How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

says toooooo much choice!!
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On the contrary, vs the pips player, you were playing on less than 1/2 efficiency and easily handled everything without taking undo risk. You knew he wasn't going to threaten your return and you flat hit or medium spin attacked whenever you wanted to.
True, I didn’t feel pressured by Steve and his BH anti spin.
should have won 3 zip.
Adrain, our best player with an 80% win rate, lost to Steve ( Steve was playing up a division ) Adrian played a lot of high spin slow / medium paced loops straight to Steve’s BH, Steve ate these up and was smacking his lips in anticipation of a popped up ball that he crushed with his flat hit FH.
He pulled Adrian in and out, side to side well.
sometimes it’s courses for 🐎!!
 
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The funny thing when I say I enjoy playing powerful shots is that it will give you the wrong impression. My game, because I can't practice serves, is heavily rally focused. I serve mostly backspin with no spin and topspin variations on occasion, and play a 3rd ball spin up if the ball doesn't popup and a fifth ball attack with power off the block and to one of the corners. I open with slow heavy topspin on both sides, especially on the backhand side. This gets me into trouble with the better players since my knees are shit, but most players just hate the slow spin and block everything long and pop everything up.

I am going to find a Korean video which should be legendary and better known. What the guy said about how he improved quickly should be understood by more amateur players. I followed a similar path to developing my game and if I Was shorter or my knees were better, it would have paid off more easily.

NL,

The makers of the vid... the cute Baerong-Yorong women, now are coaches at this guy's club.
Yes, this stroy of this guy is a LOT more common these days as the pros retiring and opening clubs/coaching are modern 2 wing spinning players, a stark contrast to old-school Korean way of TT play. (no BH topspin and all FH all day)
 
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IB66,

You ought to come to USA and play some tourneys... and face some 10-11 yr old boys whose fathers will FLOG them if they lose to an overweight middle-aged man !!! When they are halfway through match and losing points and games and the father is there giving the stink-face and death stare... kid under some real pressure.

Well, they won't get flogged, but will get harshly talked to and a lot of extra homework and chores and such is gunna happen. That is what some kids face if their father is from a certain culture.

How do I play vs that type? I play to win. I am wearing my uniform and showed up. It is time to quit asking questions and play as a professional.

I had a win in a tourney after I retired vs one of those after I retired... dad took him outside to the side of the building and it got real. Kid got told how embarrassing it was for a champion to lose to such as me who was hundreds of points under-rated...
Haven’t come across that type of parent yet!! Pushy but not THAT pushy!!!
Saw a video a few years ago, and a national level coach was saying that the youngsters that cry after losing a match ( self induced, not cos daddy was gonna be reading them the riot act, or because they were afraid of such) sometimes, not always, become excellent players, and more often than not.
 
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It is a bit different in a team competition but if you and your teammates are all on the same page, then there should be a healthy balance between your personal improvement goals, and their desire to win matches. The USATT rating and individualistic system has its benefits and demerits, but one of the good things about it, especially the weekly league system which some clubs have, is that you get to play people around your level, play a lot of matches.

I don't think many coaches focus enough on just basic spinning of the ball with the wrists at the lower levels. To me if you spin the ball as an adult player, that is all you really should ask for.

I spent a lot of time wasted on regretting winning and losing matches. It basically slowed adaptation and led to focusing on things that delayed improvement. While it is important to be a strategic player, make sure that you aren't playing in a way you don't enjoy for fear of losing. IF you practice looping/spinning enough and figure out how to make the ball do what you want it to do, especially in response to the opponent's spin or lack thereof, it is a massive game changer.
Sad that no one yet pounded da like button on this.
 
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Haven’t come across that type of parent yet!! Pushy but not THAT pushy!!!
Saw a video a few years ago, and a national level coach was saying that the youngsters that cry after losing a match ( self induced, not cos daddy was gonna be reading them the riot act, or because they were afraid of such) sometimes, not always, become excellent players, and more often than not.
IB66,

These parents are not Helicopter parents, they are Special Forces Air Assault Strike Force parents that would make Chuck Norris look weak.
 
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Losing can be exciting. My love for TT is at least partly due to how much I can learn and improve on. It's exciting to learn new things and then apply them in matches.

Last week I lost to an antispin BH player, for example. I beat him 3-1 the week before but he had just switched from LP to anti. Last week he was more used to the rubber and gave me a lot of uncomfortable dead balls. It was mildly disappointing to lose but quite exciting to find out another area I can improve on. How do I attack half-long dead balls? Particularly with my already weak BH? My focus has been on BH loops vs backspin and topspin, now I have another thing to add to my training regimen.

