How to minimize the time between second bounce and third bounce on the serve?

[Metaxa]

Maybe this video by Bryant Craig can help you. At 00:59, you see him play very briefly during a league match in Antwerp (Belgium).

 

[latej]

Sorry for bumping this with unrelated question. I don't want to start a new thread...

TH hits the ball signif. further away from the table when serving, than say WCQ. Can someone comment on that? Some players hit the ball close to the table (like WCQ), some a bit further, and some (like TH) even further. What are the advantages/disadvantages/reasons?

Btw. I like the current WTT camera and slower repeats where we can see more about the serve...

 

[zeio]

Speaking from personal experience, it is way easier to keep the bounce tight by serving as close to the endline and table surface as possible.

 

[latej]

Speaking from personal experience, it is way easier to keep the bounce tight by serving as close to the endline and table surface as possible.

Any idea why TH chose that distance?

And another question, how about the distance from the edge when the ball first hits the table. How do you and other see it? This is a thing which you can hear very well. Usually when it hits close to the edge, it is supposed to be long fast serve. But is it always so, do you sometimes do short serves like that (1st hit close to edge)?

P.S. I set a goal to do 30min/day. OK, yesterday I didn't manage, but will try ;-)

 

[zeio]

No clue. It may have to do with how Harimoto tracks the ball. Like Ito, I don't "see" the ball and edge of the table beyond the toss when serving, long or short.

 

[SFF_lib]

I have observed that some pro players' service has this one feature where it drops really fast after the second bounce. I had a chance recently to watch a couple of women pro players train their serve and this is what fascinated me the most. I have been trying various things but am not able to recreate it.

Example vid:

Any tips that will help to achieve this?

Use H3 or TG2

 

[blahness]

Any idea why TH chose that distance?

And another question, how about the distance from the edge when the ball first hits the table. How do you and other see it? This is a thing which you can hear very well. Usually when it hits close to the edge, it is supposed to be long fast serve. But is it always so, do you sometimes do short serves like that (1st hit close to edge)?

P.S. I set a goal to do 30min/day. OK, yesterday I didn't manage, but will try ;-)

If everyone is serving from the same distance (almost at edge of table), changing it up means other players have to make an adjustment when playing against him, since the rhythm and trajectory is different.

Personally I serve almost at edge of table too because this leaves the least amount of time for the opponent to judge the serve from the trajectory, and there is more suddenness in the serve.

 

[igorponger]

We used to call the such a "ghost serve".
A worthy attainment for all skilled players.
______________
Be erudite of everything

 

[zeio]

And another question, how about the distance from the edge when the ball first hits the table. How do you and other see it? This is a thing which you can hear very well. Usually when it hits close to the edge, it is supposed to be long fast serve. But is it always so, do you sometimes do short serves like that (1st hit close to edge)?

Missed the second question.

From my own experience, I try to make the first bounce to the middle of my end for all serves and mostly use the spin to vary the second bounce on the other end. Just that alone was enough to score me wins and close matches against former Div A players (top 120) and top Div B players (121-360) at the club.

 

[dingyibvs]

Sorry for bumping this with unrelated question. I don't want to start a new thread...

TH hits the ball signif. further away from the table when serving, than say WCQ. Can someone comment on that? Some players hit the ball close to the table (like WCQ), some a bit further, and some (like TH) even further. What are the advantages/disadvantages/reasons?

Btw. I like the current WTT camera and slower repeats where we can see more about the serve...

For me at least it depends on whether the service motion is more or less back-to-front. A more back-to-front service motion benefits more from a backwards toss, as it adds extra spin due to 1) the extra relative motion of the ball to the racket as the ball moves back while the racket moves forward and 2) allowing for a bit extra "whip" effect as your body turns before your arm. For #2 if the ball is a bit behind the table then as your body is turned toward the table the ball would be at your side, which is the most comfortable position to generate spin, whereas it would be in front of your body if it was at the edge of the table.

WCQ's services, both his pendulum and hook serves, use a more up/down motion than a back/front motion, so he serves near the end line which has the obvious advantage of a shorter trajectory and thus less time for the opponent to judge the ball. Sacrificing a bit of spin for a bit more deception seems to work well for him.

 

[latej]

For me at least it depends on whether the service motion is more or less back-to-front. A more back-to-front service motion benefits more from a backwards toss, as it adds extra spin due to 1) the extra relative motion of the ball to the racket as the ball moves back while the racket moves forward and 2) allowing for a bit extra "whip" effect as your body turns before your arm. For #2 if the ball is a bit behind the table then as your body is turned toward the table the ball would be at your side, which is the most comfortable position to generate spin, whereas it would be in front of your body if it was at the edge of the table.

WCQ's services, both his pendulum and hook serves, use a more up/down motion than a back/front motion, so he serves near the end line which has the obvious advantage of a shorter trajectory and thus less time for the opponent to judge the ball. Sacrificing a bit of spin for a bit more deception seems to work well for him.

Interesting... Could be...

I also noticed WCQ sort of rotates into the serve, I mean the body, you can see his "main" foot (the stamp on foot), which is right for him, ends not where it started - otherwise you couldn't really rotate the body into the serve... I guess it's the point 2 you speak about...

Anyways, thank you guys so far for the answers... I understand it's still mostly about the hours...

 

[Der_Echte]

But ultimately, keeping the ball low is really just one of many things you need to do well.

TRUTH Merchant here...

 

[latej]

TRUTH Merchant here...

Yeah, you're right... His post is good... I realized only now...

But to excuse myself a bit - I had these - the obfuscation and height also in the back of my mind - and trying to work on it - but wanted to sort of get the "physics" ;-) right and be sure that I don't neglect it ;-)

 

[dingyibvs]

Interesting... Could be...

I also noticed WCQ sort of rotates into the serve, I mean the body, you can see his "main" foot (the stamp on foot), which is right for him, ends not where it started - otherwise you couldn't really rotate the body into the serve... I guess it's the point 2 you speak about...

Anyways, thank you guys so far for the answers... I understand it's still mostly about the hours...

Also, you'll notice that he's always standing beside the table far further up than say LSD whose body is mostly behind the table when he serves pendulum. This way when he rotates the body the ball is still to his side rather than in front of him. See the start of the LSD vs. WCQ game for this difference. Also note at the 15:45 point WCQ switched to serving from mostly behind the table, and his toss (which was ruled illegal) was a much more backward toss. So basically for maximum: serving right at the edge = standing beside the table and no toss back, serving behind the table = standing behind the table and tossing back.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Any idea why TH chose that distance?

And another question, how about the distance from the edge when the ball first hits the table. How do you and other see it? This is a thing which you can hear very well. Usually when it hits close to the edge, it is supposed to be long fast serve. But is it always so, do you sometimes do short serves like that (1st hit close to edge)?

P.S. I set a goal to do 30min/day. OK, yesterday I didn't manage, but will try ;-)

distance on serve is mostly personal preference
servicing closer towards the end line allows for lesser time to travel and increase spin rotation.
normally further out is for more power in the serve.

on your second question
serving short with the 1st hit close to the edge is very common nowadays.