How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

[LDM7]

Hey, way to go LDM7 !!!! Well deserved, you been putting in the hours, so nothing less than you deserve.

I was using Glazer 09C FH and Glazer on BH, both good rubbers
=> i tried glazer on BH, it didn't speak to me ...
=> then came along bluestorm z3 (med-soft) = N!CE
=> this donic rubber is not too fast, spiny, with above average control
=> within a min's hit, i felt it was saying "trust me," give it a go IB, give it a go (and if you do, go 4 da baby-blue one, LOL, it's CooL )
=> i am still looking for a FH running mate

Just changed to Tau 2 on both wings. tested it a couple of years ago, but never used it for any real length of time. Gonna give it a go for the upcoming season, just got to get a couple of spare sheets
=> did you change to Xiom Tau II b/c glazer(s) both worned out or jst wanna try something new?

How’s the training going?
=> training is always fascinating, albeit at times soooo frustrating
=> i like dedicating myself, making a commitment, put in the effort & hours ... then the best part - RESULT!
=> doing a lot of off-the-table stuff in support of my development
=> good news is my game is soooo raw that nething i do helps
=> bad news is seems like i need to do everything jst to improve a little LOL

Looking forward to hearing how you get-on during new season (another round of vid) 💪🏓

 

[LDM7]

Awesome, that’s great news!

been a bit since we chatted wrighty, how is your FH loop (vs backspin) coming along?

are you still drilling with robot?

if so, do you have a program that develop fh/bh transition?

late, ldm

 

[LDM7]

I regularly use a very short BH topspin serve into RH players FH - more often than not, if it is short enough I get a nice popped up ball to my FH or they miss the table. I throw in a side/back version as they adjust and it looks very similar.

i never understood how one can serve a BH topspin that is short

instinctively when i hear topspin, i think deep & long ... humm

how bout a short instructional video wrighty?

 

[LDM7]

Hey LDM7!

Yo Jslick 💪 🏓

 

[Der_Echte]

J-Slick was taking the fight to Jerome last Tuesday in RR.

 

[NextLevel]

i never understood how one can serve a BH topspin that is short

instinctively when i hear topspin, i think deep & long ... humm

how bout a short instructional video wrighty?

It isn't heavy topspin. It is just topspin (or more often sidespin or side topspin) that stays short and because it stays short and has deceptive fakes invites naive people to push it like backspin.

Wrighty can share a video for sure. There should be decent tutorials on the internet as well on a few YouTube channels

 

[Wrighty67]

i never understood how one can serve a BH topspin that is short

instinctively when i hear topspin, i think deep & long ... humm

how bout a short instructional video wrighty?

That's quite a challenge but I will see what I can do. I had some instruction recently from Craig Bryant (The ttserviceguy on Instagram) and the most important tip he gave me for short top on either side is that the ball must be delivered to the table in an up (off bat) and then drop (onto table) manner rather than a more typical ball heading straight down to table. By doing this not only does it require a much lighter touch/brush but it also allows the ball to really kick when it hits the other side of the net.

Here's how it was explained to me on the FH - the BH version adopts very similar principles.

View attachment 583f29c2-0736-4c3a-9172-793744dd203a.MOV

 

[NextLevel]

=> I have a bh

But I am not bh dominant ... (YET)

I am a … I wanna have a serviceable bh plyr which 2023 is all about that !!

I also understand serving from fh (natural) side offers more variety than bh serves, though one advantage of a bh serve is your feet are already paralleled to the table and get in position quicker for that 3rd ball

maybe vs a southpaw, from dbls service side, I can bh serve into them i.e. their bh and look for a more natural 3rd ball to my middle-T or better yet, my FH side for an opening loop. I am landing more FH loop vs backspin now albeit I can see the foot literally needs work

But I wonder what advantages can be gained when a rightie bh serve into another right-hander’s bh or fh (from server’s bh side)

I will watch quadri’s vid’s and see where he bh serves on the table and how he develops a point, getting himself into a rally

=> I am simply looking to develop a more well-rounded game, not boxed in with any particular style

