Harimoto loses to balding Grandpa

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The funny thing is that Chuang is actually older than this "grandpa" lol

chuang is great grand pa, with hair
his student is nearly topping his world ranking too.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

CHUANG Chih-Yuan is also losing Grandpa... at least in G1... 6-11 !!!
and i don't know whether he has a hand injury or not

his injury is worse... spinal/back...
We all hoping he can hang in there till Paris OG

Chuang waited his life time to have 3 strong players.
Chiang Hung Chieh was supposed to be that, but injury took over and CCA didn't really rise up to WR20.
By Paris OG, it will be the first time Taiwan has a world top 10 and 2 x world top 20.

Korea, Japan, always had this luxury
Last time Taiwan had 2 was Chiang Peng Lung and Chuang Chih Yuan.
But speed glue ban took Chiang out as fast as his backhand punch

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

i like CCY. good guy, always good sportsmanship, even if his TT is really very classic with little surprise.

 

[Choosikick]

Every person has bad days when everything goes wrong. Surprisingly, professional table tennis players are also people...

 

[Metaxa]

And I had only just written this about Harimoto...
I'am not surprised.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

i like CCY. good guy, always good sportsmanship, even if his TT is really very classic with little surprise.

Chuang is actually remarkable.
His story prior to success (all credits to Chuang Mama), to during success, to building his own ping pong center, to being player/coach, to taking his students to WTT to act as a sparing partner and to experience WTT (coaching Chuang during matches), is really all remarkable.

I cannot even name another example of someone who can tick all these boxes (or even half)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Well, the Japanese media was calling Harimoto a 100 year talent since he was 14. The best talent in 100 years. So he hasnt lived up to the high expectations or his early career trajectory. Nobody else in the past 20 years has his talent, so we pin the hopes on him.

He kind of has performed better than almost anyone outside of the CNT since at least 2003. So, I don't think the media calling him a 100 year talent and him being ranked #4 in the world would contradict that.

Again, name someone not on CNT who won the World Championships in the past 20 years. Olympics? Who was the last player not on CNT to win the Olympic Gold in Men's TT singles? I mean, he is only 20 years old. Nowhere near his prime.

How old was Ma Long when he won his first WTTC? How old was Fan Zhendong? Both were prodigies in the men's tour from a very young age and both took quite a while to "break through".

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He kind of has performed better than almost anyone outside of the CNT since at least 2003. So, I don't think the media calling him a 100 year talent and him being ranked #4 in the world would contradict that.

Again, name someone not on CNT who won the World Championships in the past 20 years. Olympics? Who was the last player not on CNT to win the Olympic Gold in Men's TT singles? I mean, he is only 20 years old. Nowhere near his prime.

How old was Ma Long when he won his first WTTC? How old was Fan Zhendong? Both were prodigies in the men's tour from a very young age and both took quite a while to "break through".

When you are involved in chats, most of the times, there are trolling involved
I can't say I have a different thought here, haha.

Harimoto has one of the best feats against Chinese players these few years.
People are always quick to remember the bad (if we include no sympathy for injuries), or choose to ignore the facts of the goods and just fall for ERT's agenda.
Its not the first time TB is using ERT's agenda to create a busy/controversial thread on TTD (TB has been on a mission to create threads of late).

Below screenshot as Harimoto last major contribution as evidence. and I do ask, who in the past 100 years can do that? the answer is GOAT level canditate that can do that (ie, the Swedes), not even the Germans has managed to do that...

A year ago, Wang and Fan looks a lot more healthy than recently... they were invincible then.
Not to mention, home ground advantage with "NO FANS" allowed, but then you had few hundred Chinese fans turning up in an isolation tournament, while other countries couldn't get a single Fan in....special treatment noted once again.

I'm not really a fan of HT, but he is a lonely warrior at the moment and badly need reinforcements
If he was born few years earlier, and JM eye staying healthy, maybe today's HT with a good JM would been a lot more exciting for Japan.

Never the less, one in a century is not untrue.
and no matter what, HT result to date is worthy of respects, not sourness treatment when his body is breaking down.
I wish his injury a speedy recovery
Lin took few months.... to heal

 

[Tony Funk My Racket]

But when you just saw the video, how old did you think he was?

He's a bit on the heavy side but the way he moves I thought it's anywhere 40-55 imho

 

[TensorBackhand]

He's a bit on the heavy side but the way he moves I thought it's anywhere 40-55 imho

Lol, 55 is well within grandpa range.

 

[TensorBackhand]

He kind of has performed better than almost anyone outside of the CNT since at least 2003. So, I don't think the media calling him a 100 year talent and him being ranked #4 in the world would contradict that.

Again, name someone not on CNT who won the World Championships in the past 20 years. Olympics? Who was the last player not on CNT to win the Olympic Gold in Men's TT singles? I mean, he is only 20 years old. Nowhere near his prime.

How old was Ma Long when he won his first WTTC? How old was Fan Zhendong? Both were prodigies in the men's tour from a very young age and both took quite a while to "break through".

Ok thats no problem. You have an opinion, mine is different. Your opinion is that he has done well enough and doesnt need to change anything. He is only 20, and may in fact win the big titles going forward.

My observation is that his chances of winning the big titles seem to be diminishing as he ages. I would prefer he make some change to give himself a chance to make the leap.

Because we cant do an objective AB test, we will never know for sure. But the coming decade will tell. You may end up being right, or his performance may just get worse or stay the same.

 

[TensorBackhand]

And I had only just written this about Harimoto...
I'am not surprised.

I have the same observation as you. When he was 16, he had more speed and that was a bit of his x-factor. At 20, he is more normal speed, but without the power and impact of the CNT players.

So he just seems less surprising or less dangerous as a player.

