My Journey: Keenan Southall (Vlogs)

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I'm sorry if Im going to offend you, but you are by no means a professional. Your strokes are fluid and at the same time awkward, especially your forehand topspin. Calling that a chinese style topspin is an insult to chinese. Your loop is way too high and slow. You use straight arm to loop, but with no wrist, no elbow snap. You lack power and consistency. Your footwork is also bad. I see that you have passion, but that (unfortunately) isn't everything. Unlike in football for example, in order to be the best at table tennis you have to start at very young age.
Your leg muscles are lousy.
Btw: Judging by the video with Keinath i've seen, he's the worst sparring you could get.
 
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I'm sorry if Im going to offend you, but you are by no means a professional. Your strokes are fluid and at the same time awkward, especially your forehand topspin. Calling that a chinese style topspin is an insult to chinese. Your loop is way too high and slow. You use straight arm to loop, but with no wrist, no elbow snap. You lack power and consistency. Your footwork is also bad. I see that you have passion, but that (unfortunately) isn't everything. Unlike in football for example, in order to be the best at table tennis you have to start at very young age.
Your leg muscles are lousy.
Btw: Judging by the video with Keinath i've seen, he's the worst sparring you could get.

It's ok, I don't try to pretend I am the best player. I just play full time and what I'm really trying to do is spread around the sport, and trying to get more people involved. I've talked before about (I think on my website) about how I feel I have a big disadvantage by starting so late. I know I have a lot of flaws in my game, as do a lot of people and that's ok. It means I'll always have something to improve on with myself which is totally fine by me. I am very skinny and I work out everyday at the gym, so it's not like I don't understand that. I appreciate the criticism


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I'll say it again, i'd hate to offend you and belittle your work and amazing progress that you made. Consider these an advice to becoming a lot better player. In fact, I'm in the same position as you.
I would like to read that article, could you please send me link? I happen to be just as old as you and I started playing around the time that you did.
 
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I'm sorry if Im going to offend you, but you are by no means a professional. Your strokes are fluid and at the same time awkward, especially your forehand topspin. Calling that a chinese style topspin is an insult to chinese. Your loop is way too high and slow. You use straight arm to loop, but with no wrist, no elbow snap. You lack power and consistency. Your footwork is also bad. I see that you have passion, but that (unfortunately) isn't everything. Unlike in football for example, in order to be the best at table tennis you have to start at very young age.
Your leg muscles are lousy.
Btw: Judging by the video with Keinath i've seen, he's the worst sparring you could get.

I've had the opportunity to meet Keenan on a random tournament during his stay in Germany and was baffled and amazed at the same time by his investment and tenacity with a clear goal in mind. The guy is the embodiment of ambition if you ask me.
I agree with you, the word professional might not be very suitable. I personally always associate a financial aspect with it and as far as I know the sport did not serve as a source of income just yet. Dedicated or passionate might be a better fit.

Now besides that, I feel like you're drawing an unfair comparison here. You judge his Forehand technique based on how the top 4 chinese in the world are doing it, and fair enough, a lot of people draw that comparison. Honestly, I realise that it's about the big picture and that's supposed to be the final product, but you cannot seriously expect anybody to imitate a movement within 2 years which took a professional athlete his entire lifetime to develop.
If your goal is to have a FH drive like the CNT does, then go for it. But give it time, keep the goal in mind and work towards it with babysteps, everything else is just gonna be frustrating as f*ck. Eventually the movement will be faster, the footwork will be better and the overall stroke will look and be more powerful.

On the topic of passion, I'm just gonna point towards the current #4 in the world. Dima had to listen to a dozen of people throughout his youth telling him that he should just drop it and that it's never gonna be enough to play with the big boys. And to be fair, his trainers weren't completely incorrect. In terms of raw talent, I would put someone like Timo Boll WAY ahead of Dima. Yet the guy made it, because he kept knocking his head against a wall and trained harder than anybody else in europe.

I wouldn't judge anybody's training methods or capability based on a 10 minute clip. Keinath is a beast, and definitely more than suffices as a sparring partner for anybody who is not rocking in the Bundesliga or on international level. Last I heard, he has quite the busy schedule, so give him a break ;)
 
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It's pretty unfortunate whenever people who choose to remain anonymous come out to make rude criticisms of people who have put themselves out there. No doubt, Keenan started late but he is putting in the time and effort and making the investment, whatever happens. People have started at 21 years old or later and broken USATT 2500 (TTR 2100-2200). In the end, time will tell.
 
