Ready position for receiving serve

[allencorn]

Gang,

I have a question about how the top pros get ready to ready to receive serve. Many seem to crouch way down to almost table level and appear to be staring at the server. I previously thought this was to get a better view of the ball to read spin. But, immediately after the ball has been tossed, they stand more upright to a more traditional sport ready position. What is the purpose of crouching so low initially - that doesn't seem to be useful for any type of reading of the serve, and would seem to be wasted motion and hard on the back?

Thanks.

 

[Archosaurus]

Meaningless habit from being low when practicing at young age and used to how it looks, is one thing I've heard.

Although you yourself can probably use it as a habit to get into the state of mind of being low and ready to move.

 

[songdavid98]

It's not a meaningless habit. It's more of a healthy one.


It's supposed to get you used to how low you're supposed to be. Also, it prevents you from being too close to the table.

This habit also keeps your body leaning forward, which is better for your balance, footwork, and technique.

 

[Archosaurus]

It's not a meaningless habit. It's more of a healthy one.


It's supposed to get you used to how low you're supposed to be. Also, it prevents you from being too close to the table.

This habit also keeps your body leaning forward, which is better for your balance, footwork, and technique.

True, but he is talking about the CNT style of leaning wwwaaayyyy in nearly to a 90 degree bend at the back.

You're not saying you need to go THAT low? Surely you just mean that it's a good habit to keep yourself low and not get lazy.

 

[songdavid98]

The Chinese aren't the only ones who do this.

You definitely don't have to STAY that low, but how far you need to go is debatable.

I would say it's to keep yourself leaning forward and balanced for the point, especially if the opponent serves long.

 

[allencorn]

True, but he is talking about the CNT style of leaning wwwaaayyyy in nearly to a 90 degree bend at the back.

You're not saying you need to go THAT low? Surely you just mean that it's a good habit to keep yourself low and not get lazy.

You are right - I don't see the a value in crouching that low, but if the CNT do it, there must be some value in it, I would assume. I just can't figure out what that value is.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

They are probably trying to see the contact which is usually hidden

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The lower the better
Ideally your vision should be net height, so that is why most receiver start in net height stance.
Regarding movement after the toss, that is more to follow the ball.

It is quicker/safer to go from a low to high position, than from upright to lower position.
You get more acceleration from low to high too (think of 100m sprint) and this is where you want to be - the ready position

 

[NextLevel]

It also helps you get into the habit of moving at the start of the point. You have more inertia to overcome from a still position.

 

[allencorn]

I'll buy the get you moving argument, probably even forward for a short serve, but that crouch still looks uncomfortable and there must be a better way. I don't buy the net height vision argument, because the eyes are not at net height when the racket contacts the ball - the position is much more upright by then.

I wonder if that has anything to do with Timo's and Jike's back problems.

 

[NextLevel]

I'll buy the get you moving argument, probably even forward for a short serve, but that crouch still looks uncomfortable and there must be a better way. I don't buy the net height vision argument, because the eyes are not at net height when the racket contacts the ball - the position is much more upright by then.

I wonder if that has anything to do with Timo's and Jike's back problems.

You probably don't play at a high enough level to value the benefits of being low in TT. If comfort was what the top players were looking for, looping and bending their knees and practicing drills all day long is the last thing they would be doing, trust me. Starting lower than you are going to end up is logical.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I don't need you to buy it, I aint selling it
As what nextlevel says, you probably don't play that that level to understand it.
Of course it is also perfectly fine for you to stand fully upfront, there is a theory to everything.
In the case of the pros, that is how they were taught and that is also how they play.
If they become coaches, they will do the same thing.

And I agree, if you are looking at something comfortable, then table tennis is the wrong sport for you

 

[Archosaurus]

Whoever doesn't understand the value of standing low and with the weight forward, lower and more forward than they think is at all comfortable, should do some fast paced multiball. You learn pretty fast, what is good and what isn't good.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Whoever doesn't understand the value of standing low and with the weight forward, lower and more forward than they think is at all comfortable, should do some fast paced multiball. You learn pretty fast, what is good and what isn't good.

multiball isn't comfortable though

 

[Archosaurus]

multiball isn't comfortable though

Exactly. As soon as a player used to standing straight gets out of that comfort zone, they start to understand some basic things.

 

[TTFrenzy]

I'll buy the get you moving argument, probably even forward for a short serve, but that crouch still looks uncomfortable and there must be a better way. I don't buy the net height vision argument, because the eyes are not at net height when the racket contacts the ball - the position is much more upright by then.

I wonder if that has anything to do with Timo's and Jike's back problems.