After getting some dead ball serves from the robot, I've found it to be actually a pretty low hanging fruit. It's quite easy if you can loop backspins and topspins. It doesn't fit into my training regimen yet, so there's a good chance I'd still lose to him this week, but I can't wait to get to working on it!
 
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Greetings @Tony's Table Tennis:

I have been reviewing earlier posts in the thread and came across your feedback

I took it to heart, although watched only initial 50 points of a January 2023 match, noting each takeaway along the way (i've played Jeremy many times)

I jotted down in my player notebook what makes him uncomfortable and what his strengths are

I am happy to share I was able to overcome Jeremy in our most recent bout (3 - 1) after consistently losing to him in the recent (match video in earlier post #528)

There are literally hundreds of activities you could be doing, yet your time and suggestion showed me a way to study my match play in developing my game (and training?) Thank you,

LDM7

Hello LDM7

One my coaches taught me when I was still a kid back then.
Its not just about playing table tennis, its thinking table tennis and talking table tennis.

I told him, I understand. But did I really? NO.
Not until I was a coach myself.

I totally forgot of my post do you in Jul 2022.
That in a nutshell, is thinking and talking table tennis.
If you are able to visualize your game, your strength, your weakness, your opponent, all in your head, you are thinking and talking TT. (Sounds like Sherlock Holmes now haha)

Taking notes and reflecting the good and the bad (I think for anything in life) is a good habit have.
Congratulation on your win against Jeremy
 
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LDM had three league matches tonite at a local place... was prolly ranked bottom of table and prolly should have won the table, he went 2-1 with a 12-14 loss in the 5th set.

One match he came back from 0-2 games to win vs the number one ranked in the group, but really, he should have been 2-0 if he played efficiently. He was tight and not setting himself up well or in crucial moments mis-hit... the latter games did a lot of the same but less, and with his heavy spinning on some balls it was enough to get it done. Once LDM7 gets better fundamentals, we will do LP specific training, how to setup and open/finish vs them. Right now, he needs to get more solid first. still, LDM7 won vs a player ranked a couple hundred points higher with an overall better record vs the rest of the locals. That was not a light win.

He worked way harder than he should have if he watched his opponents' trends and tendencies more and made the effective shot decisions. he could have defeated everyone 3-0 average score of 11-7, but he seemed to want extra practice and give extra chances to his opponents. He was still tight in more points and games tonite than he wanted to be, but overall, he found a way to be loose enough to attack and land when he needed it. He found a way to get a predictable ball when he needed it. I hope he can discover more and more of this in future matches.

The loss in the 5th hurt as he was up 10-8 and did not notice me asking for timeout, and also on 11-11. I wanted to make sure he was going to serve a ball that sets him up predictably, but he played fair England and allowed deuce. At least he got himself in the position to win vs a player higher ranked. He will remember this moment and in future situations in the 5th at 9-9 or 10-10, he will either use a timeout to visualize how he will win the next two points , or play the percentages if there is no timeout remaining. This bitter moment will help him down the road.

On the contrary, he won a match 3-2 vs a difficult higher ranked player... LDM7 was leading way in front throughout the 5th in firm control of the match not getting tight, not playing brain dead, but playing loose and high percentage enough... and attacking with spin or power depending on the height of the ball. LDM7's win vs him was the coffin nail that will send that player to the next lower table. (you lose your group you have to play one table lower the next week)

LDM7 will look at the match vids and cringe a little or a lot at a lot of the nuances he did not so well (that we discussed) and that/those cringe moment(s) should serve as motivation to remediate them.

Overall, he was starting to show his improved level of training in light competitive matches (local league) which is a good sign and cause to celebrate in a small way over post match food. LDM7 knows he is tracking in the right direction and knows how things can go in competitive matches while he is in training and improvement mode.
 
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IB66,

You ought to come to USA and play some tourneys... and face some 10-11 yr old boys whose fathers will FLOG them if they lose to an overweight middle-aged man !!! When they are halfway through match and losing points and games and the father is there giving the stink-face and death stare... kid under some real pressure.

Well, they won't get flogged, but will get harshly talked to and a lot of extra homework and chores and such is gunna happen. That is what some kids face if their father is from a certain culture.

How do I play vs that type? I play to win. I am wearing my uniform and showed up. It is time to quit asking questions and play as a professional.

I had a win in a tourney after I retired vs one of those after I retired... dad took him outside to the side of the building and it got real. Kid got told how embarrassing it was for a champion to lose to such as me who was hundreds of points under-rated...

Der said:
You ought to come to USA and play some tourneys... and face some 10-11 yr old boys whose fathers will FLOG them if they lose to an overweight middle-aged man !!!

