Hurricane Long V vs Viscaria

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
May 2020
617
220
970
Hello everyone,

This is a long one, so buckle up.

I wanted to share my experience with my DHS Hurricane Long V.
I will compare it to the old (5,7mm) Viscaria, since it's the only other carbon blade I have, and I have a lot of experience with it.
I mention the Viscaria because it's very popular, and at this point, it's the benchmark.

Regarding rubbers, I put on my old Butterfly Tenergy 05 (2.1) and old Donic bluestorm Z3 (2.1), boosted both of them with 2 layers of baby oil and let them dry for about 12 hours, it wasn't nearly enouph, the mojority of the oil didn't get absorbed and the rubbers didn't stick. So I cleaned off whatever oil wasn't fully absorbed and expected it to feel like cr@p.

To say I was surprized would be an understatement. Even with me effing up the rubbers, the blade played really well.


- Feel:

The feel of the Long V was much softer than the Viscaria, understandably so because of the softer outer wood and inner arylate carbon. Weirdly enough, it didn't have many vibrations, it was pretty stiff. But again it makes sense because it's a thick blade, 6mm while Viscaria is 5,7. (the updated Vis is 5,8)


- Dwell:

The blade had bundles of dwell, a lot more than the Viscaria. You could feel the ball just sink into the blade and not worry for it shooting off like you do with the Viscaria.


- Weight:

Weight is a weird one, I didn't measure the weight of either blade before the gluing. The Long V feels pretty much the same exact weight, but has it more towards the head. If I had to guess, I would say the weight is between 85 and 90 gramms.

**Update: weight of long v is 90 and viscaria is 88.


- Sweet spot:

I would say that it's almost identical. The long V has a taller sweet spot because it has a longer head, while the Viscaria has a wider sweet spot for the opposite reason.


- Forehand:

Due to the head-heaviness of the blade and with the combination of the soft outer wood and inner carbon, I haven't played with a better topspin machine, no matter how you hit the ball, it would just bite, grip and spin, bite in a good way, incredible feeling. Countering on the table was effortless because of the dwell and dirrect nature of the blade. Mid and long distance was also perfect, I have nothing to add here, just perfect.


- Backhand:

Here's where it gets interesting... You would expect the backhand to be weaker because of the head heavy nature of the blade and yes it was, compared the the Viscaria that has the perfect balance, even with heavy rubbers. You needed more wrist power to get a good consistent brushing and clear contact, but once you do it, it felt the same with the forehand. It does need a shorter stroke, but due to the head-heaviness, you could use that weight as sort of a catapult. So overall it was good, but not perfect. If you do a bigger motion, the backhand gets weak and looses clear feel.


- Speed and Control:

Speedwise, I would say that it is somewhere around the Clipper, faster when you put power and activate the carbon, but slower when blocking, unless you punch the blocks/drives or play around the net. That's because of the combination of soft top play and inner carbon. Due to the thicker construction the Long V gets faster than the Viscaria at the top, but you need to put a bit of effort to get it. It does maintain better control at the top speed than the Viscaria too.


- Throw angle:

The throw angle is medium while Viscaria's is medium high. Allows for better counters and close to the table play. The Viscaria is better from a distance and has a better backhand, due to that throw, also opening up from backspin take less effort. On the other hand the Long V can rip through the ball at opening up backspins due to the lower throw. When not ripping the ball, it will need better brushing, or a slightly more open bat angle.


- Push/receive/backspin:

The Viscaria is far more bouncy and reacts more violently when receiving, it's easier to throw the ball out or into the net since you have less time on the ball, that's the effect of a harder outer ply and the outer carbon. When playing offensively though the Viscaria has an upper hand because of its higher throw and more crisp feeling, also its more aggresive bite. Thanks to these attributes, the Viscaria can produce deadly open ups and flicks.


- Serve:

Serves are totally different, Long V has more dwell and slower speed so it's easier to serve with more spin and more accurately. On the other hand the Viscaria is better for diceptive serves since it needs a snappier move to put spin.


- Playstyle:

The Long V needs bigger moves to pull the power out of the inner alc and core. Countering and aggressive play are needed to make use of the blade. The Viscaria is another beast entirely, it likes mid distance rallies and spinny open ups. It needs explosiveness to use the shorter dwell to its full extent. Due to the shorter dwell, it can also counter like a beast and the added power and feel only help it.

- Combinations:

From what I've understood the Viscaria plays well with all sort of rubbers. Hard rubbers like the Dhs Hurricane 3 and soft like the Donic Bluestorm Z3 behave perfecly and have very good feel. The Long V is a bit different. Hard rubbers fit this blade like a glove, medium also work very nicely, I'm guessing it's due to the soft outer ply. Soft rubbers have a problem though, they make the blade feel mushy, they don't feel bad, they just need a stronger, a much crisper contact to feel proper. It feels like in order for the blade to feel accept the soft rubber, you have to use more power and make consistent use of the sponge. This can be avoided with the Viscaria since just a light brush will be more than enough to engage the blade.


- Conclusion:

If you want to play attacking topspins and dominate the game with your forehand from close or even distance, control backhand and power over spin, the Long V is made for that. If your game is spinny, want a balance between forehand and backhand, spinny first topspin and mid distance looping and rallies with both wings, the Viscaria is better. Shorter dwell helps with countering heavy spin and allows for shorter more explosive moves, hence the backhand balance. The Long 5 has more dwell and can use the opponent's spin and power to give it right back to your opponent. The longer head and slimmer handle throw the weight towards the head of the blade and forces a longer and smoother tecnique. The Viscaria has a perfect weight balance and a compact head that allows for short moves and more use of the wrist. The balance doesn't get thrown off even with heavy rubbers and allows for a sharper backhand.


