H3 NEO for a beginner

[Musaab]

Hello folks, This post is a question and experience sharing in the same time, TT became my no1 sport and I decided to see where I can reach in it, I joined a club, and for my first custom setup I bought ZJK ALC, T64 for my back hand and DHS h3 neo commercial version, the blade and T64 made immediate and remarkable improvements to my game play but not the Chinese rubber, opponent back spin is almost impossible to be looped or top spinned, speed is not good, the easy shots that I do normally go directly to the net, I've read that Chinese rubbers need perfect technique and as a beginner I don't think I have it for now. I'm considering buying T80 FX but until then I thought of sticking with this setup and play with H3 on the BH, since my BH is better regarding technique. I've never seen any one talking about using H3 on BH while T64 on the FH is ok I guess as Mizutany use it on his FH,thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.

 

[bolterixus]

Not sure if tenergy is for a beginner but if you play well with it then that's fine. T64 is fine for the FH.

 

[passifid]

I had a similar experience to you, I bought some fast tensors but not tenergy coming from h3 neo fh and tg3 neo bh last set up for the reason I couldn't get underpin over. Using a non tacky is really helpful for that but I've found myself going back to the tack next rubber choice as now my technique is better I've realised my rubbers are too fast for me when playing proper strokes.

Might not me the same for you but I found the rubber speed and lack of tack to be amazing at retuning the ball with short strokes but now I am trying to loop albeit inconsistently for now along with other long stroked my fh us too fast. But that's possibly just my experience

 

[josephluck]

Unless your technique is solid and you are able to both read and generate heavy spin, tenergy will be too fast. If you are a beginner, id suggest storing your fast offensive setup safely, and but a good all-wood blade (something like tibhar stratus powerwood) with some offensive rubbers (like sriver). The more controllable setup will help you develop good ball feeling and technique. Tenergy and off+ blades require a solid and effective stroke and the extra pace of Tenergys spring sponge can make it quite difficult for beginners to control.

You are correct about the h3, the Chinese rubbers generally require quite a full and fast brushing motion that needs to be practised heavily. It can be difficult to adjust a European style of play to suit tacky rubbers, I tried myself once and gave up after a few weeks of net balls

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[NextLevel]

It all depends on what you are trying to do. Slower or tackier rubbers require relatively larger strokes, while faster or grippy rubbers with catapult require shorter strokes. The problem is that the catapult can interfere with a desire to make hard, spin drive contact on a low ball. But there are grippy rubbers with relatively low catapult compared to their peers (MX-S, Baracuda) and there are tacky rubbers with higher catapult than some of their peers (H3 Neo, Big Dipper). Passively or easily using the spin and pace of the opponent at mid distance is harder with a tacky rubber with low catapult, while controlling the spin and pace at the table is relatively harder when using a rubber with high catapult.

So if you want to use faster equipment at the table, you have to learn to relax your touch and caress the ball or how to graze it. Since this part of the game is generally harder than swinging hard and fast (for many beginners), it is easier to start with something slower or middle of the road that allows you swing a little bit while developing those timing, swing speed and soft hand skills over time that will then let you use something faster when you back off the table more while being able to control it at the table.

In the end, it all depends on how you want to play. Some people with coaching start with something faster and learn to control it over time. The coach has to be able to talk the student through the consequences and make them confident that missing is not the end of the world, but that they have to learn to relax and adjust their grip pressure when making certain shots. If you have challenges doing this and have to swing hard mostly close to the table, starting with something slower or tackier makes more sense.

 

[Musaab]

Thanks guy for your replies, I just wanted to make it clear that I'm so happy with T64 and I don't think I have a problem controlling it, I just had to adjust my strokes for some time and it just made my BH a fatal weapon, even the same underspin that I struggle with on my FH is no probelm when I'm in the position of a backhand shot. it is only H3 is giving my problem, because it is the same as if not worst than my old cheap premade paddle. it is just an idea that if I switch BH with FH, H3 NEO may be good as my BH brushing is way better than FH, it is just I've never seen anybody having H3 NEO on their BH.

 

[NextLevel]

If you try to play with fast with short quick strokes away from the table, H3 Neo is harder to use on the BH so you won't see it in the pros on the backhand unless with a custom sponge that pros will have access to. Many amateurs use it, especially those that play close to the table in China or people who just like cheaper rubbers. Skyline is preferred though by some players because of less tack though it is still slow in termms of catapult. With tacky rubbers, passive blocking is affected so just know what you are getting into. It is not impossible though - good luck. I used Big Dipper on my backhand for a while and played some of my best matches with it it.