No ones eye's are on net height, except a crouching mima ito who is 150 cm something like that. You still can judge better the contact point, tempo,arc of the serve if you are crouching. Just try it and you will definitely see a difference in ball judgement especially against a good server

Secondly, you cant move fast if ur legs are not bend in a certain angle (of crouse that depends on your height and body arm proportions). If you are too upright than needed, then how are you gonna retaliate on a long fast serve? And even if you do you wont recover fast even if u manage to topspin it

Yes after the contact point has been made they are more upright, but still in a crouching position, the upper body is always leaning forward but the back is not crouching as much. You observe that in this video

 

[allencorn]

I don't need you to buy it, I aint selling it
As what nextlevel says, you probably don't play that that level to understand it.
Of course it is also perfectly fine for you to stand fully upfront, there is a theory to everything.
In the case of the pros, that is how they were taught and that is also how they play.
If they become coaches, they will do the same thing.

And I agree, if you are looking at something comfortable, then table tennis is the wrong sport for you

TTT - I know that staying low is important. Perhaps comfortable was a poor choice of words. Some thing like "awkward" or "inefficient" might have been better. I see now that the starting position of being quite low, and then rising a bit as the toss is in the air gets you moving and probably a bit more relaxed and ready to react quickly to the ball.

I also wonder if it might be partly a concentration thing, as staring at the ball before the serve motion may help focus on the ball throughout the rally.

It could also be the start of CNT Jedi mind tricks. Staring at the ball and telling it "You are mine - you will obey me".

 

[allencorn]

No ones eye's are on net height, except a crouching mima ito who is 150 cm something like that. You still can judge better the contact point, tempo,arc of the serve if you are crouching. Just try it and you will definitely see a difference in ball judgement especially against a good server

Secondly, you cant move fast if ur legs are not bend in a certain angle (of crouse that depends on your height and body arm proportions). If you are too upright than needed, then how are you gonna retaliate on a long fast serve? And even if you do you wont recover fast even if u manage to topspin it

Yes after the contact point has been made they are more upright, but still in a crouching position, the upper body is always leaning forward but the back is not crouching as much. You observe that in this video

Thanks for the video. The point in time I am interested in is between the beginning of the toss and the contact of the ball. The receiver seems to "rise up" from a very low position to one of a more traditional ready position during that time. At the beginning of the video, the receiver is quite bent at the waist, almost with his back parallel to the floor. As the serve is tossed, he stands more upright, but still in a knees bent, leaning forward posture. He also moves forward a bit before the ball is struck, as he is readying for a banana flip return. I find that starting position and the body movement during the time the ball is in the air fascinating and very instructive.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It looks like Table Tennis Tony and NextLevel have given the important information.

Good to see that Archo is still throwing out what ever first comes to mind, even if it is completely off. And that, these days, when someone supplies good info that refutes his original theory, he realizes he may not know what he is talking about and figures out when someone else does know. That is much nicer than back when he would argue crazy hypotheses to the bitter end against people who actually knew what they were talking about. One step at a time, Archo, you are getting more mature and I think that is cool.

The eyes net height, Tony knows what he is talking about. Trying to get there to start is really valuable to seeing the table/ball/depth, especially judging the difference between short and half long and when you have to get over the table or when you can drop your racket below the table. And, yes, these guys see clues about what is coming from the setup of the racket on the toss.

And as I see it, NextLevel's information about how this process of dropping low and rising with the toss helps them get moving and move to where the serve is: that is the other central issue.

It is much harder to start moving from a still position than to move to where you need to if you are moving a little already before you need to move.

That movement timed to the toss of the ball helps them move to receive the serve faster, wherever the serve is placed.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[allencorn]

It looks like Table Tennis Tony and NextLevel have given the important information.

Good to see that Archo is still throwing out what ever first comes to mind, even if it is completely off. And that, these days, when someone supplies good info that refutes his original theory, he realizes he may not know what he is talking about and figures out when someone else does know. That is much nicer than back when he would argue crazy hypotheses to the bitter end against people who actually knew what they were talking about. One step at a time, Archo, you are getting more mature and I think that is cool.

The eyes net height, Tony knows what he is talking about. Trying to get there to start is really valuable to seeing the table/ball/depth, especially judging the difference between short and half long and when you have to get over the table or when you can drop your racket below the table. And, yes, these guys see clues about what is coming from the setup of the racket on the toss.

And as I see it, NextLevel's information about how this process of dropping low and rising with the toss helps them get moving and move to where the serve is: that is the other central issue.

It is much harder to start moving from a still position than to move to where you need to if you are moving a little already before you need to move.

That movement timed to the toss of the ball helps them move to receive the serve faster, wherever the serve is placed.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

To Deep Space,

Thanks. I wondered about serving "tells" assessed from the very beginning, and I am sure paying attention to the pre-serve stance and set-up reveals some valuable clues. I also wonder if moving during the serve actually helps with perception. The receiver often seems to be on the move, not only from the bent over crouch, but also stepping into the table a bit, or drifting towards the center from initially being way to one side. I recall hearing that baseball outfielders have an easier time tracking fly balls accurately if they are moving rather than standing still. I wonder if the same is true for judging the serve in table tennis.