table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

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I just find it absurd that we judge someone we didn't see play (even if his videos are useful, according to many). And in the same time we take someone who we saw play, like NL, a good amateur player whom I could find dozen players better than him only in my club, as a REFERENCE.

But at least we know where NL is at. You know he plays. You know he practices. If someone is one of those dozen players better than him, you can take his teachings for what it's worth.

At least he's being completely transparent.
 
@Suga D

I'm not hating at all. I watch all of EmRat's videos and I'd rather he keeps posting them. I was really surprised when I saw him here and I welcome him.

You don't need to attribute negative things to me whenever I disagree with you. I just want EmRat to post some video of himself, so we can be sure that he has an idea what he's talking about.




I just don't understand how someone could have very low ability in what they're teaching but still be adept at it. How do they know what to teach and how?

I don't mean the 60-some year old coach who used to be in top shape and a stellar performer and is now not nearly as good as their students but has good knowledge from experience: I mean someone with truly 3/10 ability and a lot of theory in their head.



And please, stop the plagiarism accusations. I don't even know what NL really thinks about all this. All I know is that he also prefers that people post video to demonstrate their ability, so we know where they're coming from.

EDIT:

Wow, even the forum software is NL-biased. He literally has more value than a single user apparently. :rolleyes:

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You can also just try it out.. and if it works for you and improves your game then keep doing it, if not then don't. Just because every single detail this guy or whoever else says isn't correct it doesn't mean all their advice is bad. You still need to be critical and this applies to everyone really, even top coaches as some of the ways they teach things might not apply to all people.

The problem is that when one tries to incorporate something in their game and/or change technique, the positive effect appears after at least several months of dedicated training at best, if they did everything right. Moreover, proper technique may feel awkward at first but yield results in the long run. So it is very difficult to judge whether things will work out. Therefore, it is too dangerous to try some random "advice" on the internet and stick with it -- it may result in new bad habits and lost time and effort.
 
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The problem is that when one tries to incorporate something in their game and/or change technique, the positive effect appears after at least several months of dedicated training at best, if they did everything right. Moreover, proper technique may feel awkward at first but yield results in the long run. Therefore, it is too dangerous to try some random "advice" on the internet and stick with it -- it may result in new bad habits and lost time and effort.

This really depends on the person, what level they are at and what changes are being made. I agree but as I said if you're critical about what you choose to apply then you won't be making this mistake.
 
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A lot of people are speaking past each other here.

I watch a lot of EmRatThich's stuff. Some of it is good stuff, most of it is good marketing. Plenty of it is stuff that when I see it, I can place it in context, but I still sometimes wonder about the level of the player and the experience of the coach.

The labelling of what he says as "Chinese Secrets" is marketing - I can live with that.

His first video on Chinese blades/equipment vs. European blades/equipment came across as extremely fishy, given that Zhang Jike uses a Viscaria and Alexander Shibaev uses a Korbel. OF course, there are Chinese players who use wooden blades and Europeans who use composites so the point is not to get semantic. But the point is that beyond the marketing, I didn't like the stereotypical nature of some of the claims.

There was also a recent video where to illustrate the differences between European (or old or whatever) looping philosophy and Chinese looping philosophy, he used video of a player I have never heard of and compared it to top Chinese players. Again, good marketing, but dubious approach to the issue. While the Chinese have issues with the technique of many top European or Japanese players, these issues are far more subtle than the caricature that I was seeing in the video.

Carl's point is that a lot of "Chinese secrets" are part of standard European teaching. This of course makes sense as many top Chinese players went to Europe to build their games and bring ideas back to China (Wang Liqin and Kong Linghui being the most notable)! And of course, many of the top European players trained in China at some point in their lives so none of their games is purely Chinese or European.

There was an article I read recently on coaching vs. playing and I think it was about soccer or tennis or some other sport. Of course good coaches don't have to be great players. But good coaches have to demonstrate some ability to understand the level they are communicating to or show some experience of having coached players to that level. I am still paying my dues as a coach. I think most of the people here that I give advice to know my audience and I do not pretend to go around coaching 2200 players. And there is a specific reason why I even coach as I have explained before - I did most of my learning and training at the age of 34 with autoimmune joint disorders so I tend to remember the things I learned to get better and communicate them more easily than someone who got good at a young age and doesn't know how or why he got good in relative terms. Most coaches will simply train you how they were trained, and very few have experience dealing with adult learners in a way that specifically addresses the adult's needs. I worked with a coach who trained 2 adults to over 2000 USATT and has another two on the way - he got to his best level mostly learning as an adult. I also worked with an international coach who worked with amateurs in Australia as well as the Australian national team and who coached and played in Europe. So it is my understanding of those ideas I share with people from the perspective of someone who dealt with the issues adults face trying to improve. Some of my stuff is not even agreeable to a serious player. But it is the way I see it.