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I'll say it again, i'd hate to offend you and belittle your work and amazing progress that you made. Consider these an advice to becoming a lot better player. In fact, I'm in the same position as you.
I would like to read that article, could you please send me link? I happen to be just as old as you and I started playing around the time that you did.
Any videotape of your impressive progress to show? It's commendable that you are doing so well.
 
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I've had the opportunity to meet Keenan on a random tournament during his stay in Germany and was baffled and amazed at the same time by his investment and tenacity with a clear goal in mind. The guy is the embodiment of ambition if you ask me.
I agree with you, the word professional might not be very suitable. I personally always associate a financial aspect with it and as far as I know the sport did not serve as a source of income just yet. Dedicated or passionate might be a better fit.

Now besides that, I feel like you're drawing an unfair comparison here. You judge his Forehand technique based on how the top 4 chinese in the world are doing it, and fair enough, a lot of people draw that comparison. Honestly, I realise that it's about the big picture and that's supposed to be the final product, but you cannot seriously expect anybody to imitate a movement within 2 years which took a professional athlete his entire lifetime to develop.
If your goal is to have a FH drive like the CNT does, then go for it. But give it time, keep the goal in mind and work towards it with babysteps, everything else is just gonna be frustrating as f*ck. Eventually the movement will be faster, the footwork will be better and the overall stroke will look and be more powerful.

On the topic of passion, I'm just gonna point towards the current #4 in the world. Dima had to listen to a dozen of people throughout his youth telling him that he should just drop it and that it's never gonna be enough to play with the big boys. And to be fair, his trainers weren't completely incorrect. In terms of raw talent, I would put someone like Timo Boll WAY ahead of Dima. Yet the guy made it, because he kept knocking his head against a wall and trained harder than anybody else in europe.

I wouldn't judge anybody's training methods or capability based on a 10 minute clip. Keinath is a beast, and definitely more than suffices as a sparring partner for anybody who is not rocking in the Bundesliga or on international level. Last I heard, he has quite the busy schedule, so give him a break ;)

Thanks Alex, you're a great friend. I like all of the good points that you made, and kept it respectable.


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It's pretty unfortunate whenever people who choose to remain anonymous come out to make rude criticisms of people who have put themselves out there. No doubt, Keenan started late but he is putting in the time and effort and making the investment, whatever happens. People have started at 21 years old or later and broken USATT 2500 (TTR 2100-2200). In the end, time will tell.

Thanks also for the support! It means a lot, I guess since I'm putting myself out in public like this, I need to get used to criticism and negative posts. But yes, I really do try my hardest and that's really all I can do, I can't turn back the clock and start playing at 5 or 6, heck if I could've started playing a year earlier then I did, then id still be happy. But I can't do that, so all I can do is try and hope for the best.


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I'll say it again, i'd hate to offend you and belittle your work and amazing progress that you made. Consider these an advice to becoming a lot better player. In fact, I'm in the same position as you.
I would like to read that article, could you please send me link? I happen to be just as old as you and I started playing around the time that you did.

Don't worry about it, also I think it's fun for myself to see and track my progress with the help of the Internet, and I hope you keep playing and having fun with tt [emoji6] http://keenansouthall.jimdo.com here's a link to my website, it's not much but I work a little bit on it everyday. If you would like me to make a post or video about something, feel free to ask!


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It's pretty unfortunate whenever people who choose to remain anonymous come out to make rude criticisms of people who have put themselves out there. No doubt, Keenan started late but he is putting in the time and effort and making the investment, whatever happens. People have started at 21 years old or later and broken USATT 2500 (TTR 2100-2200). In the end, time will tell.
Well, that's the purpose of "putting yourself out there" right? To get people to know him and ofc to receive constructive critics. If I wanted to be rude, I'd have used entirely different words. But maybe the language barrier made it sound rude for which i apologized already.

Any videotape of your impressive progress to show? It's commendable that you are doing so well.
Haha no way, What I meant was I started late as him. Not that my skills are on the same level. No way. Close, but not enough i'd say.
 
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.....
On the topic of passion, I'm just gonna point towards the current #4 in the world. Dima had to listen to a dozen of people throughout his youth telling him that he should just drop it and that it's never gonna be enough to play with the big boys. And to be fair, his trainers weren't completely incorrect. In terms of raw talent, I would put someone like Timo Boll WAY ahead of Dima. Yet the guy made it, because he kept knocking his head against a wall and trained harder than anybody else in europe.
Beautiful. Thanks mate.