=> twiddling is out. this is a deal breaker. i got enough things to worry (& think) about ... i am not adding another element to my game. Nope, no LP for LDM

=> i want to be able to do all kinds of things with my bh ... e.g different types of blocks, chops, counter, loop drive & every1's favorite, a slow & spinny bh loop that lands in the middle of the table (or close to the net) so the other feels like he has to reach ... hehe

In table tennis, even with limited practice time, there is nothing wrong with messing around a little if you can afford it. A serve is a serve, as long as you practice it and can get good results with it, it doesn't matter what the serve looks like. The key thing about most good serving is that it requires a lot of practice to get the serve right and introduce the elements that are deceptive. But this can be done with any serve.

That's quite a challenge but I will see what I can do. I had some instruction recently from Craig Bryant (The ttserviceguy on Instagram) and the most important tip he gave me for short top on either side is that the ball must be delivered to the table in an up (off bat) and then drop (onto table) manner rather than a more typical ball heading straight down to table. By doing this not only does it require a much lighter touch/brush but it also allows the ball to really kick when it hits the other side of the net.

Here's how it was explained to me on the FH - the BH version adopts very similar principles.

View attachment 26068

This is one of the best servers in the world, thanks for sharing.

 

[Wrighty67]

In table tennis, even with limited practice time, there is nothing wrong with messing around a little if you can afford it. A serve is a serve, as long as you practice it and can get good results with it, it doesn't matter what the serve looks like. The key thing about most good serving is that it requires a lot of practice to get the serve right and introduce the elements that are deceptive. But this can be done with any serve.

This is one of the best servers in the world, thanks for sharing.

He is very good, and also very accessible - his review and advice service (through Instagram) was amazing - I sent him three serves on video with my comments and he sent me a long review back accompanied by a full and personalised video. His insights were fantastic in helping me.

 

[Jslick89]

J-Slick was taking the fight to Jerome last Tuesday in RR.

I'd like to think so but I also have to accept that Jerone is waiting for his new prescription eye glasses to come in, so he's playing with a little handicap.

However....i did have 2 match points against Aarush! That was pretty awesome.

LDM7- will you ever make it to citrus heights again? happy to hear about your progress bro! now i want to see it in person!

 

[LDM7]

That's quite a challenge but I will see what I can do. I had some instruction recently from Craig Bryant (The ttserviceguy on Instagram) and the most important tip he gave me for short top on either side is that the ball must be delivered to the table in an up (off bat) and then drop (onto table) manner rather than a more typical ball heading straight down to table. By doing this not only does it require a much lighter touch/brush but it also allows the ball to really kick when it hits the other side of the net.

Here's how it was explained to me on the FH - the BH version adopts very similar principles.

View attachment 26068

thanks 4 the vid wrighty

i'll practice sum & play around with the starting position 💪🏓

 

[LDM7]

I'd like to think so but I also have to accept that Jerone is waiting for his new prescription eye glasses to come in, so he's playing with a little handicap.

However....i did have 2 match points against Aarush! That was pretty awesome.

LDM7- will you ever make it to citrus heights again? happy to hear about your progress bro! now i want to see it in person!

good 2 hear from you on the forum, preparing for upcoming tourneys so mostly lessons, organized work outs & drills ... let's connect soon

 

[IB66]

I was using Glazer 09C FH and Glazer on BH, both good rubbers
=> i tried glazer on BH, it didn't speak to me ...
=> then came along bluestorm z3 (med-soft) = N!CE
=> this donic rubber is not too fast, spiny, with above average control
=> within a min's hit, i felt it was saying "trust me," give it a go IB, give it a go (and if you do, go 4 da baby-blue one, LOL, it's CooL )
=> i am still looking for a FH running mate

Just changed to Tau 2 on both wings. tested it a couple of years ago, but never used it for any real length of time. Gonna give it a go for the upcoming season, just got to get a couple of spare sheets
=> did you change to Xiom Tau II b/c glazer(s) both worned out or jst wanna try something new?

