Looking for a device for recording training and games

[JeffM]

Hi everyone, firstly, Happy Chinese New Year

Recently, I have been recording myself in training and games for self improvement as well as sharing with friends on youtube. However, I have noticed that with my camera, it will automatically stop recording at 10 min mark. My dad's video camera is able to record videos of long duration, however, it is too old (10 years) and produces blurry videos. My phone is not too flashy either, so I don't intend on using it to record myself playing.

For the purpose of recording training / game footage for extended period of time, what device should I be looking for? (video camera, camera, or phone)
What specs in the device should I focus on when choosing the specific model for high clarity / resolution videos?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Der_Echte]

Important factors are:

- Frame rate. You will need 60p avoid the 30p model like the Plague.

- Resolution. 720p will work for youtube vids. 1080 is better

- CMOS processor. Real important. Larger MP the better. Quality of image is important, but difficult to determine form literature. How the sensors are arranged also affects low light capture. You can read the rated low light capture as a spec, but it wont really be indicative of quality. Yet, low light capture ability is important as TT halls are not the best lit places. More Pixels is better, but quality of image is important.

- Battery. Higher capacity the better. Extra battery is a MUST for mobile recording. You film a lot and you will need more than one extra, especially if it is low capacity. Original battery MIGHT be good for 2 hrs, but don't count on it.

- Memory. Get Class 10 High Speed. 45MbS is the bare minimum, you can ger 90-100 MbS cards for nearly the same price. The really high speed ones near 100 MbS cost mis 20s USD, so get 4 cards. You will need them to swap out on the go real quick just like you do with batteries. Your card must be able to keep up with the read/write duties, low speed cards will not cut it, don't compromise on the card, you will regret it. You can get by with 2 cards, but if you film a lot, you will need several and an extra battery or two. You film at max resolution and 60p, you will fill up a card real quick. 64GB cards cost $25 each. If it is REAL important to film the matches without interruption, then you will need 128 GB cards and they run $100 each or so right now.

- Lens. Super important, but if you are going with a USD 200-300 dollar model, they are all essentially the lower end of quality. You will have to be satisfied with other important factors, you will still get an acceptable result over what you have.

Tripod. Don't skimp on the tripod, you need a stable base and good height. be prepared to spend for quality.

Case. Get a padded case large enough for everything and pockets. Protect and organize or you will agonize.


Having said all that, there are many models in the $200 to $300 range from Sony and Canon, the two most popular companies. Your memory cards will cost $100, tripod same, case half that, extra batter half that... be prepared to spend $600 USD or so to be well equipped. Sounds like a lot of money, but for camera equipment, that is bare bones bargain, one objective lens of moderate quality costs that much.

Use your judgment and seek out the important things you must not compromise on, don't take shortcuts on anything except the lens. You will not get a great lens at that price range, be ready to spend nearly $1000 USD for a camera with better lens. If you are just youtubing it all, you will do just fine with the cameras having the right features.

 

[JeffM]

Important factors are:

- Frame rate. You will need 60p avoid the 30p model like the Plague.

- Resolution. 720p will work for youtube vids. 1080 is better

- CMOS processor. Real important. Larger MP the better. Quality of image is important, but difficult to determine form literature. How the sensors are arranged also affects low light capture. You can read the rated low light capture as a spec, but it wont really be indicative of quality. Yet, low light capture ability is important as TT halls are not the best lit places. More Pixels is better, but quality of image is important.

- Battery. Higher capacity the better. Extra battery is a MUST for mobile recording. You film a lot and you will need more than one extra, especially if it is low capacity. Original battery MIGHT be good for 2 hrs, but don't count on it.