I wouldn't judge anybody's training methods or capability based on a 10 minute clip. Keinath is a beast, and definitely more than suffices as a sparring partner for anybody who is not rocking in the Bundesliga or on international level. Last I heard, he has quite the busy schedule, so give him a break ;)

This actually made my day.
[Emoji2]
Thanks a lot for posting. I'll soon be practicing with Thommy again and I'm really lookin' forward to it.
 
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Any videotape of your impressive progress to show? It's commendable that you are doing so well.

[Emoji3]

I think I slowly start getting what you've been saying. Took a little while, but here I am ;)
Thanks

Well, that's the purpose of "putting yourself out there" right? To get people to know him and ofc to receive constructive critics. If I wanted to be rude, I'd have used entirely different words. But maybe the language barrier made it sound rude for which i apologized already.


Haha no way, What I meant was I started late as him. Not that my skills are on the same level. No way. Close, but not enough i'd say.

I think what NL meant is, that people wouldn't make such harsh comments, once other people have seen their playing level.
 
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I've had the opportunity to meet Keenan on a random tournament during his stay in Germany and was baffled and amazed at the same time by his investment and tenacity with a clear goal in mind. The guy is the embodiment of ambition if you ask me.
I agree with you, the word professional might not be very suitable. I personally always associate a financial aspect with it and as far as I know the sport did not serve as a source of income just yet. Dedicated or passionate might be a better fit.

Now besides that, I feel like you're drawing an unfair comparison here. You judge his Forehand technique based on how the top 4 chinese in the world are doing it, and fair enough, a lot of people draw that comparison. Honestly, I realise that it's about the big picture and that's supposed to be the final product, but you cannot seriously expect anybody to imitate a movement within 2 years which took a professional athlete his entire lifetime to develop.
If your goal is to have a FH drive like the CNT does, then go for it. But give it time, keep the goal in mind and work towards it with babysteps, everything else is just gonna be frustrating as f*ck. Eventually the movement will be faster, the footwork will be better and the overall stroke will look and be more powerful.

On the topic of passion, I'm just gonna point towards the current #4 in the world. Dima had to listen to a dozen of people throughout his youth telling him that he should just drop it and that it's never gonna be enough to play with the big boys. And to be fair, his trainers weren't completely incorrect. In terms of raw talent, I would put someone like Timo Boll WAY ahead of Dima. Yet the guy made it, because he kept knocking his head against a wall and trained harder than anybody else in europe.

I wouldn't judge anybody's training methods or capability based on a 10 minute clip. Keinath is a beast, and definitely more than suffices as a sparring partner for anybody who is not rocking in the Bundesliga or on international level. Last I heard, he has quite the busy schedule, so give him a break ;)

This is a great post. More people should be hitting the LIKE button. Good stuff. Thanks Tryzerlol.
 
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[Emoji3]

I think I slowly start getting what you've been saying. Took a little while, but here I am ;)
Thanks



I think what NL meant is, that people wouldn't make such harsh comments, once other people have seen their playing level.

Yes! And even if they do, once you have seen them play, it takes away 90% of the impact because you can tell they have no clue what they are talking about. I have seen people do this kind of stuff over and over again and the pattern is always the same - you will hear someone giving random advice that sounds good but shows no real understanding of how complex the improvement process is. People who have put in the hours to get good and understand the process will never trivialize it, especially if they did most of it in adulthood.
 
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Any videotape of your impressive progress to show? It's commendable that you are doing so well.

Haha no way, What I meant was I started late as him. Not that my skills are on the same level. No way. Close, but not enough i'd say.

You see, the thing is, you are responding like people are going to tear you down for posting footage of yourself. Someone like NextLevel is dedicated to playing and improving. He posts video footage of himself, ALL THE TIME. Guess what, as a result, he is polite when he has constructive criticism. But he has learned a lot and got better much faster by not being shy about showing who he is and how he plays.

Your comment shows that you are basically hiding behind a glowing screen on the internet. But the truth of the matter is, NextLevel did not mean, "show us footage so we can tear you down the way you tore Keenan down." Generally, when people post footage of themselves, they end up being more careful, more thoughtful and MORE CONSTRUCTIVE when they make comments about others. In fact there are a few people on the forum who think that, before anyone criticizes how another person plays on this forum, they should post footage of themselves because, most likely, they will think more carefully how to word things when they do have "constructive criticism".

