but the bluefire? I belive it's too fast and responsive for a beginner, they are just gonna be fighting them, aren't they having trouble controling them? Making unforced errors and then cutting the strokes to cope? Everyone I've seen use a higher level tensor takes much longer to develop confidence and stability, and on top of that they don't develop explosiveness and power on their own, but rely on the rubber to do it...

 

[John_]

My current best guesses regarding H3 blue sponge neo vs regular: (1) Top sheets are the same design. (2) Sponges are different. (3) Neo is factory boosted.

I've stopped looking for definitive answers. DHS doesn't provide much information. Reliable people disagree. The general consensus among Chinese coaches I've asked is "I'm not sure." Batch to batch variability makes it difficult to draw definitive answers based on how two particular rubbers compare. Top sheet tackiness can vary quite a lot. Perhaps the regular H3 top sheet tends to be tackier than the neo top sheet (as some insist), but I can't draw any conclusions from my own limited experience. It's clear, however, that right out of the package the neo sponge is more dynamic than the regular H3 sponge, though this could be from boosting alone or because it's a different sponge or both. Officially, the top sheets are the same, with the same ITTF registration number. DHS marketing material seems to suggest the neo sponge is different, and some experienced users insist that it's different, but others think the only difference is factory booster. Conclusion: I don't know. I have two old sheets of 40 degree provincial blue sponge, one neo and one regular, both in good condition. Top sheet tackiness about the same. With identical boosting, the neo sponge plays softer with more bounce. Just an anecdote.

I have 2 main reasons to think that it may just be a different sponge altogether and not boosted.

Neos don't shrink after time, while common factory tuned rubbers shrink, like yinhe moon, neos remain the same size before and after removal.

Neos don't loose feeling like tuned rubbers do. A yinhe big dipper will loose definition and feeling after a few months, requiring proper boosting. Neos keep the feeling they have and engagement until the top sheet seperates after playing for 5 years, or you bang it against the table trying to catch a half long serve. (don't ask me how I know)

What's your view on that?

 

[Robin0910]

Well, Dima is a player who was used to european rubbers, he thought that erasing the mucsle memory of all these years would be possible, but it's not. He plays at the top level too, the tolerancies are much higher at our level.

So that means it’s harder to use it properly. Therefore extremely few pro players use it outside China.

 

[John_]

So that means it’s harder to use it properly. Therefore extremely few pro players use it outside China.

It's not about using it properly, give a chinese player these soft rocketships and the results would be the same, they never used them on the forehand, they would be in Dima's shoes.

Give Dima long pips and the results would be even worse. It's a different type of rubber, if you're used to one thing for decades, how are you supposed to do something completely different just as well?

It's like telling an auto driver to just jump into a bmw rally car (that is rear wheel drive and manual), and expect them not only to figure out how the car works, but also beat the trained rally drivers that have been doing it for years. And of course do that while in the mud, pouring down rain, not exactly a walk in the park.

More like a personal invitation to meet a tree or a cliff...

See the analogy? Give the rubber to a beginner and he's going to learn it properly and without pressure. Put pressure on them and watch them grow, push them too much and watch them fling off the side of the cliff and into a lake. But there's a difference between giving them a tenergy or a 600hp bmw, and a hurricane 3 or a 300hp subaru. One will k*ll you, and the other will help you.

(as for the car analogy, bmw is rear wheels, subaru is awd, half power, double grip, similar to tenergy and hurricane, hurricane has more control and spin)

 

[Robin0910]

It's not about using it properly, give a chinese player these soft rocketships and the results would be the same, they never used them on the forehand, they would be in Dima's shoes.

Give Dima long pips and the results would be even worse. It's a different type of rubber, if you're used to one thing for decades, how are you supposed to do something completely different just as well?

It's like telling an auto driver to just jump into a bmw rally car (that is rear wheel drive and manual), and expect them not only to figure out how the car works, but also beat the trained rally drivers that have been doing it for years. And of course do that while in the mud, pouring down rain, not exactly a walk in the park.

More like a personal invitation to meet a tree or a cliff...

See the analogy? Give the rubber to a beginner and he's going to learn it properly and without pressure. Put pressure on them and watch them grow, push them too much and watch them fling off the side of the cliff and into a lake. But there's a difference between giving them a tenergy or a 600hp bmw, and a hurricane 3 or a 300hp subaru. One will k*ll you, and the other will help you.

(as for the car analogy, bmw is rear wheels, subaru is awd, half power, double grip, similar to tenergy and hurricane, hurricane has more control and spin)

Eventually a beginner would learn how to use a tensor, every kid at my club uses tensor rubbers like mx-p, bluefire, etc… of course he needs to learn to transition but if he can’t that means it’s not easy to use, just like long pimples. And again, very few professionals outside China use H3 for that reason. If it was objectively easy to use then everybody would use it outside China as well since it’s also cheap AF. This “easy to use” monologue is your subjective opinion which is not faulty since it’s subjective but you can see that most people don’t agree with you, datas don’t support your claim, thus it can’t be objective.

 

[Dr Evil]

I have 2 main reasons to think that it may just be a different sponge altogether and not boosted.

Neos don't shrink after time, while common factory tuned rubbers shrink, like yinhe moon, neos remain the same size before and after removal.