IB, you're jst gonna sit there & take dat' smack from der? lol

well ... if you ever visit anywhere in California, i volunteer der picking you up and we will feed you the best chinese & korean BBQ around

then we hit up a table & settle dinner bill, fair & square

just joshing IB, just joshing ...

when's your next match anyway?
 
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Hi LDM7,

I’m playing severe catch up on this thread, busy week last week!!

Looking good, so much improvement, SO MUCH!!! When I remember back to some early footage, chalk and cheese, You are putting the effort in big time, assisted by your partner in crime, Der.!!! Compliments to both of you!!!

Serves - as Wrighty mentioned, MUCH better, giving em issues, nice!!
movement - way better, a little bouncy, but I’d rather see bounce than no bounce (unlike me, static, ha ha, stuck to the spot!!)

Patience - putting on pressure and attacking more of the right balls, being more picky.

Some good backhands.

You are improving very nicely!!!
You looked like a better player than your opponents, this doesn’t mean you’ll win!!! This is TT after all and looks are deceiving!!!
it looks like you ‘SHOULD’ win. Eventually you‘ll put these guys away, no probs!!

heLL0 IB66,

good looking out & tks 4 the encouragement

i have been putting in the reps and my training base level is showing

i have to admit league matches are still foreign to me and SO FREAKING SCARY

i do realize it is a necessary evil though ...
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
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Der said:


IB, you're jst gonna sit there & take dat' smack from der? lol

well ... if you ever visit anywhere in California, i volunteer der picking you up and we will feed you the best chinese & korean BBQ around

then we hit up a table & settle dinner bill, fair & square

just joshing IB, just joshing ...

when's your next match anyway?
Next match is on Thursday, slow week, only 2 coaching sessions and 1 match.
We are playing a team 2nd in our division, we are 5th.
Our best player is out of the country on business, but we have a young junior who will be playing. He's good enough to win a couple of games, it will be interesting to see how he gets on.
The other players, Seyi and myself could pick up 2 each, depending on the night. It could be a close match 5-5, 6-4
If my form stays good, I could win 3, but their best player is ranked much higher, I lost 3-1 to him 1st half of the season. His son, also ranked higher lost 3-2 in a tight 5th end, looking for revenge!!!!!

Like yourself, I'm use to taking the odd smack from der!!!! LOL
 
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LDM had three league matches tonite at a local place... was prolly ranked bottom of table and prolly should have won the table, he went 2-1 with a 12-14 loss in the 5th set.

One match he came back from 0-2 games to win vs the number one ranked in the group, but really, he should have been 2-0 if he played efficiently. He was tight and not setting himself up well or in crucial moments mis-hit... the latter games did a lot of the same but less, and with his heavy spinning on some balls it was enough to get it done. Once LDM7 gets better fundamentals, we will do LP specific training, how to setup and open/finish vs them. Right now, he needs to get more solid first. still, LDM7 won vs a player ranked a couple hundred points higher with an overall better record vs the rest of the locals. That was not a light win.

He worked way harder than he should have if he watched his opponents' trends and tendencies more and made the effective shot decisions. he could have defeated everyone 3-0 average score of 11-7, but he seemed to want extra practice and give extra chances to his opponents. He was still tight in more points and games tonite than he wanted to be, but overall, he found a way to be loose enough to attack and land when he needed it. He found a way to get a predictable ball when he needed it. I hope he can discover more and more of this in future matches.

The loss in the 5th hurt as he was up 10-8 and did not notice me asking for timeout, and also on 11-11. I wanted to make sure he was going to serve a ball that sets him up predictably, but he played fair England and allowed deuce. At least he got himself in the position to win vs a player higher ranked. He will remember this moment and in future situations in the 5th at 9-9 or 10-10, he will either use a timeout to visualize how he will win the next two points , or play the percentages if there is no timeout remaining. This bitter moment will help him down the road.

On the contrary, he won a match 3-2 vs a difficult higher ranked player... LDM7 was leading way in front throughout the 5th in firm control of the match not getting tight, not playing brain dead, but playing loose and high percentage enough... and attacking with spin or power depending on the height of the ball. LDM7's win vs him was the coffin nail that will send that player to the next lower table. (you lose your group you have to play one table lower the next week)

LDM7 will look at the match vids and cringe a little or a lot at a lot of the nuances he did not so well (that we discussed) and that/those cringe moment(s) should serve as motivation to remediate them.

Overall, he was starting to show his improved level of training in light competitive matches (local league) which is a good sign and cause to celebrate in a small way over post match food. LDM7 knows he is tracking in the right direction and knows how things can go in competitive matches while he is in training and improvement mode.

