My Butterfly Dignics 09C Review: Why I think that most amateur players should avoid it

[victormanriquey]

Hey everybody,

I come today with a (possibly) controversial topic after having tried 3 sheets of Dignics 09c (1.9 and 2.1) for about a year on 3 different blades (Nittaku Violin, DHS PG7 and DHS Wang Chuqin). My testing was done approx 80% of the time on BH and 20% on FH, as for my forehand I much prefer the Hurricane 3 Neo (but I tried nevertheless!).

My conclusion after the testing period is: I think that most amateur players (USATT <1800 or TTR <1450 approx) should avoid it because they will not be able to activate the sponge constantly during a rally and thus not get the benefits the rubber offers for the price that it costs. It can also lead to bad technical habits (racket angle too closed, too much brushing) and unforced errors while adjusting to the high throw angle and rubber overall. Plus it's not as easy to use in the passive game that most amateurs find themselves often into (myself included of course).

I have put all my in-depth findings here and also some of the alternatives to it (there are too many, not all are in there). There is also links to other communities and forums (like this one) for crediting those authors and having different views on the matter.

Blogpost link: https://www.tabletennisequipmenthelp.com/blog/dignics-09c-review-amateurs

I hope you will enjoy the read and always please give your feedback and opinion, diversity of opinions is important! This is not the truth, it's just my truth

Thanks,

Victor

 

[GhostBackhand]

I don’t think it’s entirely like that. I also consider myself an amateur player, and I switched from tensor rubbers (T05, T80, T19, D05, etc.) to Dignics 09C on both sides. I feel that my attacking power has decreased a little, but my consistency has improved, and my backhand flick has become much easier. In my country, many amateur players use Dignics 09C; it’s one of the best-selling rubbers here. There must be some reasons why so many people choose to use it.

 

[joshmak10]

I considered the high throw angle to be advantageous to giving me a better BH technique. Now I feel I hit brush better than over with great safety and massive power. Its true that it is not a slow rubber either, but it is definitely slower than most of its hybrid competitors (Rakza Z is the only one i can think of as a slower alternative but it sucks). Personally, I would definitely recommend 09c to people for BH, and FH if they dont use a Chinese style to play, its such safe rubber that is more forgiving than H3 but doesnt develop lazy technique like tensors, and is a great option to even beginners so that they dont have to upgrade to better rubbers than than if the use a say Glayzer 09c in the beginning (not tryna be insulting, but G09c really sucks)

 

[victormanriquey]

I don’t think it’s entirely like that. I also consider myself an amateur player, and I switched from tensor rubbers (T05, T80, T19, D05, etc.) to Dignics 09C on both sides. I feel that my attacking power has decreased a little, but my consistency has improved, and my backhand flick has become much easier. In my country, many amateur players use Dignics 09C; it’s one of the best-selling rubbers here. There must be some reasons why so many people choose to use it.

Ah yes, this is what I mean with different perspectives, great argument here, and it's not wrong, just a matter of perspective, so I'll give you my two cents on how I see this situation:

Since the Tenergy series, particularly T05, but also Dignics 05 are faster and wilder than 09c, it feels like 09c is a more controlled and calm rubber. But that is because you come from a Ferrari yourself, so now the dignics 09c feels like a mercedes, it's still fast and very spinny, but more secure and tolerant.

I'd still argue, but please let's discuss because this is very subjective, that most other hybrids and tensors will give you more speed and spin when not used at 100% stroke speed/impact plus cost half the price. And they will do so while being more tolerant of throw angles, passive returns and unforced errors.

However, maybe in your particular case you are downplaying yourself a bit and you are actually more an advanced player and not so much an intermediate

 

[joshmak10]

Ah yes, this is what I mean with different perspectives, great argument here, and it's not wrong, just a matter of perspective, so I'll give you my two cents on how I see this situation:

Since the Tenergy series, particularly T05, but also Dignics 05 are faster and wilder than 09c, it feels like 09c is a more controlled and calm rubber. But that is because you come from a Ferrari yourself, so now the dignics 09c feels like a mercedes, it's still fast and very spinny, but more secure and tolerant.

I'd still argue, but please let's discuss because this is very subjective, that most other hybrids and tensors will give you more speed and spin when not used at 100% stroke speed/impact plus cost half the price. And they will do so while being more tolerant of throw angles, passive returns and unforced errors.