Neos don't loose feeling like tuned rubbers do. A yinhe big dipper will loose definition and feeling after a few months, requiring proper boosting. Neos keep the feeling they have and engagement until the top sheet seperates after playing for 5 years, or you bang it against the table trying to catch a half long serve. (don't ask me how I know)

What's your view on that?

The main reason I think it's probably factory boosted is the vacuum package. Why spend more on packaging just to include a glue layer? It seems unlikely to me. I don't recall whether the neo I bought new ended up shrinking after time, so can't give an opinion on that. I do recall it felt distinctly less dynamic (compared to when it was new) when I transferred it to a different blade, and then much more lively after boosting it.

 

[lodro]

Officially, the top sheets are the same, with the same ITTF registration number.

I do agree with just about everything you say in your post with the exception of this here comment . It is a well known tactic of not just DHS to change top-rubbers at leasure but using the same number.
So, same number = same rubber and same number = different rubber. 😁😁
And of course next month we will get something else 😁

 

[JJ Ng]

I am confused. Does DHS have special rubbers that others cannot buy? So the Ma Long rubber for $130 is actually the real deal?

Butterfly also give special rubbers to their pro's?

 

[John_]

I am confused. Does DHS have special rubbers that others cannot buy? So the Ma Long rubber for $130 is actually the real deal?

Butterfly also give special rubbers to their pro's?

Marketing, just so people can say they have ma long's rubber. I'm guessing that they are just tuned or have some other difference. Maybe they're harder or something, idk...

 

[John_]

The main reason I think it's probably factory boosted is the vacuum package. Why spend more on packaging just to include a glue layer? It seems unlikely to me. I don't recall whether the neo I bought new ended up shrinking after time, so can't give an opinion on that. I do recall it felt distinctly less dynamic (compared to when it was new) when I transferred it to a different blade, and then much more lively after boosting it.

I think it's most to avoid humidity, china's notorious for their humidity. Many of their training halls are constantly running dehumidifiers to keep their tacky rubbers playable. A friend had the opportunity to go to China and he tells me that humidity is insane there...

 

[John_]

Eventually a beginner would learn how to use a tensor, every kid at my club uses tensor rubbers like mx-p, bluefire, etc… of course he needs to learn to transition but if he can’t that means it’s not easy to use, just like long pimples. And again, very few professionals outside China use H3 for that reason. If it was objectively easy to use then everybody would use it outside China as well since it’s also cheap AF. This “easy to use” monologue is your subjective opinion which is not faulty since it’s subjective but you can see that most people don’t agree with you, datas don’t support your claim, thus it can’t be objective.

With the same logic, eventually players would learn to use hurricane. It's just that coaches don't recommend them because they don't have the spring effect.

When I showed my coach my neo he told me to throw it away and buy a tenergy. He said it's not for europeans and that our technique is made for tensors. But I just changed the technique and adapted. People are just unwilling to put effort into learning something different.

There's also the issue with constant raining and humidity that makes tacky rubbers unusable sometimes, which is the only reason I changed to glayzer 09c. And damn is it a rocket compared to the hurricane, much more responsive too, harder to control hard attacks...

 

[mihalichtheone]

I am confused. Does DHS have special rubbers that others cannot buy? So the Ma Long rubber for $130 is actually the real deal?

Butterfly also give special rubbers to their pro's?

Oh no more controversial answers incoming...

There's literally no reason (except for the pure forum discussions engagement enjoyment, then you can skip this post) to discuss NEO vs NON NEO. Come on, just buy two sheets and try it out, it's still cheaper than one sheet of Tenergy 05. Try it out, experience it yourself, pick whatever suits you and stop talking start training.

I think there's already millions of topics about H3, NEO, boosting, comm vs pro vs nat, etc.

I know this feeling, I've been guilty myself asking these questions, but proper googling helps find out many H3 answers.

Humans are experts at adapting. You can build muscle memory for ANY rubber and be proficient with it.
Pick one and go play.

 

[ben1229]

I am confused. Does DHS have special rubbers that others cannot buy? So the Ma Long rubber for $130 is actually the real deal?

Butterfly also give special rubbers to their pro's?

They do provide different rubber for players

 

[Egon]

I have 2 main reasons to think that it may just be a different sponge altogether and not boosted.

Neos don't shrink after time, while common factory tuned rubbers shrink, like yinhe moon, neos remain the same size before and after removal.

Neos don't loose feeling like tuned rubbers do. A yinhe big dipper will loose definition and feeling after a few months, requiring proper boosting. Neos keep the feeling they have and engagement until the top sheet seperates after playing for 5 years, or you bang it against the table trying to catch a half long serve. (don't ask me how I know)

What's your view on that?

I don't agree with You, there are rubbers that change forever after treatment. I noticed that if you fix the Seamun booster with vaseline oil, the boost lasts much longer, and on some rubbers, after such a boost, the rubber will never return to its original state.
You don’t know what compound use to enhance Neo at the factory.
Once upon a time, when the trees were small, before each game and training we re-glued our rubbers with quick rubber glue, because after re-gluing the rubber became more elastic, due to which additional speed, rotation and control appeared. Without fresh glue, the rubber was dead... After the ban on quick glue, something had to be done quickly, and that’s when the Neo versions appeared, reinforced at the factory.