new human conflict situation

[kukamonga]

not cool bro.

well it's kind of what you said before.
he could stop and say "are you going to aim to bh or to the middle?"
then we'd agree on something and that's it.
but he would never say anything, he'd just talk to the coach in german, so the whole situation was bizarre.

 

[izra]

well it's kind of what you said before.
he could stop and say "are you going to aim to bh or to the middle?"
then we'd agree on something and that's it.
but he would never say anything, he'd just talk to the coach in german, so the whole situation was bizarre.

but he didn't know if you were doing this on purpose or because your aim was bad or what. you should have stopped and checked what the correct drill was. performing it in the correct order would have made it a much more enjoyable experience for both of you.

 

[Der_Echte]

Recently I complained about a player that didn't toss the ball up. I don't mean he didn't toss it 6 inches, I mean, he didn't toss the ball at all, but rather threw it back towards his paddle. He was a penholder and was super pissed I even brought it up. He didn't stop, so I started blatantly hiding my serves! Hahahaa. He was better than me, but I won based on the serve hiding.

As for hidden serves in general, I wll say that I won't call it if I am winning easily, but I mention it to them after I win the game. If it's close, I'll call a let and let them know they're hiding.

My old practice partner was a guy who hid his serves, but legitimately had no idea. He worked on his pendulum and has now cleaned that up. It IS possible you might be hiding, but aren't aware of it, and that many of your opponents just don't mind.

Sutanit Tangyingyong, our NexyUSA CEo taught me that in the club, we should ENCOURAGE our opponents to hide serves.

Why? Players hide serves when there are no umpires (like 99% of USA matches) and hide them even when umpire is watching, so this helps one better cope down the line.

I used to get really upset about such a thing at the club and would insist in strong terms they comply. I was in a bad mindset of winning, not training. I should use matches at club to learn or practice something, yet the competitor in me always wants to win, even in the smallest things. I have to deliberately think and change, lose the will to win for that match.

Now I get upset if playing conditions are too cramped and un-necessary stuff happens. I ought to use this as training too, since not every tourney has decent spacing with tables. I am in need of attitude adjustment myself.

 

[ttmonster]

I would say introduce him to the forum and once he gets to know you better he will stop complaining about the serves and what not ...

 

[braithey]

Service is pretty clear to me in terms of the rules, however here in the UK at local, regional and even national competition level the adherence to the rules seems to have gone out of the window. I have come across players who will not throw the ball up and serve out of their hands despite being asked repeatedly to stop. Other players who mask the contact of bat and ball with their hand, arm and or body. But if your game official will not impose the rule as the opposing player there is nothing you can do. Very frustrating. I don't know if you do or do not hide the ball during serve and if you do whether it is deliberate or not but I can tell you I personally get very annoyed with players who make little to no effort to abide by the service rules.

Secondly it seems to be the case that when players complain about their opponents serve's they are often called bad losers or have a bad attitude. But let me ask you this if your opponent is deliberately breaking the service rule to gain an advantage and will not stop after being asked and the umpire does not call them on it do you expect them to say nothing and smile and shake hands after the game despite being cheated.

 

[braithey]

Wrong about hiding serves with your body it is perfectly feasible check out Wang Hao. He used to throw the ball backwards and mask the point of contact with his shoulder.

 

[kukamonga]

it's very difficult to hide a serve, even if you try to.
you have to place your arm in a specific place at a specific time.
even when they leave the arm, leave the body, you can see most times.
that's why I never complained about this in my life.

also I think the place generally has a mindset of complaining and conflict and like all this emotional stuff going on.
in other places it's more like relaxed and people would never complain because they just want to have a good time and that's all.

here for example not long ago in the middle of the training one kid suddenly leaves after losing to this other guy.
the other guy stands in front of the door like to keep him from leaving, then he leaves anyway and the coach stops playing and goes chase him.
then the coach comes back screaming a bit, then the kid comes he leaves again, the coach in the end stays talking to the other guy (the one who won) like half an hour.

so it's like all this is normal, there's this frustration in people which I think comes from having a hard time accepting that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

 

[kukamonga]

Service is pretty clear to me in terms of the rules, however here in the UK at local, regional and even national competition level the adherence to the rules seems to have gone out of the window. I have come across players who will not throw the ball up and serve out of their hands despite being asked repeatedly to stop. Other players who mask the contact of bat and ball with their hand, arm and or body. But if your game official will not impose the rule as the opposing player there is nothing you can do. Very frustrating. I don't know if you do or do not hide the ball during serve and if you do whether it is deliberate or not but I can tell you I personally get very annoyed with players who make little to no effort to abide by the service rules.