Anyway, Keenan seems to have taken what you said with a great deal of maturity. But, let me ask you some questions:

Calling that a chinese style topspin is an insult to chinese.

If you did not mean to offend, well, what on earth is this statement? This statement could only be worded that way to offend. I mean....really. And this is not an issue of a language barrier. You know what you are saying here. And you write well enough that you could have thought about what you meant and said it in a way that got the message across with much more maturity and kindness instead of blunt rudeness.

Your footwork is also bad....Your leg muscles are lousy.

Explain to me any way in which this can be construed as anything other than a direct and personal insult. Keenan is playing for a fairly short amount of time and has gotten fairly decent much faster than most. Genetically, everyone has different body types. And you are insulting his legs!!!!! What!!!! Note the word insulting! You are clearly insulting Keenan despite saying you don't mean to offend.

Btw: Judging by the video with Keinath i've seen, he's the worst sparring you could get.

Wait, you feel like it is okay for you to say this, and yet, you won't post video footage of yourself. And somehow, in spite of these things you seem to have implied that: 1) You and Keenan are in the same boat, having started late and progressed fast, 2) That you are nowhere near as good as him, AND 3) That you are close to as good as him.

I would say, you crossed a line and people so far have been nice to you about it.

Post some footage buddy. Then you will understand why it is worth choosing your words more carefully. And not because anyone here is going to comment on your form, skills or level. But because, when you have your own footage out there, you realize that it is worth being kind when other people have their footage out there. Man up. Get some footage of yourself and post it.

Otherwise, I say you owe Keenan an apology for saying things in as bluntly rude a manner as you could.

Consider these an advice to becoming a lot better player.

Show me one comment you made that would help anyone become a better player. "Your forehand sucks, Your leg muscles are lousy, you chose the worst possible sparring partner you could get." Really? Really!!!

None of what you said could possibly be construed as constructive. Man Up. Post video.
 
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Yes! And even if they do, once you have seen them play, it takes away 90% of the impact because you can tell they have no clue what they are talking about. I have seen people do this kind of stuff over and over again and the pattern is always the same - you will hear someone giving random advice that sounds good but shows no real understanding of how complex the improvement process is. People who have put in the hours to get good and understand the process will never trivialize it, especially if they did most of it in adulthood.

Yep. That is totally true. And the thing is, "Calling that a Chinese topspin is an insult to the Chinese," "Your footwork is bad....Your leg muscles are lousy" "....he's the worst sparring partner you could get." None of this is advice. These are really plain, unfiltered insults. I don't see one constructive comment.

Here, lets see if I could turn the insults into ways of wording things constructively:

"Your forehand has gotten much better in the last year and is way more fluid. If you were a little more relaxed you might get more whipping action from your forehand and wrist. Keep working on it and you will continue to improve."

"You have made solid progress with your footwork, but footwork is one of the hardest aspects of the game to improve. You need to keep working on it and perhaps add some leg strengthening exercises like squats and leg press."

"You seem to be progressing very well, but it may be in your best interest to try several coaches. Sometimes, by working with multiple coaches you end up finding that different coaches help you with different aspects of the game."

Now, I have to be honest with you, I don't know that Keenan needs any of that advice. For someone playing for as short a time as Keenan, who started as late as he did, the progress he has made, the development of skills he has worked so hard to achieve, he is doing so much that is RIGHT FOR HIM that I would just say: "GOOD JOB KEENAN! Keep up the good work."
 
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It's pretty unfortunate whenever people who choose to remain anonymous come out to make rude criticisms of people who have put themselves out there. No doubt, Keenan started late but he is putting in the time and effort and making the investment, whatever happens. People have started at 21 years old or later and broken USATT 2500 (TTR 2100-2200). In the end, time will tell.

well the other day some kid came saying he was a pro and asking if he should use viscaria or hurricane long v.
everybody destroyed him.
so having this in mind I think everybody's been quite easy on keenan southhall.
specially after he makes a video saying "introduction to professional table tennis".
but to me it's ok, if he said "look, I suck, please don't watch my videos" nobody would watch it.

as for the technique I do find something strange about his stroke.
it's like every once in a while when he loops the ball bounces on his side without even reaching the net.
I haven't seen this happen before to anybody.
but he's been coached by thomas heinath, there's probably nothing I can say to him that will help.
 
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