However, maybe in your particular case you are downplaying yourself a bit and you are actually more an advanced player and not so much an intermediate

But these other hybrids and tensors dont last as long either, and give you only 70-80% shot quality of a dignics rubber imo. In my eyes, the value of spending more for a better rubber for a longer time than spending less for a downgrade that dies in a month or two is worth it, although I understand people have different budgets

 

[victormanriquey]

I considered the high throw angle to be advantageous to giving me a better BH technique. Now I feel I hit brush better than over with great safety and massive power. Its true that it is not a slow rubber either, but it is definitely slower than most of its hybrid competitors (Rakza Z is the only one i can think of as a slower alternative but it sucks). Personally, I would definitely recommend 09c to people for BH, and FH if they dont use a Chinese style to play, its such safe rubber that is more forgiving than H3 but doesnt develop lazy technique like tensors, and is a great option to even beginners so that they dont have to upgrade to better rubbers than than if the use a say Glayzer 09c in the beginning (not tryna be insulting, but G09c really sucks)

I wonder @joshmak10 if you have reached the sufficient technical level to activate the D09c sponge constantly through shots, as I think (from previous posts that we interacted together) that you use a chinese forehand and thus seem to properly understand the hit-brush technique.

Because in that case, then 09c is a great BH rubber, I agree to that as I used it mostly on my BH as well. The quality of my opening loops increased a lot, but I could not reliably activate the sponge on a long lasting rally if the opponent put a lot of pressure on my bh with aggresive shots. It's also an issue if you are on the defense

By the way, and by no means I feel insulted! I have tried glayzer 09c a lot as well as my training partner has it, and I don't think it sucks that much, it's a bit of everything but has a decent 09c feeling and for a person that enjoys D09c, G09c is not a bad in-between step. But hey, as always, diversity of opinions is important and this is all subjective feelings

 

[joshmak10]

I wonder @joshmak10 if you have reached the sufficient technical level to activate the D09c sponge constantly through shots, as I think (from previous posts that we interacted together) that you use a chinese forehand and thus seem to properly understand the hit-brush technique.

Because in that case, then 09c is a great BH rubber, I agree to that as I used it mostly on my BH as well. The quality of my opening loops increased a lot, but I could not reliably activate the sponge on a long lasting rally if the opponent put a lot of pressure on my bh with aggresive shots. It's also an issue if you are on the defense

By the way, and by no means I feel insulted! I have tried glayzer 09c a lot as well as my training partner has it, and I don't think it sucks that much, it's a bit of everything but has a decent 09c feeling and for a person that enjoys D09c, G09c is not a bad in-between step. But hey, as always, diversity of opinions is important and this is all subjective feelings

I am honestly not a good player. But with 09c, my BH becomes lethal, no other rubber can replicate it and no other rubbers feels comfortable to me (although 8-80 is a pretty decent second). I do agree that on defense it can be tough, but it is better than most other similar rubbers in my view. I also believe using 8-20 for me really made me appreciate how sufficient D09c is at all the things that are more typical of a tensor rubber, like blocks.

With H3 on my FH, you are correct that I more use a Chinese technique to play the FH. It took me a while to get used to it, but then no other rubber comapred. I think chinese style of playing helped me to be much less lazy in playing, thus why I believe i can hit brush a bit better than most amatuers. Quite honestly, I would describe myself as Togami style of play (hard hitting, unstoppable shots on good days, unplayable on bad days).

Of course, a rubbers performance is subjective. I think using high level rubbers from the beginning already gave me a negative mindset on a rubber like G09c, which felt so slow and dead even compared to a Hurricane.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi @victormanriquey

I would generally agree with the assessment that it is much more difficult to get the ball into topsheet and sponge than many rubbers with similar overall sponge hardness.

I would agree that the very thing he mentioned (hard topsheet) makes it more more difficult to use topsheet wrap and use sponge. This is speaking about shots where the bat is not max speed. Not every amateur player does every shot with max bat speed and some do not make good bat speed. Also... It isn't terrible at serve receive or pushing.

The purpose of equipment is to make it easier to do something. That opening topspin requires a higher degree of acceleration and fast bat speed by the time of impact... and a certain control of impact... many amateur players do not have that.