How’s the training going?
=> training is always fascinating, albeit at times soooo frustrating
=> i like dedicating myself, making a commitment, put in the effort & hours ... then the best part - RESULT!
=> doing a lot of off-the-table stuff in support of my development
=> good news is my game is soooo raw that nething i do helps
=> bad news is seems like i need to do everything jst to improve a little LOL

Looking forward to hearing how you get-on during new season (another round of vid) 💪🏓

I used Bluestorm Z3 on BH and Z2 FH for the 1st 1/2 of the season before last season, about 1 3/4 yrs ago!!!!
like them both, those 47 degree, or 45 degree rubbers have (generally) great controllability and high spin levels, super blocking as well!! Just like some tackiness though.
Glazers feel sort of hard, that goes for Tenergy and D09C as well, the FX versions are softer but I haven’t used the FX versions.
impact noise of G09C sounds hard, and when compared to say Tau 2 and Rakza Z/Z EH the noise loudness is really noticeable !!!

I changed to Tau 2 because it’s sort of goofing off time, as Der puts it!!! No matches, time for a little EJ ing!! Compared to other years my EJing is pretty tame, I wanted to try Xiom J&H H version (I think that’s the slightly tacky version, similar tackiness to G09C) found a site that stocked it, they also had Tau 2, which I had tried to get a year or so ago, but couldn’t find it available in sponge thickness and colour. It’s gonna stay on the blade and I’ll use it next season.
Durability of G09C and regular Glazer looks pretty good though.

Training is going reasonably well, having monthly session with Tom Lodziak which ramps up to 2 sessions a month in August and September ready for the new season to start around October.
coaching others has stopped for the school summer break, but we will start ‘team’ training every Thursday from next week.
You can watch a session I had with Tom on his YouTube channel, I also posted it on a thread on here, something like ’improve serve and 3rd ball attack’. Hell watching vids of yourself is….. how to put it ??? Awkward!!!

Yeah new season matches, video footage will be a given!!!!

 

[NextLevel]

I used Bluestorm Z3 on BH and Z2 FH for the 1st 1/2 of the season before last season, about 1 3/4 yrs ago!!!!
like them both, those 47 degree, or 45 degree rubbers have (generally) great controllability and high spin levels, super blocking as well!! Just like some tackiness though.
Glazers feel sort of hard, that goes for Tenergy and D09C as well, the FX versions are softer but I haven’t used the FX versions.
impact noise of G09C sounds hard, and when compared to say Tau 2 and Rakza Z/Z EH the noise loudness is really noticeable !!!

I changed to Tau 2 because it’s sort of goofing off time, as Der puts it!!! No matches, time for a little EJ ing!! Compared to other years my EJing is pretty tame, I wanted to try Xiom J&H H version (I think that’s the slightly tacky version, similar tackiness to G09C) found a site that stocked it, they also had Tau 2, which I had tried to get a year or so ago, but couldn’t find it available in sponge thickness and colour. It’s gonna stay on the blade and I’ll use it next season.
Durability of G09C and regular Glazer looks pretty good though.

Training is going reasonably well, having monthly session with Tom Lodziak which ramps up to 2 sessions a month in August and September ready for the new season to start around October.
coaching others has stopped for the school summer break, but we will start ‘team’ training every Thursday from next week.
You can watch a session I had with Tom on his YouTube channel, I also posted it on a thread on here, something like ’improve serve and 3rd ball attack’. Hell watching vids of yourself is….. how to put it ??? Awkward!!!

Yeah new season matches, video footage will be a given!!!!

 

[LDM7]

Oh ch!t ... Go IB, go IB, you can do it 😂

 

[IB66]

Ha, 1hr of 2hr session was recorded, editing can do wonders!!! Maybe 5 mins out of an hour used, not hard to imagine what the other 55 mins was like!!! More bad than good!!

Anyway, the sessions are based on 3 main areas.

1) Serve and 3rd ball attack, 5th ball follows on. spin rather than power/speed. Find the right ratio of spin, power and speed, decision making, full out attack on the ‘right‘ ball. Safer ball with good spin and placement, enough speed etc.

