How to deal with short very heavy topsin

[BHSlap]

Hey Y'all. Hoping for some advice. I play a large variety of players from local league through to international players. One shot I find I have a real low percentage on is returning a heavy top spin shorter ball. The options I feel I have are block and counter top spin, both feel like really really low percentage shots.

From watching the pros they don't really have to deal with this type of shot due to them playing a bit further back from the table.

So I'm asking, how do folks play against this type of heavy topspin shortish low ball with a high percentage of success? Is it a case of that just being a difficult ball and you have to go for the counter and hope you land it? I noticed Truls uses a chop block quite a lot, I think that might help take some of the spin off and actually increase the chances of returning the ball in a way that makes the opponent work.

Thanks! Any links to vids is appreciated but I haven't found anything yet on YouTube.

 

[M51]

Early on the bounce, close the racket, counter.

Alternatively, learn chop block. The tomahawk block works best for me.

 

[BHSlap]

Early on the bounce, close the racket, counter.

Alternatively, learn chop block. The tomahawk block works best for me.

Ok, that's the really low percentage shot for me. The ball feels there's a 1 degree change between going into the net or off the table.

tomahawk block? can't find any info on that, is just the reverse of the bh chop block?

 

[Robin0910]

Ok, that's the really low percentage shot for me. The ball feels there's a 1 degree change between going into the net or off the table.

tomahawk block? can't find any info on that, is just the reverse of the bh chop block?

its basically a forehand chop block with side underspin

 

[M51]

Backhand sidespin chopblock can work wonders as well.

Though mine is way more passive (shorter stroke) and far less spinny.

 

[kingkimchi]

Hey Y'all. Hoping for some advice. I play a large variety of players from local league through to international players. One shot I find I have a real low percentage on is returning a heavy top spin shorter ball. The options I feel I have are block and counter top spin, both feel like really really low percentage shots.

From watching the pros they don't really have to deal with this type of shot due to them playing a bit further back from the table.

So I'm asking, how do folks play against this type of heavy topspin shortish low ball with a high percentage of success? Is it a case of that just being a difficult ball and you have to go for the counter and hope you land it? I noticed Truls uses a chop block quite a lot, I think that might help take some of the spin off and actually increase the chances of returning the ball in a way that makes the opponent work.

Thanks! Any links to vids is appreciated but I haven't found anything yet on YouTube.

Change to pips and push it down. or just hit it DOWN onto the table, not forward, dont do any topspin or whatnot. go DOWN

 

[BHSlap]

Backhand sidespin chopblock can work wonders as well.

Though mine is way more passive (shorter stroke) and far less spinny.

wow, will add this to the training list. I'd get some looks if I pulled this out of the bag. Ironically it does look like a higher percentage shot once you have it perfected.

 

[M51]

 

[BHSlap]

Change to pips and push it down. or just hit it DOWN onto the table, not forward, dont do any topspin or whatnot. go DOWN

Not sure what you are saying here. Change my rubber to short pimples and just hit the ball down onto the table? I might pass on this advice.

 

[BHSlap]

ah yes, although the topspin shot type I'm talking about is a short heavy top spin, this example is prob a metre past the end of the table. I'd be over the table so this type of shot would be next to impossible because the handle space is where the ball would be. This on the bh side would be possible (chop block)

 

[M51]

ah yes, although the topspin shot type I'm talking about is a short heavy top spin,

You can kill a short topspin with a tomahawk smash if the bounce is high enough.

I have a partner who is a brilliant blocker, destroys me every time I play a short spinny loop, even when the bounce is low.

 

[BHSlap]

You can kill a short topspin with a tomahawk smash. I have a partner who is a brilliant blocker, destroys me every time I play a short spinny loop.

Would love to see a vid of anyone doing this while over the table if you have one?

 

[Stella]

I can't believe you ran into this ball. Did you face Timo Boll?
This ball is very difficult to handle, especially when it's close to the net.
The most sensible way for an amateur to handle it is to get as far forward as possible, cover the top of the ball before it jumps and press it through, and immediately prepare to defend, because the opponent's return must be a powerful attack.

 

[BHSlap]

I can't believe you ran into this ball. Did you face Timo Boll?
This ball is very difficult to handle, especially when it's close to the net.
The most sensible way for an amateur to handle it is to get as far forward as possible, cover the top of the ball before it jumps and press it through, and immediately prepare to defend, because the opponent's return must be a powerful attack.

haha, well yes, some of the players are a very high level. I think it's just a bad place to find myself in, I should also work on not getting myself into this position in the first place.

 

[Kopp]

Punch with BH works great for me, but I can't do it with FH at all! IDK why? Same rubber on both sides, it's so weird.

 

[Lula]

I think if you just block with an closed angle and come closer to the so it will not get to the highest point it will be fine. If you wait for the ball so it get higher the block will get high. Most importantly is to read the spin and also not to much arm so move the body a little in forehand and toes a bit i backhand. Too much arm is unsafe.