I have seen interesting stuff in EmratThich's videos. But I think that in general, people should be fairly transparent about who they are or their level of play when presenting or making claims on the internet. This helps us place things in context. We are not trying to be pros, so a lot of stuff is context specific. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing because of context.
 
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@Suga D

You don't need to attribute negative things to me whenever I disagree with you. I just want EmRat to post some video of himself, so we can be sure that he has an idea what he's talking about.




I just don't understand how someone could have very low ability in what they're teaching but still be adept at it. How do they know what to teach and how?

I don't mean the 60-some year old coach who used to be in top shape and a stellar performer and is now not nearly as good as their students but has good knowledge from experience: I mean someone with truly 3/10 ability and a lot of theory in their head.

Hahahaaa. Sometimes one can see quite good if a person knows what he's talking of or if he is just fooling around.

The real interesting thing is that especially you with your heap of uploaded vids is asking for a vid.
That sort of makes you look like someone's little puppy.
I don't have to attribute those things to you. You keep doing that all by yourself...
[Emoji6]

Even though i get what you're saying and what NL has been elaborating on above.
It makes sense in a way, but on the other hand in Germany to be able to get a certain coaching license degree you have to play at a certain level and for the highest license you would have to be playing on a real good level and a federation like HTTV for instance has to agree to this and make a suggestion to the DTTB as well.

And please, stop the plagiarism accusations. I don't even know what NL really thinks about all this. All I know is that he also prefers that people post video to demonstrate their ability, so we know where they're coming from.

EDIT:

Wow, even the forum software is NL-biased. He literally has more value than a single user apparently.

Aww, c'mon Arch, i remember a guy who kept elaborating about whip-mechanics on the day he first time heard that word related to TT. Do i need to say more?
[Emoji6]

Anyhow, i wasn't trying to make you look stupid, but rather was trying for myself to classify the value of your post.

But i find it totally ironic that it's you who's been asking for a vid.
:)

[EDIT: sorry Buddy, but you've pushed one of my buttons and i really had a frigging hard monday.]
 
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I would rather take advices from an anonymous coach if his videos did help me than taking advices from a mediocre player that happens to be more passionate about the sport than me.

How do you know they are not one and the same when you have never seen the player play? There is one player who is a respected internet coach who I personally know whose highest official tournament level is USATT 1500. He has trained a 2100 player and still does. People love his internet posts. I find them to be misleading but helpful. But he could easily write the same stuff that EmratThich is writing. That is what he does.
 
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How do you know they are not one and the same when you have never seen the player play? There is one player who is a respected internet coach who I personally know whose highest official tournament level is USATT 1500. He has trained a 2100 player and still does. People love his internet posts. I find them to be misleading but helpful. But he could easily write the same stuff that EmratThich is writing. That is what he does.
I've seen you play and from what I saw + your passion about the sport I guess your advices are to be considered. But thats it, I don't think you have the right nor the level to be judging other people stuff. I know for a fact that the guy takes some time to edit these videos and many of them helped me one way or another.
 
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I don't think there is any need to judge anyone. I know this guy who was in his 70s last time I saw him. He can't play great. He is pretty old. He can't move well. But he can coach. He coaches great. Even though, a lot of the time when he is coaching, he is sitting and watching and making corrections to both players as he sets up training drills. And if you watch him coach, you can tell he is a decent level coach. And when the students don't get a principle and he gets up and demonstrates, you instantly know he knows what he is doing even though he can barely walk.

I would love to see video of EmRatThich doing what he does best. No need to judge or disrespect. Everything I have heard from him is solid info. I just see he always uses top level players to demonstrate his info. And I would love to see him coaching and his students learning in action.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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How do you know they are not one and the same when you have never seen the player play?

Probably for the same reasons why we keep detecting Sebas' his different appearances.
[Emoji6]
But certainly you're right, there is no 100% guarantee, someone even could be just uploading some vids from a random player and pretend it's him...
[Emoji6]
 
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I've seen you play and from what I saw + your passion about the sport I guess your advices are to be considered. But thats it, I don't think you have the right nor the level to be judging other people stuff. I know for a fact that the guy takes some time to edit these videos and many of them helped me one way or another.

I know you don't but a national level coach encourages me to coach and monitored my work both online and when he was in the USA. I think you know whose opinion I will take on this issue. Thanks.

He doesn't agree with everything I say but he finds what I do good enough not to find it misleading and believes I provide something of value to many amateurs. Coaches pay their dues. I am paying mine.
 
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I've seen you play and from what I saw + your passion about the sport I guess your advices are to be considered. But thats it, I don't think you have the right nor the level to be judging other people stuff. I know for a fact that the guy takes some time to edit these videos and many of them helped me one way or another.