LET'S GO DO WORK Der!
 
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@Wrighty67

know that there's a team of us with you each time you pick up a racket

turn to us with a nod when you miss

eye us with a wink when you land

find confidence from within for you posses the inner strength and solution

trust your training and let it flow

Yet most importantly - WIN OR LOSE INDEED DOES NOT DEFINE US

Knock it down Mate, Together!


P.S. pls remember & share a fuNNy (or joyful) moment from match (y)
Thanks for the very kind words of support, that made me smile.

My match was mixed - I beat their no 1 player 3-2 after being match point downing game 3 so I am very pleased with that. I lost however to the other two players who I should have beaten.

I will share video later..
 
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Ok LDM and friends - here's last nights story (of 3rds..)

In short, I won 1/3 but the 1 was against their top player (Tony) who I have never beaten before. He was 2-0 up and 10-9 match point up in 3rd and somehow I managed to claw back that game and then then win the next 2 fairly easily to take the match.

On the other side, I lost two matches against players I should be beating (and beat in practice matches at club)

The match vs Richard is always a tough one for me - he is a super offensive player and just batters everything. If I am not careful it feels like an assault, and I cannot get into the game to make my own attacks - which is what happened last night as you will see.

The match vs Tim was a bit tame and defensive - not proud of this one.

My take homes in terms of areas for focus and improvement;

1. Serve returns - consistently letting me down again

2. Lack of dynamic footwork/movement that sees me out of position and too close to the table for any long or faster ball (strangely this seems to be a league match related issue - I move much better in club practice matches and in any doubles)

3. FH stroke is still too locked at elbow and driven by shoulder - I even see this manifest in my warm up and I am determined to fix it.

We won the match 8-2 which is good.

Vs Richard


Vs Tony


Vs Tim

 
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Wrightly67,

I know you have a coach but I posted this video for you more than anyone else. I will comment on the matches later, but Richard is the kind of lower rated player than any stronger player will have a problem with if you are not trying to take away what he does well. In your case, your strengths fed into his strengths and your thought process lost you because you were not taking away what he does well with how you set up the points.

But watch the video below first and think about how you can rebuild your wrist usage to allow for more flexibility on both sides. You hold the bat like a club and it isn't going to get much better without taking a step back to make it better. Might require the offseason, but you need to develop the ability to whip the ball.

 
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Wrightly67,

I know you have a coach but I posted this video for you more than anyone else. I will comment on the matches later, but Richard is the kind of lower rated player than any stronger player will have a problem with if you are not trying to take away what he does well. In your case, your strengths fed into his strengths and your thought process lost you because you were not taking away what he does well with how you set up the points.

But watch the video below first and think about how you can rebuild your wrist usage to allow for more flexibility on both sides. You hold the bat like a club and it isn't going to get much better without taking a step back to make it better. Might require the offseason, but you need to develop the ability to whip the ball.

Hi NL

I did watch this when you first posted it and liked the approach, but need to rewatch it and see what practical steps I can take to work on that wrist and whip.

This weekend I spent some time on my FH trying to focus on whip and hips - does this look more like it or is it still miles off? I just want to know if this feeling is what I am looking for.

 
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This conversation is great. I don't see the split between thinking about technique and tactics quite the same. Like you have to work with both from the start or you are just holding yourself back for no reason. Wherever your technikque is ATM, there are always better and worse patterns and tactics you can use. For example when I step around to play a fh I always play down the line. The is a bad, exploitable tendency that I need to change. Where I play now is about 80% penholders, playing to their fh when I took a positioning risk is so dumb. My pivot technique also needs work, but there is no reason not to change the techniques and tactic at the same time.
 
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This conversation is great. I don't see the split between thinking about technique and tactics quite the same. Like you have to work with both from the start or you are just holding yourself back for no reason. Wherever your technikque is ATM, there are always better and worse patterns and tactics you can use. For example when I step around to play a fh I always play down the line. The is a bad, exploitable tendency that I need to change. Where I play now is about 80% penholders, playing to their fh when I took a positioning risk is so dumb. My pivot technique also needs work, but there is no reason not to change the techniques and tactic at the same time.
It doesn't need to be split, but you need to prioritize. If your FH down the line is weak, for example, then you should indeed do that more often in games to improve it even if it loses you points. That's assuming you can do it in practice first, of course. This would be an example of prioritization.

If you can do both cross court and down the line well, then you should adjust your tactics to more mixture of cross court and to the elbow (not as useful against penholders, of course). This would be an an example of not needing to prioritize.
 
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