- Memory. Get Class 10 High Speed. 45MbS is the bare minimum, you can ger 90-100 MbS cards for nearly the same price. The really high speed ones near 100 MbS cost mis 20s USD, so get 4 cards. You will need them to swap out on the go real quick just like you do with batteries. Your card must be able to keep up with the read/write duties, low speed cards will not cut it, don't compromise on the card, you will regret it. You can get by with 2 cards, but if you film a lot, you will need several and an extra battery or two. You film at max resolution and 60p, you will fill up a card real quick. 64GB cards cost $25 each. If it is REAL important to film the matches without interruption, then you will need 128 GB cards and they run $100 each or so right now.

- Lens. Super important, but if you are going with a USD 200-300 dollar model, they are all essentially the lower end of quality. You will have to be satisfied with other important factors, you will still get an acceptable result over what you have.

Tripod. Don't skimp on the tripod, you need a stable base and good height. be prepared to spend for quality.

Case. Get a padded case large enough for everything and pockets. Protect and organize or you will agonize.


Having said all that, there are many models in the $200 to $300 range from Sony and Canon, the two most popular companies. Your memory cards will cost $100, tripod same, case half that, extra batter half that... be prepared to spend $600 USD or so to be well equipped. Sounds like a lot of money, but for camera equipment, that is bare bones bargain, one objective lens of moderate quality costs that much.

Use your judgment and seek out the important things you must not compromise on, don't take shortcuts on anything except the lens. You will not get a great lens at that price range, be ready to spend nearly $1000 USD for a camera with better lens. If you are just youtubing it all, you will do just fine with the cameras having the right features.

Thank you very much for the detailed post, Der_Echte.
How long can a 64gb and a 128gb card usually film for at 60p?
Are there any models that you are using, or that you would recommend me getting? The budget for the camera can be from $200 - 500 USD.

 

[Der_Echte]

Some stuff can affect it but your camera's bit rate got a LOTS to say about the matter. If it is 28MbS then you are looking at a few hrs. If bit rate of camera is better then you get less.

Unless you upload to computer after each mission right away it will help to have several cards and batteries.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Der_Echte]

I don't have low end modern vid cams even though they are quite capable for clear YouTube vids. My wife got a lot of high end dslr gear and that is where I draw upon some principles.

600 USD or so should get er done for you for camera tripod and extra card and bag and battery.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[rokphish]

What camera models are conveniently available where you are? I usually avoid buying online for camera, the rest can be bought online for considerably cheaper most of the time. You need to decide what form factor camera do you want, compact, semi, or dslr. If you don't really want the hassle or the need for camera, you could get newer handphone instead. You'll get more uses out of new hand phone.

 

[JeffM]

What camera models are conveniently available where you are? I usually avoid buying online for camera, the rest can be bought online for considerably cheaper most of the time. You need to decide what form factor camera do you want, compact, semi, or dslr. If you don't really want the hassle or the need for camera, you could get newer handphone instead. You'll get more uses out of new hand phone.

I am not really looking for a camera, one that is for taking photos, because my brother has a hobby in photography and he has a quite expensive one that does that. I, however, don't want to be borrowing his expensive camera for tt because I don't want the liability of breaking it in tt, where other people might accidentally bump into it and then I am in deep trouble. I am more looking for a video camera, one that is for taking videos as opposed to photos. You are right, i could possibly just invest in a new phone, but the only one i have in mind is i phone 6s or wait for the new i phone 7, since i heard i phones have great cameras. That said, i phones are quite expensive, at least $800 - $1000, and I do not know how long i can film with them. And since I use windows, transferring stuff from apple (my i pad) appears to be troublesome.
Is there any models you recommend?

 

[rokphish]

Any newer phones would be able to do that just fine. If you want the ease of transferring the photos and videos or any files from your phones to Windows, you should consider going with Android phones instead of Apple. I used to use Apple but now switching to Android. In the area of transferring files Android is much easier and faster. It will work just as easy as Copy and Paste within Windows Explorer.

This would narrow the search a little bit: find the smart phones which could accommodates microsd memory card. Why? Because taking videos would consumes the phones memory very fast.

