Most Soft-Feeling Artificial Fiber

[kangminchan]

My coach has said it's time to switch to a new blade. I am currently playing with hurricane long 5, which has actually a pretty woody feel even with carbon in it. i am now looking into the Butterfly series and see these fibers: Super ZLC, ZLC. ZLF, ALC, AL, and Tamca 5000. (http://www.butterfly.tt/info/products/technology/blades/artificial-fibers) I've heard that ZLF is the most woody feeling but which one is? And does it feel soft/woody in comparison to all-wood blades?


P.S. I need some speed. That's why i'm looking into artificial fibers.

 

[MohdHafiz]

Do your coach said why you need to switch from HL5?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Sooo much going on here.

My first reaction is stick with what you have.

But, if you want faster, you are not going to want the ones that are soft and woody feeling. Because the ones that feel soft and woody are slower.

So cross AL and ZLF off your list because almost all of them will be 2-4 notches slower. There is one exception and I list it below.

An InnerForce ZLC or Apolonia blade would be about the same speed and sounds like what you actually would want. Except it isn’t really any faster than what you have.

A TB ZLC or a ZJK ZLC might be the speed you want.

There is one left field option; this is the exception to the rule that ZLF and AL blades are slower than ALC and ZLC blades: a Photino, which is a Hinoki + ZLF blade. It may be fast enough. It won’t really have a very woody feeling but Hinoki is an interesting wood.

The trouble with any suggestion is that, trying things is a better way to tell what you will actually want. And it is hard to get the opportunity to try these blades unless you know someone who has one of them.

If you do, ask if you can try it for 5 min or so.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Greco]

Yep, ZLF it's the most "woody" fiber, at least when talking about feeling. But it isn't the only option, i understand all the butterfly Innerfiber blades are generally soft.
I play with Liu Shiwen and yes, it's soft, but mine isn't slow for me. Maybe the Ai Fukuhara ZLF it's a bit faster.
I don't know about the Arylate blades, i think they may be soft, but i haven't tried any of them, they're not common.

Before the Liu Shiwen i played with Butterfly Kumpuru (T5000) and it was very soft for a carbon blade. It's not like the Innerforce T5000, the Kumpuru has three layers of wood, and the Innerforce has five. The Kumpuru it's also lighter and i think it has a bigger "head".

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@ Greco, the thing is, whether they are fast enough for you or not may not be the issue.

If kangminchan is saying that his coach said his HL5 is not fast enough for him, and the Liu Shiwen and Ai Fukahara are both slower than the HL5, then they may not be what kangminchan wants.

Oh, also, the AL blades I have felt are softer and slower than the ZLF blades I have felt. Just like the ALC blades I have felt are softer and slower than the ZLC blades of the same kind. So, I think Arylate is a little softer and a little slower than Zylon.

But it could be just the way Butterfly uses the materials that creates this effect.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OhWell]

My coach has said it's time to switch to a new blade. I am currently playing with hurricane long 5, which has actually a pretty woody feel even with carbon in it. i am now looking into the Butterfly series and see these fibers: Super ZLC, ZLC. ZLF, ALC, AL, and Tamca 5000. (http://www.butterfly.tt/info/products/technology/blades/artificial-fibers) I've heard that ZLF is the most woody feeling but which one is? And does it feel soft/woody in comparison to all-wood blades?


P.S. I need some speed. That's why i'm looking into artificial fibers.

What are the dimensions of the face of your H. Long 5 blade? AFAIK the HL5 blade faces were originally 161x151, but eventually reduced to 158x150 (after a few years). Besides the construction and materials, and especially if you have the longest 161x151 HL5, moving to the 157x150 of most of Butterfly's offensive composite blades might also help with speed.

 

[thomas.pong]

Oh, also, the AL blades I have felt are softer and slower than the ZLF blades I have felt. Just like the ALC blades I have felt are softer and slower than the ZLC blades of the same kind. So, I think Arylate is a little softer and a little slower than Zylon.

Hi Carl, what are your thoughts on SZLC vs. ZLC?

 

[ttmonster]

I think the most important thing is why your Coach wants you to switch ... you need to first ask him that ...

I have Long V and ZJK ALC and I have been switching back and forth between the two ... they are different beasts .. Butterfly ALC blades and DHS ALC blades , I think the carbon layers are positioned differently and also there is the Limba and Koto difference ...

I would strongly suggest you discuss with your coach and get the information on why he wants you to switch and also list down your expectations from the switch.

We have a ton of great EJs in this forum , if you make your requirements clear they would be able to help you better ...

 

[Greco]

Hmm then i don't know if there's a lot of composite blades faster that that and with some woody feeling.
Why not an all wood blade?
There are some fast all wood blades

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hmm then i don't know if there's a lot of composite blades faster that that and with some woody feeling.
Why not an all wood blade?
There are some fast all wood blades

Yep. That is the tricky part. If he is saying he wants a blade that is faster than what he has but has a woody feel, then he may already have the fastest of that kind of blade.

What are the dimensions of the face of your H. Long 5 blade? AFAIK the HL5 blade faces were originally 161x151, but eventually reduced to 158x150 (after a few years). Besides the construction and materials, and especially if you have the longest 161x151 HL5, moving to the 157x150 of most of Butterfly's offensive composite blades might also help with speed.