I trully hope this was useful, it's not complete of course, but it should be good enough for most players looking for a dirrect comparisson.
 
Last edited:
says regularly shitposting
says regularly shitposting
Member
Jul 2019
347
212
779
a swordsman believes in his sword

A good swordsman believes in his experience and skill. The sword makes not the swordsman.

ma-76076-WEB.jpg
 
This user has no status.
I am happy with two DHS blades i have mainly because of their blades handle, i feel it is smooth and comfortable more than Butterfly blades, i had or used like 3-4 butterfly blades and although they are each different but none were as nice as DHS ones, and that alone made me to just stick with DHS, but i got HH3 and L5X, no L5 or Bo or other DHS blades, so i don't know if the feeling is a big factor in TT equipment and play style too.

In the clubs i went to i see many people using Viscaria over DHS blades, majority are Butterfly or Yasaka or Nittaku, it is like BTY is 70% and Yasaka is 40% and Nittaku is 35% while DHS is barely 5%, in two clubs i only saw 3 or players only with DHS out of over 200 players beside me of course, in fact in the club of my city where 4 players are coming to play one of them is using Viscaria for years and playing like super wall in front of you, but he upgraded to super ALC Viscaria and he never look back, his style is really like a pure art, but he is not being offensive in so many points, he just placing balls perfectly away from players making them move all directions and attack when needed, but that isn't enough against stronger players, he lost mostly to those with stronger top spin and loopers, he is just playing by the table, so opposite than what you mentioned about that Viscaria is amazing for mid to far from table.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2022
321
333
848
Thanks for the comparison. My buddy has an upgraded HL5 that I played with. It was super fun. The vibration/feel was incredible. I struggled with the backhand tho but my backhand always needs work lol. For now, I just switched to using a Chinese rubber on my forehand on my vis and it’s working out well so far
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
May 2020
617
220
970
Thanks for the comparison. My buddy has an upgraded HL5 that I played with. It was super fun. The vibration/feel was incredible. I struggled with the backhand tho but my backhand always needs work lol. For now, I just switched to using a Chinese rubber on my forehand on my vis and it’s working out well so far
Nice dude, work on your bh, the viscaria is a beast💪
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2022
27
6
38
I wonder why the Viscaria type is more popular (from my perception) than the Innerforce limba type.

Most player start with some kind of an allround blade. Mostly with soft outer layers. Later on most player develop their forehand earlier and faster than their backhand.

Even on higher level the forehand is still much more lethal than the backhand.

Still Viscaria and it's variants seems to be the most popular blades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jammmail
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2011
1,020
1,062
2,650
I wonder why the Viscaria type is more popular (from my perception) than the Innerforce limba type.

Most player start with some kind of an allround blade. Mostly with soft outer layers. Later on most player develop their forehand earlier and faster than their backhand.

Even on higher level the forehand is still much more lethal than the backhand.

Still Viscaria and it's variants seems to be the most popular blades.
Outer composite blades just have more easily accessible power. To access the power of the ultimate HL5, the W968 for example, you need to put an obscene amount of power into the shot. When you do, the shot created is intoxicating. The issue with that is that one, it's non-linear so when you do access its power it's difficult to control as it goes very fast. Two, if you attempt but fail to access its power, due to the non-linearity the shot will feel mushy and slow and easily tanks into the net. The same behavior shows in blocking, where if the incoming shot has good power the block can easily go long. In order to make blocking more controllable you need to use active blocks, which makes every block engage the blade and thus creating a more consistent behavior. But of course, that also requires good technique.

This is why if you watch Chinese pros' channels, they generally recommend that amateurs should not use the 968. You need to be active with both attacks and defense, and the technique and power requirement is just too much even for many pros. Those Chinese pros (ex-CNT players) all have access to 968, but many choose outer composite blades instead for this reason.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
May 2020
617
220
970
I wonder why the Viscaria type is more popular (from my perception) than the Innerforce limba type.

Most player start with some kind of an allround blade. Mostly with soft outer layers. Later on most player develop their forehand earlier and faster than their backhand.

Even on higher level the forehand is still much more lethal than the backhand.

Still Viscaria and it's variants seems to be the most popular blades.
I think it has to do with the fact that some of the European greats have used these blades. Timo is a living legend and has shaped European table tennis like no other player before him. His influence is much greater even than Waldner, so it makes sense that his equipment would be so popular, he has been the face of Butterfly for over a decade and will continue being for a while.

Seeing the success of players like Zhang with Viscaria, Timo with the Spirit, and a bunch Chinese and European players using variants of them, people started using them and nowadays they work really good with the plastic ball too. So manufacturers keep making them, and they keep selling.

As for why the pros themselves started using them in the first place, they tried many things and they found what worked the best, and since many have similar playstyles, they all ended up using similar equipment. Same with rubbers. 10 years ago Tenergy was the only rubber that was really viable at the top level, so much so that players from other companies also used them. Ovcharov is a good example with Donic.

Another thing is that outer carbon with hard surface, like koto, blade works better with medium and soft rubbers, while inner carbon with soft surface, like limba, work better with hard rubbers.

The medium gen, Ovcharov, Franziska, etc, have bigger moves than the old gens, Waldner, Timo, etc. Softer blades support longer more powerful strokes, while harder blades shorter, more snappy strokes.

Also when hybrids became a thing, many switched over to inner soft. Timo is kind of an exception...
 
  • Like
Reactions: H3R0 and jammmail
Top