How to play vs double Pips out?

[gordonluvsu]

I Post this topic because I am genuinely clueless on how to play vs them.

How are you supposed to beat someone like this:
-Some combination of long/short Pips on one side
- and anti/short/long Pips on the other
-Standing almost in the table,
-returning all Servers in some Strange way half long or short with no readable spin
- Smashing balls long and/or high

I find no Chance to attack, the only points i made were getting some mistakes out of hım but i could only attack a couple the entire Match,
Lost 0-3, couldnt learn anything from the Match.


What to do????

 

[PaddyPolar]

I find that if you serve backspin tot the long pips, it comes back as topspin, so from there you can execute a well placed attack

 

[vvk1]

Start by reading the classics 🤣:

How Long Pips Really Work - Greg's Table Tennis Pages

How long pips really work in table tennis.

gregsttpages.com

How Antispin Really Works - Greg's Table Tennis Pages

How antispin really works in table tennis.

gregsttpages.com

https://www.samsondubina.com/tactics/various-game-styles (especially the paragraphs on "Ulysses the Unconventional Rubber Player")

Table Tennis Tactics - Attacker vs Defender With Long Pimples - Greg's Table Tennis Pages

Table Tennis Tactics - Attacker vs Defender with Long Pimples - advice for the attacker.

gregsttpages.com

 

[mocker88]

The best is to play very "flat" and un-spinny as your opponent thrives on your spin and looping game.

 

[latej]

I find no Chance to attack, the only points i made were getting some mistakes out of hım but i could only attack a couple the entire Match,
Lost 0-3, couldnt learn anything from the Match.

It may take some time but eventually you realize that there is less spin (whatever spin) coming from SP/LP (when on both sides) players. So you can actually attack a lot of balls quite well, when you sort of, lose the fear of the strangeness. Unless of course it is very short during exchange, sometimes this happens with anti or LP players. Try more longer faster serves (regardless the spin, but more up or no-spin than down), so that the ball which comes back is not too short, or attacked right away. Attack those balls with top-spin, don't be afraid of floaters, adding your top-spin will override it and give safety. Move well, especially in the vertical direction. It's a matter of time. And actually, we don't need to know that we learn...

 

[allfj]

pips and antispin have a few things in common, and one of them is that

they can't generate their own spin, so just hit a no spin ball anywhere

 

[Gozo Aruna]

One is clueless because these players are rare and hence one has little practice against.

All the theory in the world you acquire goes out through the window once you play because you have not build the muscle memory / automatic reaction to their weird spin.

Hence the antidote to these players are to play more to acquire the muscle memory with the theory that you acquire here.

 

[blahness]

It depends on your playing style. Everyone plays pips a little differently.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

trick is to read the LP ball properly and know that it comes back the opposite.
Supposed that your LP opponent can push the ball fast, to attack you.

when the ball goes back high, SP fh would normally attack your ball, so just make sure to block it back.

It is a patience game of mixing up slow and fast balls and you just need to read the type of spin, level of spin probably, so you won't be controlled.
SP/LP players are very 1 dimentional, so if you read the ball, the threat level drops a lot.

 

[JJ Ng]

I try to serve long with no spin. Then the ball should come back with little spin and I would try to spin with heavy top spin and try to finish the point fast. The longer the point goes the more difficult for you (because you are not used to the timing of the ball as it drops or floats coming back at you).

If they return the heavy top spin, then I push the ball. I try not to be a hero and try to loop the second time. Then the ball most likely will come back with no spin or top spin, then I loop heavy top spin again.

Rinse and repeat.

the hardest thing is to figure out that the ball may drop in front of you and you have to adjust your timing and go forward a bit more to pick up the ball.

 

[blahness]

I finally won against my LP/inverted penholder partner today and can share some tactics I used.

I used majority long serves to the pips (FH pendulum, hook, heavy under/no spin) with various spins and placements with lots of fake movements and disguises. They can't loop so you basically have no chance of getting a dangerous fast loop back. When they bump the ball back, it will be the opposite spin of what you put in (for eg if you served topspin it will come back underspin ish, if you served underspin it will come back topspin ish). Short serves are a big no no because they have too many options (short, long, with big angles) which creates problems for you. I generally only throw in a short serve once in a while but usually those are either no spin or underspin serves where I aim to attack their "push" strongly because they can't generate much underspin on that.

For rallying I will use 1 loop 1 push method to pressure them. It is very important that the push quality be as high as possible - never bump the ball but try to use your body and take it early, angle the push downwards, and use the placements well. If you did this right, they can only bump the ball back, and you can counter or loop the resulting no spin/topspin ball strongly to place them under further pressure to induce unforced errors from them or pop ups you can finish strongly. If any ball pops up, show no mercy, just loopkill it hard. Half hearted loops only get punished by them.

Also sometimes if you push hard long and they push back it can be a short floaty topspin - do not try to loop or push this but instead just flick it to some nasty placement. If you push it it's gonna be an opportunity ball for them. After the flick it's gonna come back no spin ish so adjust accordingly.

I never liked to do continuous looping against LP, it only gives them the chance to really load up on the underspin and induce errors on your end.

I do have a LP practice partner so that helps a lot.

 

[merlin el mago]

It all depends, not all long pips are frictionless also exist with grip, the same for anti there are with more or less reversal, also depend the blade & the player skills you are playing against.

 

[JJ Ng]

I finally won against my LP/inverted penholder partner today and can share some tactics I used.

I used majority long serves to the pips (FH pendulum, hook, heavy under/no spin) with various spins and placements with lots of fake movements and disguises. They can't loop so you basically have no chance of getting a dangerous fast loop back. When they bump the ball back, it will be the opposite spin of what you put in (for eg if you served topspin it will come back underspin ish, if you served underspin it will come back topspin ish). Short serves are a big no no because they have too many options (short, long, with big angles) which creates problems for you. I generally only throw in a short serve once in a while but usually those are either no spin or underspin serves where I aim to attack their "push" strongly because they can't generate much underspin on that.

For rallying I will use 1 loop 1 push method to pressure them. It is very important that the push quality be as high as possible - never bump the ball but try to use your body and take it early, angle the push downwards, and use the placements well. If you did this right, they can only bump the ball back, and you can counter or loop the resulting no spin/topspin ball strongly to place them under further pressure to induce unforced errors from them or pop ups you can finish strongly. If any ball pops up, show no mercy, just loopkill it hard. Half hearted loops only get punished by them.

Also sometimes if you push hard long and they push back it can be a short floaty topspin - do not try to loop or push this but instead just flick it to some nasty placement. If you push it it's gonna be an opportunity ball for them. After the flick it's gonna come back no spin ish so adjust accordingly.

I never liked to do continuous looping against LP, it only gives them the chance to really load up on the underspin and induce errors on your end.

I do have a LP practice partner so that helps a lot.

I agree. I like the loop then push. then loop then push strategy. Rinse and repeat.

I don't like to continuously loop. Yes they can use your topspin against you as you loop more and more. But it is also that looping continuously is difficult because the ball keeps on getting shorter and shorter coming back to you. I rather loop once, then push to reset. Then ready to loop again.