09C makes it pretty easy to do a more open bat hit through the ball (think medium and fast loop) so not a total inappropriate choice for that shot... but players should do a holistic look at what they do and what shots they do the most... and which ones affect point and game outcome the most...

Myself, I require a much softer topsheet for my FH rubber... that is why I like Aurus... and Rasanter... and Nexy Etika 51 (yes, even at 51 sponge I can get through topsheet and use sponge) Easy to get through topsheet make it easy for my kind of shots and good impact easier to achieve.

 

[Tyce]

I think the question is, do you need to be able to use the sponge, when playing with the topsheet alone is already so good?
There's nothing keeping anyone from, successfully, using a rubber in a way that is not exactly what the manufacturer designed it for. If you want to commute in a Ferrari, I'm sure it will be fine. It's just not a way to learn racing.

 

[jk1980]

In my country, many amateur players use Dignics 09C; it’s one of the best-selling rubbers here. There must be some reasons why so many people choose to use it.

By that very logic dignics 09c might also be the reason these amatdurs dont progress and stay lower league hobby players that dont learn proper technique

 

[victormanriquey]

I am honestly not a good player. But with 09c, my BH becomes lethal, no other rubber can replicate it and no other rubbers feels comfortable to me (although 8-80 is a pretty decent second). I do agree that on defense it can be tough, but it is better than most other similar rubbers in my view. I also believe using 8-20 for me really made me appreciate how sufficient D09c is at all the things that are more typical of a tensor rubber, like blocks.

With H3 on my FH, you are correct that I more use a Chinese technique to play the FH. It took me a while to get used to it, but then no other rubber comapred. I think chinese style of playing helped me to be much less lazy in playing, thus why I believe i can hit brush a bit better than most amatuers. Quite honestly, I would describe myself as Togami style of play (hard hitting, unstoppable shots on good days, unplayable on bad days).

Of course, a rubbers performance is subjective. I think using high level rubbers from the beginning already gave me a negative mindset on a rubber like G09c, which felt so slow and dead even compared to a Hurricane.

I will for sure agree to the 8-80 feeling, it's my current BH rubber of choice

And yes on blocks I struggled a lot, it really forced me to counterloop, but I'm just not good enough to always be in position for a strong counterloop, now with 8-80 I can block more consistently when needed, I'm 36 and the legs do what they can, but I'm not 25 anymore haha

And agreed on H3N fully, once you get it, you want nothing else! I guess I can be a togami too sometimes xD

And lastly, yes if you play D09c or a well boosted H3N, then glayzer feels a bit for children but overall is not a bad rubber, give it a chance one day again

 

[victormanriquey]

Hi @victormanriquey

I would generally agree with the assessment that it is much more difficult to get the ball into topsheet and sponge than many rubbers with similar overall sponge hardness.

I would agree that the very thing he mentioned (hard topsheet) makes it more more difficult to use topsheet wrap and use sponge. This is speaking about shots where the bat is not max speed. Not every amateur player does every shot with max bat speed and some do not make good bat speed. Also... It isn't terrible at serve receive or pushing.

The purpose of equipment is to make it easier to do something. That opening topspin requires a higher degree of acceleration and fast bat speed by the time of impact... and a certain control of impact... many amateur players do not have that.

09C makes it pretty easy to do a more open bat hit through the ball (think medium and fast loop) so not a total inappropriate choice for that shot... but players should do a holistic look at what they do and what shots they do the most... and which ones affect point and game outcome the most...

Myself, I require a much softer topsheet for my FH rubber... that is why I like Aurus... and Rasanter... and Nexy Etika 51 (yes, even at 51 sponge I can get through topsheet and use sponge) Easy to get through topsheet make it easy for my kind of shots and good impact easier to achieve.

This is a very good analysis of the situation @Der_Echte , as per usual when it comes from you, thanks for sharing

And hey, there is nothing wrong with the Aurus or Rasanter on FH. I did some little shoppings (got totally out of hand quickly) last week and got a C48 (plus 20 other rubbers and 10 blades LOL) to try it and compare it with H3N, heard good things about it! Oh and, I used R47 before, good rubber for sure.

 

[NextLevel]

I wonder @joshmak10 if you have reached the sufficient technical level to activate the D09c sponge constantly through shots, as I think (from previous posts that we interacted together) that you use a chinese forehand and thus seem to properly understand the hit-brush technique.