Secondly it seems to be the case that when players complain about their opponents serve's they are often called bad losers or have a bad attitude. But let me ask you this if your opponent is deliberately breaking the service rule to gain an advantage and will not stop after being asked and the umpire does not call them on it do you expect them to say nothing and smile and shake hands after the game despite being cheated.

this was not a tournament, not a competitive match, just a match for fun.
I train with him many times, we do drills, we played matches.... but he never complained.
this was the first time I ended up beating him 3-0 and the first time he complained.

 

[braithey]

please do not think I am judging you in any way I am not. My response to your post in born out of frustration with players who simply refuse to make little or no attempt to follow the service rule.

 

[Nuke Skywalker]

Sutanit Tangyingyong, our NexyUSA CEo taught me that in the club, we should ENCOURAGE our opponents to hide serves.

Why? Players hide serves when there are no umpires (like 99% of USA matches) and hide them even when umpire is watching, so this helps one better cope down the line.

I used to get really upset about such a thing at the club and would insist in strong terms they comply. I was in a bad mindset of winning, not training. I should use matches at club to learn or practice something, yet the competitor in me always wants to win, even in the smallest things. I have to deliberately think and change, lose the will to win for that match.

Now I get upset if playing conditions are too cramped and un-necessary stuff happens. I ought to use this as training too, since not every tourney has decent spacing with tables. I am in need of attitude adjustment myself.

This is actually an interesting take. Of course, encouraging someone to break the rules to help you train is kind of not helping the problem of service cheating...if you care about that. I find myself caring less....

Maybe I should learn to hide serves, but as a chopper, my 2 best serves ar BH and Tomahawk. And those are very hard to hide.

 

[NextLevel]

This is actually an interesting take. Of course, encouraging someone to break the rules to help you train is kind of not helping the problem of service cheating...if you care about that. I find myself caring less....

Maybe I should learn to hide serves, but as a chopper, my 2 best serves ar BH and Tomahawk. And those are very hard to hide.

BH serve is not that hard to hide. Just requires a higher toss followed by putting your arm in front of the contact,. The real issue is that good illegal serve hiding is not easy. The best servers who hide serves do things with their racket angle before and after contact that throw you off on what actually happened at contact. It's not a trivial skill at higher levels.

 

[kukamonga]

I remember recently this situation with timo boll where he said his opponent was hiding his serve.
so he trained a really special hidden serve for the next time they played, but in the end he didn't use it.
so even pros need to train a lot if they want to hide their serve, which is an unnatural thing to do because you are putting an object in front of the place where you want the ball to go.

let's face it, in the case of my club colleague most likely he was just trying to upset my rhythm.
he also uses other tactics for this like every time there's an edge ball he starts talking about how lucky I am so makes it look like I win points because I'm lucky.
same thing in general play he starts saying stuff that relates to my game and strokes and serves being super basic.
it's like he says it to himself but he's saying it out loud so he's also saying it to me.
stuff like "how can you miss that!!! he's just passing the ball!!!".
or as i said before "that's a rookie serve, you can't win in my division with that serve".
so the guy thinks he's like ma long or something lol.
he said he was in the junior national team.
he's a coach in the club.
this mr nobody comes from latin america, he doesn't seem that good and gives him a 3-0? brain overload!!!

 

[Der_Echte]

I would really suck hiding serves, not skilled at the arm or body hide.

I used to really get bent out of shape in clubs if opponents hid serves, it really burned me to lose points in matches from that, or cost me games/matches. But really, I had the wrong perspective, I was applying near 100 percent of my effort to just win, instead of trying to improve. Official tournaments are the time to lawyer up and get an umpire if opponent serving is fishy. I got bent out of shape in Super league too, that stuff is close enough to a tourney to worry about it.

It seems it is mostly the real old vets of TT who grew up with these serving do it, but kids do it too.

 

[Nuke Skywalker]

I would really suck hiding serves, not skilled at the arm or body hide.

I used to really get bent out of shape in clubs if opponents hid serves, it really burned me to lose points in matches from that, or cost me games/matches. But really, I had the wrong perspective, I was applying near 100 percent of my effort to just win, instead of trying to improve. Official tournaments are the time to lawyer up and get an umpire if opponent serving is fishy. I got bent out of shape in Super league too, that stuff is close enough to a tourney to worry about it.

It seems it is mostly the real old vets of TT who grew up with these serving do it, but kids do it too.

Kids definitely do it, which often makes me think they're coached to do it.

 

[Boogar]

Kids definitely do it, which often makes me think they're coached to do it.

So far i havent seen any kids hiding their serves. But i can figure kids wouldnt call eachother out. So some coaches might be tempted to show kids hidden serves as that would give them an advantage.

 

[NextLevel]

So far i havent seen any kids hiding their serves. But i can figure kids wouldnt call eachother out. So some coaches might be tempted to show kids hidden serves as that would give them an advantage.

Depends on the coach and culture. You are not in the same country or state as Nuke.