2) Return of serve, reading spin, placement, and how Gun ho you go with the return of serve, decision making again!! Risky, Safe or somewhere in between, how to put some pressure on opponent, what’s uncomfortable and not the return they expect. Tom liked some swipe pushes I did, playing with the spin rather than against it as well. These types of return are not really used at our level.

3) Recovery, footwork, movement and ‘smart‘ anticipation, moving in advance to a slightly advantageous position, because there is a higher % or likelihood that the stroke opponent will play will be to a certain area of the table. Similar to ‘resetting your middle/ centre’ when receiving serve, which we have discussed previously.
Item 3 is always part of items 1 and 2

Last session we worked on which serve action was best for me.
BH serve, FH pendulum, FH reverse pendulum, FH hook????? (Didn’t even go down the FH tomahawk route, I have that serve but use it rarely)
The outcome was use FH pendulum and FH hook serve, I was reading the return better, smart anticipation was better. Therefore 3rd ball attack was better.
Disguise of hook serve is good, opponents can become very uncomfortable when receiving my hook serve ( at my level or slightly higher )
Disguise of FH pendulum is I would class as average at best, so I’ll work on how that can be improved. But I have good spin variation, placement etc

So, BH serve, use for safety and faster recovery.
FH reverse pendulum has some good variation and deception but is edged out by how I recover and anticipate serve return.

These 4 serve actions will still be practiced and hopefully improved, but there will be generally 2 serve actions used in the majority. It is still worth having the other 2 serve actions, because sometimes changing to a BH serve or Reverse pendulum reaps rewards. something to throw into the mix if an opponent is returning your preferred serves well. They may not be as aggressive or return well to a lower %, its strange that a player can struggle with a different serve action, angle of serve, even a change of serve starting position can cause trouble!!

 

[IB66]

Forgot to mention, we also play games, to add some pressure. Receive only games, where I try and win as many points as possibly when Tom serves. I may start 5 - 0 up, can I win a game?? Ditto with myself solely serving, I don’t get any start advantage, bummer!! Games are close or can be if I’m playing well, this type of handicap stuff is well worth trying against your coach!!!

 

[LDM7]

Serve and 3rd ball attack, 5th ball follows on. spin rather than power/speed. Find the right ratio of spin, power and speed, decision making, full out attack on the ‘right‘ ball. Safer ball with good spin and placement, enough speed etc

=> similarly i can relate, i even put up a poster by my table that reads: " do you want to get better or hope in the glory of a high risk shot?" ... remind myself not every ball (opportunity) needs to be a kill shot

=> truth is i need more insight & PT learn to develop a point

Return of serve, reading spin, placement, and how Gun ho you go with the return of serve, decision making again!! Risky, Safe or somewhere in between, how to put some pressure on opponent, what’s uncomfortable and not the return they expect. Tom liked some swipe pushes I did, playing with the spin rather than against it as well. These types of return are not really used at our level

=> when you get a chance IB, could you point me to a couple of time stamps where you do a "swipe push?"

Recovery, footwork, movement and ‘smart‘ anticipation, moving in advance to a slightly advantageous position, because there is a higher % or likelihood that the stroke opponent will play will be to a certain area of the table. Similar to ‘resetting your middle/ centre’ when receiving serve, which we have discussed previously.
Item 3 is always part of items 1 and 2

=> good reminder resetting the middle (service receive & during a rally)

Last session we worked on which serve action was best for me.
BH serve, FH pendulum, FH reverse pendulum, FH hook????? (Didn’t even go down the FH tomahawk route, I have that serve but use it rarely)
The outcome was use FH pendulum and FH hook serve, I was reading the return better, smart anticipation was better. Therefore 3rd ball attack was better.
Disguise of hook serve is good, opponents can become very uncomfortable when receiving my hook serve ( at my level or slightly higher )
Disguise of FH pendulum is I would class as average at best, so I’ll work on how that can be improved. But I have good spin variation, placement etc

=> past videos have shown you possess deceiving hook serves ...