 

[blahness]

Assuming you play inverted, get close to the ball by moving forward with your right leg. Once you're in position, you have to contact the top of the ball but after you do that do not go forward (if the ball has good spin this is bound to miss the end of the table), but sideways and press down on the ball with your body. Going sideways is a very important mechanism to rob the ball of its incoming momentum (same principle as dropshot against sidetopspin serves). Use the body to control the ball and not the hand. If you watch some Hao Shuai blocks you'll get the idea fast - he makes it look easy. Start off slow trying to control the spin, then you can use these basics to add quality to your return.

Imo chopblock and punch are pretty low percentage shots (but are extremely disgusting for the opponent) compared to this stable sidespin block, unless you're talented af and want to show off like Truls or Koki Niwa. Also with this the outgoing ball will have some nasty sidespin which you can use to really increase the angles they need to cover. I can do both the hook version as well as the fade version on both wings and it is one of my nastier shots.

 

[NDH]

Early on the bounce, close the racket, counter.

Alternatively, learn chop block. The tomahawk block works best for me.

Not sure if this is a joke, or you are being serious 😅

The chop block is such a hard shot for very advanced people to play (not to mention a low percentage).

Of all the shots to counter a short heavy topspin shot….. this is the last option to try!

My advice for the OP:

if you can get to the bounce of the ball, get to it, smother it, and try to take pace off the ball.

Your opponent will have an opportunity to attack again, but if you can play it with soft enough hands, the attack should be defendable.

Counter topspin is an option, but typically for higher level players (and without seeing you play, it’s impossible to judge - The fact you are asking the question, probably means it’s slightly too advanced right now).

But if you get a chance to practice it, make sure you swing fast and “go over” the ball - It’s amazing how easy is it to hit through spin with the plastic balls if you have the right technique.

Lastly, if you can wait for the ball to bounce/kick off, you have a great opportunity to counter hit if you are around 0.5 to 1 metre behind the table.

The ball should sit up quite nicely and you can just counter loop (but it’s much easier than if the ball is over the table and short).

Generally though, I think the soft hands and smother option works best for most people.

 

[NextLevel]

It isn't easy to spin topspin consistently short even when you are Timo Boll, so if it is happening over and over again, then look at what is leading to the shot. Blocking the ball by covering it early tends to keep it on the table and that is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hey Y'all. Hoping for some advice. I play a large variety of players from local league through to international players. One shot I find I have a real low percentage on is returning a heavy top spin shorter ball. The options I feel I have are block and counter top spin, both feel like really really low percentage shots.

From watching the pros they don't really have to deal with this type of shot due to them playing a bit further back from the table.

So I'm asking, how do folks play against this type of heavy topspin shortish low ball with a high percentage of success? Is it a case of that just being a difficult ball and you have to go for the counter and hope you land it? I noticed Truls uses a chop block quite a lot, I think that might help take some of the spin off and actually increase the chances of returning the ball in a way that makes the opponent work.

Thanks! Any links to vids is appreciated but I haven't found anything yet on YouTube.

Hi @BHSlapper ,

I give you three easy ways to deal with this ball.

Number one thing for this shot (and ANY shot in TT) is upon opponent impact, that you properly discern what opponent did to the ball and what, how, when, where ball is going so you can instantly decide subconsciously how to deal with it and be there on time ready to do what you decided.

That sounds like a mouthful, but it is true. Unless you can see what happened and be there on time ready leveraged, your chances of failure go through the roof.

Having said that, there is a clue on how to know that slow heavy ball is a slow heavy ball and may go short... the SOUND of the impact with that whip stroke opponent used. You will not hear wood, just a small not so noisy sound that is the sound when someone really brushes the ball and did not drive it any.

Disclaimers and basic ed out of the way... time to look at three easy ways to deal with that heavy, slow, shallow landing ball.

Another disclaimer, your response will be the same process and biomechanics if the ball lands deeper, but the difference is in how much you have to see it and step in to position. it is a lot easy to cope with middle table or deep landing slow heavy balls, since you in theory have to move less to the position needed.

So, NUMBER ONE... the soft cover block and its variations. Step forward with proper leg Usually right for BH and can be either for FH) and UNDER the table, get hips to table top level or lower, get that lead leg well under the table. For BH, step to bounce point, get bat a couple inches and above bounce, close bat, loosen hand a LOT and watch the ball go back in like magic.

Several variations are to be active a little or a lot, but keep grip and arm real loose. maybe go forward a couple inches without much power loose grip, this will still eat the spin and keep rebound slow to land the ball. You can also tilt bat and get some side on it too, you can be creative, but go over the ball real close to bounce loose grip very little power if any.

Number TWO... Counter topspin... do the same thing, step to the ball, but your impact point is somewhere when the ball is on the rise and over the net by at least an inch... if ball has more arc, let it come a little higher to be safer... use very loose grip loose arm and cover the ball, use a short one foot stroke to counter the ball, do not go for much power, maybe 20%... you will make a medium fast medium spin counter this way.

Number THREE... do the same as number two, but accelerate the bat with a short stroke using 30 percent or whatever power and FIRM THE GRIP IT IMPACT... I mean REALLY firm it and time the firming right when or just before ball hits wood... the ball will EXPLODE from your bat. Your bat angle might be a little more open when you bang it like this, but it is minor and your brain will see it and adjust if you get position over the ball.