The interesting thing about this is, there is a yes and a no to it.

A larger blade face will add feeling and make the blade a little faster. But it will make it head heavy and that will make it harder for you to move the racket as fast.

But if you have a racket with a head size that is 150x157mm and it is faster than another racket that is 151x161mm, then, it will be faster (having nothing to do with the head size) and you will be able to move your arm faster.

Hi Carl, what are your thoughts on SZLC vs. ZLC?

I don’t really like the SZLC blades I have tried. From close to the table they were fine but didn’t feel like anything special to me. From further back the Extra Zylon made the blade feel unstable to me.

While Michael Landers was still sponsored by Butterfly, he got a ZJK SZLC and I thought it was okay but not too different from a Viscaria from close and from far it was just not great. However, his description of the blade was: “unplayable.”

I think it is just too much soft plastic-like material in the blade.

I like the ALC versions better. And I like the regular ZLC versions better. But I still like ALC better than ZLC. Except for with the InnerForce. The InnerForce ZLC is really nice. But it is about the same speed as a Viscaria.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[thomas.pong]

I don’t really like the SZLC blades I have tried. From close to the table they were fine but didn’t feel like anything special to me. From further back the Extra Zylon made the blade feel unstable to me.

While Michael Landers was still sponsored by Butterfly, he got a ZJK SZLC and I thought it was okay but not too different from a Viscaria from close and from far it was just not great. However, his description of the blade was: “unplayable.”

I think it is just too much soft plastic-like material in the blade.

I like the ALC versions better. And I like the regular ZLC versions better. But I still like ALC better than ZLC. Except for with the InnerForce. The InnerForce ZLC is really nice. But it is about the same speed as a Viscaria.

Thank you for the valuable info!

It seems like most of the Butterfly-sponsored players in the US who play with ZJK either chose ZLC or ALC but never SZLC. I always thought there has to be something to it, and your and Michael's impressions make sense of it.

Is Michael still playing regularly these days?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thank you for the valuable info!

It seems like most of the Butterfly-sponsored players in the US who play with ZJK either chose ZLC or ALC but never SZLC. I always thought there has to be something to it, and your and Michael's impressions make sense of it.

Is Michael still playing regularly these days?

Not entirely sure how much Mike is playing these days. The last time I saw him he was coaching someone. It was in July.

With the SZLCs, of course everyone is going to feel something different. But that was my read on it and I think Mike’s stronger opinion is that he does like to play from all distances and even mix chopping in with the offense.

But I have noticed that, not too many pros use the SZLC even in the top 100.

I also notice the top pros seem to use the ALC blades a decent amount more than the ZLC blades.

I do think there is something special about the combination of Koto and ALC.

But the Limba ZLC blade it says you are using is pretty nice too. And I would say, I feel like ZLC goes better with Limba.

I do think ALC works well with Limba. But I don’t really like ZLC with Koto. You lose something with the gain in speed.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttmonster]

@UpSideDownCarl : You should write a whitepaper on table tennis blades ! Kudos for the wonderful and succinct post .. .

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Kudos for the wonderful and succinct post .. .

Hahaha. Me....succinct....this may be a first. [emoji2] hahahahaha.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[kangminchan]

What are the dimensions of the face of your H. Long 5 blade? AFAIK the HL5 blade faces were originally 161x151, but eventually reduced to 158x150 (after a few years). Besides the construction and materials, and especially if you have the longest 161x151 HL5, moving to the 157x150 of most of Butterfly's offensive composite blades might also help with speed.

The smaller one.

 

[kangminchan]

Thank you guys all for your replies. I think my coach has an irrational faith in Butterfly carbon blades or something. He always scowls at me when he sees me with a new sheet of hurricane 3. I guess im going to talk to him about why i need to switch. However, the hinoki-zlc combo intrigues me. I'll think about this whole thing too.

 

[darucla]

If you want something a little faster thn the HL V, you might consider the N301. This is quite rare, and quite expensive. So you may be advised to try the H301 (£30) instead, as an experiment. I find I can switch between the FB 2 (same construction as HL V, but not identical) and the H301 without major trauma. They feel similar, but the H301, which has koto outer instead of the limba on the FB 2/HL V, is a lttle faster. Also, has a bigger (nicer IMHO) handle.

You will find that an outer-layer ZLC/Hinoki combination is very different. I have a Xiom Vega Tour, and it is a different beast altogether to the DHS blades. I must admit to far-preferring the DHS ones.

 

[Greco]

Mazunov is an excellent blade and it's fast.
The Hinoki Shake Speedy is another fast allwood blade, it was very popular here (until 2 or 3 years ago), but i don't know if it's still on production.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Mazunov is an excellent blade and it's fast.
The Hinoki Shake Speedy is another fast allwood blade, it was very popular here (until 2 or 3 years ago), but i don't know if it's still on production.

The Mazinov is also not as fast as the HL5. Butterfly lists it as Off+ but that rating is from the 1980s and back then it was considered Off+ but it would not be considered Off+ today.

 

[rokphish]

http://butterflyonline.com/2017_Butterfly_North_America_Catalog/mobile/index.html#p=21