=> let's see, i know you have side-top & backspin ... do you have a dead (or low spin) from the same service motion?

These 4 serve actions will still be practiced and hopefully improved, but there will be generally 2 serve actions used in the majority. It is still worth having the other 2 serve actions, because sometimes changing to a BH serve or Reverse pendulum reaps rewards. something to throw into the mix if an opponent is returning your preferred serves well. They may not be as aggressive or return well to a lower %, its strange that a player can struggle with a different serve action, angle of serve, even a change of serve starting position can cause trouble!!

=> little bird told me a serve is to get a point started & to discourage the other froom attacking 1st

=> hence if the opponent has a descent FH loop but no FH flip, i'm thinking it is safer for me to serve half-long or short to the FH side to look for a push for me to open

=> yah, i've been on both sides, so i can relate ... same serve from a different position appears like a new serve

=> also there are variables in the amount of spin, type of spin, ball placement (location & depth) & speed (energy)

 

[LDM7]

IB66 said:

Hell watching vids of yourself is … how to put it ??? Awkward!!!

Yeah new season matches, video footage will be a given!!!!

- - -

@Wrighty67 - i volunteer you go 1st? 💪 🏓

 

[IB66]

=> similarly i can relate, i even put up a poster by my table that reads: " do you want to get better or hope in the glory of a high risk shot?" ... remind myself not every ball (opportunity) needs to be a kill shot

=> truth is i need more insight & PT learn to develop a point


=> when you get a chance IB, could you point me to a couple of time stamps where you do a "swipe push?"


=> good reminder resetting the middle (service receive & during a rally)


=> past videos have shown you possess deceiving hook serves ...

=> let's see, i know you have side-top & backspin ... do you have a dead (or low spin) from the same service motion?


=> little bird told me a serve is to get a point started & to discourage the other froom attacking 1st

=> hence if the opponent has a descent FH loop but no FH flip, i'm thinking it is safer for me to serve half-long or short to the FH side to look for a push for me to open

=> yah, i've been on both sides, so i can relate ... same serve from a different position appears like a new serve

=> also there are variables in the amount of spin, type of spin, ball placement (location & depth) & speed (energy)

Didn’t do any ‘swipe’ pushes in the “serve, stumble, recover, stagger, bounce on your arse vid”!!!! That session was 6 or so weeks ago, last session was 2 weeks past, when playing the ‘only 1 server’ games, I threw a couple in , if you get em right they skid through carrying a good amount of side spin. I’ll try and record some on Thursday when we have team training.

Yeah, got a low spin or dead ball hook serve. I try and pat the ball forward rather than cutting under or flicking up. Works for me.
Adam Bobrow does a topspin serve that he sort of just lets the ball bounce off the rubber, bat angle about 45 degrees. Then add a bit of fake motion, people see a bat angle associated with backspin, push, ball pops up nicely!! Wham bam thank you mam!!!!
If you toss the ball up hold bat at 45 degrees and let the ball land on the rubber without moving the bat, the ball will bounce off with light topspin on it.
Do it again, but pat forward slightly and it takes some of the spin off.
Do it again, and this time cut down and forward at 45 degrees (chop down)backspin.
And Again, keeping the 45 degree bat angle flick bat up and backwards at 45 degrees, topspin.

There are some good servers out there that pull the bat backwards after / at impact as part of the serve motion. They can then have an almost flat bat, contacting the bottom of the ball and put either backspin or topspin on the ball.
flatish bat, contact ball when bat is moving forward = backspin, contact ball as bat is moving backward = topspin. Split second timing and loads of practice!!!

For sure the serve is to get the point started and discourage an attack, so half long and short is good, half long is better, as the push return is likely to be longer, so you get more opportunities to open up. Short, and they can push short return, so less likely to get a 3rd ball attack.
A half long serve, one with a deceptive serve action, a serve that is hard to read, gives opponent a double whammy of decision making and uncertainty, is it just long enough to loop???? Is it back, back and side, top or no spin????
uncertainty can also discourage an attack.