Here are some criteria to narrow down your search:
- Android
- 32GB of internal memory on the phone minimum.
- 2 GB RAM minimum, 3-4 GB of RAM is best if your budget allows
- Can use MicroSD memory card (don't need this capability if you can find phone with 64 GB of memory internally)
- Have good/local service center for warranty purposes

 

[NextLevel]

Any of the newer phones/note books from Samsung/Google/Motorola or even an Ipad/I-phone are fine. That said, I use a camcorder.

1) I don't agree on the 60 fps. I do most of my recording at 30 fps and am pretty satisfied with it. If I really need to review something in exquisite detail, I can use 60 fps but for my camera (Sony CX330), this compromises the ability to have very small compressed files and takes up more memory and is harder to upload onto Youtube. On the other hand, I don't do a lot of editing so I fancy that 60fps might be attractive to people who edit a lot of long footage and have fast computers that can manipulate the multiple files. That said, I find the Sony CX330 to be pretty good.

2) The alternative is the Canon RF600 etc. The benefit of those vs the Sonys is the capability to use an external microphone. The zoom (or really the zoom out/pan to get a wide viewing area) is much worse and annoys me since I am so used to the Sony.

With the Sony CX330 and stand and extra battery pack for long filming - I can get 4 hours of film or more on a single disk and the extra battery pack for the CX330 gives you well over 6 hours of continuous active filming (the pack says 12 hours when full, so I am just being conservative - it isn't 12 but it definitely is over 4 hrs). With a stand, and disks, the total budget is under $500. IT's the route I would recommend to anyone.

 

[JeffM]

Any newer phones would be able to do that just fine. If you want the ease of transferring the photos and videos or any files from your phones to Windows, you should consider going with Android phones instead of Apple. I used to use Apple but now switching to Android. In the area of transferring files Android is much easier and faster. It will work just as easy as Copy and Paste within Windows Explorer.

This would narrow the search a little bit: find the smart phones which could accommodates microsd memory card. Why? Because taking videos would consumes the phones memory very fast.

Here are some criteria to narrow down your search:
- Android
- 32GB of internal memory on the phone minimum.
- 2 GB RAM minimum, 3-4 GB of RAM is best if your budget allows
- Can use MicroSD memory card (don't need this capability if you can find phone with 64 GB of memory internally)
- Have good/local service center for warranty purposes

Thank you very much rokphish. I assume the quality of the videos from android still very good and comparable to what apple can achieve?

Any of the newer phones/note books from Samsung/Google/Motorola or even an Ipad/I-phone are fine. That said, I use a camcorder.

1) I don't agree on the 60 fps. I do most of my recording at 30 fps and am pretty satisfied with it. If I really need to review something in exquisite detail, I can use 60 fps but for my camera (Sony CX330), this compromises the ability to have very small compressed files and takes up more memory and is harder to upload onto Youtube. On the other hand, I don't do a lot of editing so I fancy that 60fps might be attractive to people who edit a lot of long footage and have fast computers that can manipulate the multiple files. That said, I find the Sony CX330 to be pretty good.

2) The alternative is the Canon RF600 etc. The benefit of those vs the Sonys is the capability to use an external microphone. The zoom (or really the zoom out/pan to get a wide viewing area) is much worse and annoys me since I am so used to the Sony.

With the Sony CX330 and stand and extra battery pack for long filming - I can get 4 hours of film or more on a single disk and the extra battery pack for the CX330 gives you well over 6 hours of continuous active filming (the pack says 12 hours when full, so I am just being conservative - it isn't 12 but it definitely is over 4 hrs). With a stand, and disks, the total budget is under $500. IT's the route I would recommend to anyone.

Thank you very much NextLevel. I will definitely consider this.

I guess the whether a video from a camcorder is better than that from a phone will depend on the individual specs of the respective devices.
how about this camcorder? https://www.jbhifi.com.au/cameras/v...y-hdr-pj410-memory-stick-hd-camcorder/689399/

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I bought a refurbished compact camera for $50 and a tripod for $5 and I'm pretty happy with that. I can upload some footage if anybody is interested.