Glad to hear that his videos helped you. But you also need to understand that while his videos might have helped YOU, the advice that he is presenting can be dangerous for lower level players. Let me give you a specific example:

I have always swung the racket with a very tense arm, even though I thought I was relaxed enough. So, the first time I read that you were supposed to tighten the grip pressure at impact (as EmRat suggests in the video), my swing went from a little too tense to extremely tense. I was convinced that tightening up at impact was an important factor in a good forehand loop, when in reality what I needed to do was relax more at impact.

Now, the target audience for EmRat's videos are Youtube users. How many Youtube users do you think have awkward, tense swings versus relaxed swings with good whip mechanics? How many Youtube users will really benefit from his advice to increase the grip pressure at impact? A very, very small percentage in my opinion.
 
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Archosaurus points out the psychological factor all though he misunderstood what I was saying. I didnt evaluate LGL with 3/10 that was just an example, LGL himself said that he was poor in his rallying abilities but compensated with his serve receive, the opposite was kong linghui, simple serves but fantastic at rallies.

Yes credibility does matter to the point that you have proven or not yourself. but this does not take away the utility of a good advice no matter the credits of the coach.

I have experienced this myself, advising a team mate "dude you are too tense and impatient with your strokes" he didnt pay much attention. Then our provincial/national coach came by and told him the same thing with different words and he listened to him like a small child pays attention to the "godlike" teacher feeding him with expert advice.

I was annoyed but I understood the situation, before that I misunderstood my mate's character as "stubborn".

If carl or nextlevel or anyone in here gives advice to 100 players and then the same advice is given by LGL,rosskopf,tony,matt hetherington or whatever coach with credits then most likely, a much higher percentage of players will follow the advice of the credited coach although its the exact same thing!
 
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@TTFrenzy

I would have to disagree.

There's a difference between concrete, real knowledge, and abstract knowledge. Even LGL with his "pathetic" rally skills knows a hell of a lot about rallying and he can perform it at a very high level as well. He doesn't have 3/10 execution.

Let's take economy and business as an example:

Who would you trust more:

Someone who has read a lot of books on economy and business but has never done a proper deal in their life, or

Someone who hasn't read quite as much and doesn't know as much abstract theory but has put themselves out into the market with consumers who can say no, and done actual deals?

EmRat doesn't seem to be saying anything completely wrong and he can probably play at an okay beginner-intermediate level, but he has zero credibility IMO. We do not know anything about his game, and how he can apply his own advice, and where he got it from.


@EmRatThich

Carl was giving you a compliment: the things you've said are what many high level players have said. It was not a criticism.

His advices are good for beginners, that's all there is too it, if he cant apply them himself and simply copied other coaches/articles does not affect the utility of his videos. For all I know he maybe doing it for clickbaiting, his titles are misleading sometimes, this does not mean his analysis is not worthy. on the contrary
 
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I know you don't but a national level coach encourages me to coach and monitored my work both online and when he was in the USA. I think you know whose opinion I will take on this issue. Thanks.

He doesn't agree with everything I say but he finds what I do good enough not to find it misleading and believes I provide something of value to many amateurs. Coaches pay their dues. I am paying mine.

Guess what ? I think that too. I watched many videos of you and that coach already. My point here is that others can give value too. I personally watch videos and then see by myself if what has been said changed anything in my training, may be not all what he says is correct, but some of it is indeed useful.
 
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Glad to hear that his videos helped you. But you also need to understand that while his videos might have helped YOU, the advice that he is presenting can be dangerous for lower level players. Let me give you a specific example:

I have always swung the racket with a very tense arm, even though I thought I was relaxed enough. So, the first time I read that you were supposed to tighten the grip pressure at impact (as EmRat suggests in the video), my swing went from a little too tense to extremely tense. I was convinced that tightening up at impact was an important factor in a good forehand loop, when in reality what I needed to do was relax more at impact.

Now, the target audience for EmRat's videos are Youtube users. How many Youtube users do you think have awkward, tense swings versus relaxed swings with good whip mechanics? How many Youtube users will really benefit from his advice to increase the grip pressure at impact? A very, very small percentage in my opinion.

That should be enough if he is satisfied,others who couldn't find it useful are not forced to keep watching.
 
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Guess what ? I think that too. I watched many videos of you and that coach already. My point here is that others can give value too. I personally watch videos and then see by myself if what has been said changed anything in my training, may be not all what he says is correct, but some of it is indeed useful.

Musaab, what is your playing level? You have written a lot of stuff about me and my qualifications based in my videos. I am interested in your qualifications since you claim that I am obviously not qualified to judge someone even though I gave specific examples of what he said that was dubious and lead one to question his credibility. Maybe your sharing your playing level will help put everything into perspective. Thanks. I find that when people share their playing level and evidence of it, they tend to be far less rude.
 
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