Because in that case, then 09c is a great BH rubber, I agree to that as I used it mostly on my BH as well. The quality of my opening loops increased a lot, but I could not reliably activate the sponge on a long lasting rally if the opponent put a lot of pressure on my bh with aggresive shots. It's also an issue if you are on the defense

By the way, and by no means I feel insulted! I have tried glayzer 09c a lot as well as my training partner has it, and I don't think it sucks that much, it's a bit of everything but has a decent 09c feeling and for a person that enjoys D09c, G09c is not a bad in-between step. But hey, as always, diversity of opinions is important and this is all subjective feelings

What a player says about G09c tells you a lot about what they think a good rubber should do. I understand the idea that it sucks (the balls are not as threatening as Dignics 09c) but this is wrong (there are a lot of control elements that offset this especially in the short and blocking game if you are an all round player and can work on keeping the opponent close to the table or flat countering reliably).

 

[victormanriquey]

I think the question is, do you need to be able to use the sponge, when playing with the topsheet alone is already so good?
There's nothing keeping anyone from, successfully, using a rubber in a way that is not exactly what the manufacturer designed it for. If you want to commute in a Ferrari, I'm sure it will be fine. It's just not a way to learn racing.

For sure @Tyce , the topsheet is devilish on a good brush, but it's important to be intentional about it

And hey, if you can pay the Ferrari, why not drive it? Just dont crash it like afrojack 😅

 

[victormanriquey]

By that very logic dignics 09c might also be the reason these amatdurs dont progress and stay lower league hobby players that dont learn proper technique

It is very possible that with some people this is the case @jk1980

 

[victormanriquey]

What a player says about G09c tells you a lot about what they think a good rubber should do. I understand the idea that it sucks (the balls are not as threatening as Dignics 09c) but this is wrong (there are a lot of control elements that offset this especially in the short and blocking game if you are an all round player and can work on keeping the opponent close to the table or flat countering reliably).

Yes @NextLevel this is why I mentioned to Josh that I understand his perspective but to give it a second chance, my training partner uses G09c and he is very happy about it, I have tried it enough to say is a good rubber that I would recommend to people looking for a more controlled, cheaper, D09c-like experience

But in any case, I respect and value all the different opinions!

 

[joshmak10]

What a player says about G09c tells you a lot about what they think a good rubber should do. I understand the idea that it sucks (the balls are not as threatening as Dignics 09c) but this is wrong (there are a lot of control elements that offset this especially in the short and blocking game if you are an all round player and can work on keeping the opponent close to the table or flat countering reliably).

Which is why the usual consensus that everyone has their own opinion about a rubber exists. For me, G09c sucks but to others it might be their holy grail. It’s not “wrong” that it sucks, but rather for me and my game, it sucks

 

[joshmak10]

Yes @NextLevel this is why I mentioned to Josh that I understand his perspective but to give it a second chance, my training partner uses G09c and he is very happy about it, I have tried it enough to say is a good rubber that I would recommend to people looking for a more controlled, cheaper, D09c-like experience

But in any case, I respect and value all the different opinions!

Exactly right, opinions are allowed and as you have mentioned before, rubbers are all subjective opinions and one man’s best rubber is another man’s worst

 

[NextLevel]

Which is why the usual consensus that everyone has their own opinion about a rubber exists. For me, G09c sucks but to others it might be their holy grail. It’s not “wrong” that it sucks, but rather for me and my game, it sucks

Yeah. But my counter to that is that I don't think admittedly improving players should be relying on the marginal effects of top end rubbers to get their standard results. That should be reserved for later stages in TT development in my humble opinion. Of course, it is my opinion.

 

[ChientoLi]

I’ve used both D09C and H3N. H3N is just very different from Butterfly, Donic, or Tibhar rubbers. It is the most sticky rubber and gives you a lot of control, also the response is very linear. If you put in 30% power, you get 30%. If you put in 70%, you get 70%.
D09C feels different. It stays pretty linear below about 70%, but when you swing at around 70–80%, it suddenly kicks in much harder, almost like it jumps to 95% power. That sudden boost can make you lose control. If you don’t adjust for it, the rubber can feel unexpectedly hard and you will send the ball off the table.
So if you are not very comfortable generating power above 70%, I guess it is also hard to improve with D09C in practice.