 

[NextLevel]

Thank you very much NextLevel. I will definitely consider this.

I guess the whether a video from a camcorder is better than that from a phone will depend on the individual specs of the respective devices.
how about this camcorder? https://www.jbhifi.com.au/cameras/v...y-hdr-pj410-memory-stick-hd-camcorder/689399/

Looks similar to a CX330 - may be a minor difference here and there, but I wouldn't be savvy enough to tell without having seriously compared the cameras.

 

[JeffM]

I bought a refurbished compact camera for $50 and a tripod for $5 and I'm pretty happy with that. I can upload some footage if anybody is interested.

Please do

 

[rokphish]

I think for the purpose of recording of yourself playing/training, video from smartphone would suffice. You get the benefit of having a new smartphone as well, which from your first post you indicated to have some what older phone that you're currently using. So, it's two birds one stone kind of thing.

I think quality wise, having a camcorder would yield better result, but for the price of $300-$400 ($400 if using the link you posted just now) for just a camcorder I think it's a bit pricey. Especially if you only use it just for this purpose. BUT, if you think $300-500 for a camcorder and its accessories is worth the videoing and the improvement of your skill as a result, then go for it.

I like to go with more bang for the bucks option is there's one. Since I don't see the need for high quality video for this particular purpose, using phone would be a better option. Besides you could use it more easily and readily available for daily use where ever you are, taking photos or video or anything you fancy.

Ilia posted a compromise. You can take your time and search for great deals on cheap but quality (enough to serve your purpose) camera/camcorder.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Camera is Nikon S6800, but I bet there are many other options. I bought it specifically for the table tennis filming. Buying used/refurbished stuff is a great option if you want to save your money.

 

[bobpuls]

- CMOS processor.

Sensor not processor ..
but anyway .. you do not care ...table tennis places have enough light so it is not so important if it is cmos or ccd.
the objective you do not care also . 35mm to 50mm is fine and f-stop from 5
.6 to 8 is also ok ...so basically all cheep models are in this range.
The best choice is the mobile phone i-phone is ok but ass someone mentioned android phones have simpler way to transfer files from device.
30 fps is enough but when you wan to analyse better 60 or 120 fps 720p is much better.
generally i would not invest any money into cam-coder .cell phone is much better choice ..especially if you want to edit it directly into the cell phone . and memory is also cheep ...
dr echte has it a little bit overthink-ed but generally ok .
Im fully satisfied with my Lg g3 .. which has 720-120 fps with KineMaster free version .
320 Eur .

 

[Tinykin]

A good smartphone can do the job but has disadvantages

I have a Samsung S5 and it is brilliant quality for table tennis. I took this handheld whilst sitting in the audience.

Look how much better it is than this video taken with my 10yo digital GBP700.00 camera. Look especially at the side of the table how the picture gets messed up.

But what if you get some phone calls or text? Plus it can be fiddly when setting up quickly.

I would go with the advice to get a dedicated camcorder. I'll be getting one later this year.

 

[Tinykin]

Hmmm, compared to my videos, that Nikon S6800 reult looks really superior.
Ah well, off to eBay to have a scan.

 

[rokphish]

But what if you get some phone calls or text? Plus it can be fiddly when setting up quickly.

Call or text won't interrupt video in process. Won't be fiddly when setting up quickly if you're already prepared with the right equipments and have been doing it several times already. As the matter of fact, it should be able to be set up faster than setting up a dedicated camcorder.

 

[NextLevel]

Camera is Nikon S6800, but I bet there are many other options. I bought it specifically for the table tennis filming. Buying used/refurbished stuff is a great option if you want to save your money.

Forehand is looking good. It is only going to get better - just play more over the topspin ball, but even this is a good gap from what you had just a month ago - great progress. Maybe the next time we play, I probably won't be able to let you play forehand third ball.