 

[Metaxa]

I have the same observation as you. When he was 16, he had more speed and that was a bit of his x-factor. At 20, he is more normal speed, but without the power and impact of the CNT players.

So he just seems less surprising or less dangerous as a player.

It is not just his speed but mainly his reactivity. That is obviously not bad but is not top compared to other top players and certainly not in the following movement BH > FH > FH > Body > FH. After this series, he hesitates for a split second and is too late because he doubts whether the next ball will then be played to his BH vs FH.
I have seen this several times in his games. He is then perplexed and has no reaction anymore.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I have the same observation as you. When he was 16, he had more speed and that was a bit of his x-factor. At 20, he is more normal speed, but without the power and impact of the CNT players.

So he just seems less surprising or less dangerous as a player.

less than 1 year ago, he beated FZD and WCQ on the same day.
Harimoto is a momentum player and he's lacking too much in confidence. Thats why he cho's so much to pump himself up. but when the momentum is there, watch out !

He's not in a great period, we can see that in 2023 with ups and downs. but on a good day, when he is in the zone, he can beat anybody and i'm sure we will see those days again from time to time.

 

[TensorBackhand]

less than 1 year ago, he beated FZD and WCQ on the same day.
Harimoto is a momentum player and he's lacking too much in confidence. Thats why he cho's so much to pump himself up. but when the momentum is there, watch out !

He's not in a great period, we can see that in 2023 with ups and downs. but on a good day, when he is in the zone, he can beat anybody and i'm sure we will see those days again from time to time.

yes, I can see that as well. When he gets hot, he can sometimes look like the best player in the world. So definitely the door has not closed on him yet

 

[NextLevel]

Ok thats no problem. You have an opinion, mine is different. Your opinion is that he has done well enough and doesnt need to change anything. He is only 20, and may in fact win the big titles going forward.

My observation is that his chances of winning the big titles seem to be diminishing as he ages. I would prefer he make some change to give himself a chance to make the leap.

Because we cant do an objective AB test, we will never know for sure. But the coming decade will tell. You may end up being right, or his performance may just get worse or stay the same.

That's not so much his opinion. Carl's opinion as I understand it is that what Harimoto is doing is incredibly difficult and when you look at the big picture, he is still probably even with all his mishaps the best performing non-Chinese player over the past 8 years or so. The issue is really how consistent the Chinese have been. If Harimoto in 2023 had been the Harimoto that came to Houston in 2021, he would have a medal today. I have no doubt about it. That the Chinese team have worked with the current system to dominate the rankings and get all the medals again makes his work harder. But ultimately, to me, he and Lin Yun Ju are doing well. It's just a damn hard opponent they are up against.

 

[TensorBackhand]

That's not so much his opinion. Carl's opinion as I understand it is that what Harimoto is doing is incredibly difficult and when you look at the big picture, he is still probably even with all his mishaps the best performing non-Chinese player over the past 8 years or so. The issue is really how consistent the Chinese have been. If Harimoto in 2023 had been the Harimoto that came to Houston in 2021, he would have a medal today. I have no doubt about it. That the Chinese team have worked with the current system to dominate the rankings and get all the medals again makes his work harder. But ultimately, to me, he and Lin Yun Ju are doing well. It's just a damn hard opponent they are up against.

Yeah I can see that Harimoto gets hot and plays incredibly well. But will he get hot during world championship week? We have to wait and see.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That's not so much his opinion. Carl's opinion as I understand it is that what Harimoto is doing is incredibly difficult and when you look at the big picture....

well, since TB is blinded of Harimoto's results last year, especially when he says something out of thin air like the below:

He seems to have stalled over the past several years.

I mean, who can beat Wang Chuqin and Fan Zhendong on the same day? or Chinese no 1 and no 2 of any generation?

and that is called stalling over the past several years? WOW

Well, since Harimoto went into the top 10 in May of 2018, he has featured in top 3 or 4 in the world or more than 2/3 of the world ranking list since then.

If we were to make it Top 5, the percentage will shoot up to 80% or so.
This shows harimoto has maintained a high level performance for a very long time and reached career high number 2 in Dec of 2022. As CNT mens public enemy no 1, and the best non-Chinese player over the past 5 years, HT is doing pretty good imo.

HT between July 2022 to May 2023 has played some of his best table tennis of his career against the Chinese.

Now if that is stalling.... then TB is a troll.

I do think Harimoto should stop playing men's numbers (like how Lin and Chuang would drop it).
OG is Teams and XD. Harimoto will not be playing MD in the teams, just like Lin.
So Harimoto should put less workload on his body going forward.
The amount of tournaments of late is also really pathetic, but since WTT change the points to 12 month max... players need to make up points before OG seeding is annouced....

 

[TensorBackhand]

By "stall", I don't mean he isn't a good player. It just means his performance trajectory seems to have flatlined. He is performing at a high level, but he doesn't seem to be moving onto the higher level by winning major titles or even 2nd tier titles.

So if he is happy where he is, then good for him. If he wants to be world #1, I personally would like to see him make a change. This is not trolling, just my opinion. I could imagine him being the Andy Roddick of TT, the consistent #3 or #4 for the next decade. But I would like to see him make a leap to challenge for #1.

His own announced goal was to win the gold medal at 2020 olympics, well he fell way short of that. Yes, he gets hot on certain days, but I see his basic average level to be still a step below the top players. I think he would give himself a better chance to win the big title if he made a change. I'm not making this opinion based on 1 match against Grandpa, but he's basically been the #4 best player for the past several years. But his ranking hasn't led him to winning many titles.

But if you feel differently, you are entitled to that opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[TensorBackhand]

BTW, I also don't really understand the "non-Chinese" argument. If ML, FZD, WCQ were each from different countries, would that make Harimoto's results better or worse?