 

[SpinWins]

I am in same situation and went Skyline 3 NEO on the FH. For the Bh I use Daweii XP2008. The Xp2008 is very good and consistent for me on bh side. I will post how I feel about Skyline later this week when I get it. Currently have Hurricane 2 on FH. No problem with looping, but rubber is just a little fast for me in feeling and I wanted to try a little slower on fh to learn more the control of the ball.

You can see in my profile I start with Rhzym on fh which is fantastic rubber, but I believe for a more developed short game than mine.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think NextLevel, once again has really answered the questions very completely. It's great to have a guy like him around on TTDaily because he really knows his stuff about a large variety of equipment and who and when it would be good for specific kinds of players.

If you missed the info, one of the big, important details is that H3 and that kind of tacky rubber usually requires a bigger swing and more powerful impact. It also requires good touch in how you contact the ball if you want to generate good spin.

The issue of needing a larger swing and bigger impact is why it is so rare to find a pro using this kind of rubber for his/her BH. Whereas, the large swing that is possible on FH goes well with this kind of rubber.

Many amateurs use H3 or other slow, non-catapult, tacky rubbers for BH. But usually that is more effective close to the table and becomes harder to use the further you get from the table because of the lack of catapult.

What I would say is: see how T64 feels on your FH. While you do that, see how H3 feels on BH. If that switch works well, then keep it for a while to see how it works for a few weeks. If you feel it doesn't work well, put the T64 back on BH and get a higher throw, modern Euro/Japanese catapult type rubber like Xiom Vega Pro which also has a good amount of control. Or a rubber with high grip and a little less catapult like Donic Baracuda or Tibhar Evolution MX-S where the rubber has some catapult but not too much and can help you learn to generate spin.

My guess is that, if H3 doesn't work for your BH any of those options should work better for FH than H3 or T64.


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[Pnachtwey]

I don't see where there is anything special about H3 Neo or any of the Neos where they wouldn't be good for beginners. A beginner should be able to use H3 Neo no problem. Although it is somewhat tacky it isn't tacky like H3. A lot of beginner pre-made DHS paddles come with H2,H3, or H3 Neo on the FH and G666 on the BH.

I do think the Hurricanes and other Neos are good FH rubber. H2 Neo has worked OK on the BH for me but I prefer thinner rubbers on the BH. IQUL, Air Illumina at about 1.8mm to 2mm is fine. Someday I will try XP2008 but I read that it is heavy. I can afford it. I will buy one the next time I order something from Colestt.com.

All rubbers require good foot work and strokes to play a higher levels. There is nothing special about Chinese rubbers except some are more tacky than others.

I should add the Chinese stroke and European stoke crap to my myth busters thread.
My coach is from China. I don't see anything particularly Chinese about his strokes. He makes the stroke that is appropriate at the time. The ball doesn't care about the stroke except at the moment of impact. The stroke before and after doesn't matter to the ball's trajectory.

What I like about the cheap DHS rubbers is that their top sheets always grip even when old. They don't oxidize like IQUL will after a few months.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think that is a pretty good post by Pnachtey.

Whatever rubber you use and get used to should be fine.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

One thing I would say, using a blade like ZJK ALC for a beginner isn't usually optimal but some people can get away with learning on a blade that is that fast. However, most people would be better off with a 5 ply all wood blade in the All+/Off- speed range. One with good feeling is ideal. The good thing about those kinds of blades for a beginner is that they help you feel what you are doing better. They help you feel the ball while it is on the rubber/blade face better and the help you feel the kind and quality of your contact better. Which in the long run helps you get better and learn to spin the ball more in a shorter period of time. It is harder to feel certain things with a carbon blade and a great blade like that one can make contact which is a little off feel better than it is.

Another thing to note: it is usually not the greatest idea for a beginner to start out with two rubbers as specialized and as different as H3 and T64. But sometimes setups that are less than optimal still end up doing a good enough job because this sport is much more about technique than it is about equipment.


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[Shuki]

i hate h3 even for high level players. if you dont have the movement to get into place and do a big stroke with it it's really a hinderance.

 

[darnner123]

I wouldn't recommend h3 or tenergy for players who just started. A softer sponge rubber with a higher control instead of speed and spin would allow you to develop your shots easily. This would also mean you won't learn some weird strokes that might become bad habits if you are relying on the rubber to get it over the table.